I have read that by using fertilizers that are high in nitrogen, the onset of main crop figs can be delayed, and in some cases, this practice can cause poor flavor, under production, and inferior quality figs.

I have never read any discussions, except anecdotal, about the various N-P-K ratios/formulations in the popular fertilizers.  In the past, fertilizers having the 9-3-6 ratios of N-P-K were considered the most effective, but I have read that even this nitrogen level is still too high.

So...what fertilizers, if any, should we use?  I understand that no, one, single fertilizer will be efficacious with differing growing conditions, climates, etc. but surely, some information about high nitrogen being the cause of poor fig production can be posted....  Also, in ground vs. containerized growing will have different implications.

I have no clue as to where to look for this specific information.  I need up-to-date information backed by science...not..... "I swing a dead cat over my head and water the trees with 'Miracle-Gro' when the moon is full"..... 

We are smart and informed fig growers.  I'm positive that we know more than what's printed in outdated, books, and Garden Guides.  I had very good results by using organic, "ESPOMA Iron-Tone" (2-l-3) this past season, but is the best formulation?

I don't really want to know what you use....I want to know about the effects of fertilizers having too high a nitrogen content, and how it can affect fig production, etc.

Thanks for any help.


Frank


EDIT:  My personal opinion is that we grow our figs too "soft",  i.e. over-fertilized, too much water, and encourage too much lush, vegetative growth that very often remains soft and poorly lignified, by the end of the season.  Then these trees usually suffer from die-back, and all because the new wood was never properly hardened by the time that dormancy commences.  Too much nitrogen, too much food, too much water, too much TLC = poorly conditioned trees.

This above comment is just a theory, and I have no proof.  I grow my trees too "soft" and have been very lucky that my trees suffer very little from the freezing winters, but I also realize that I'm pressing my luck.  This coming season, I will try growing a few of my trees without all the bells and whistles, and see what happens.

Frank,
I don't have any specific information on the effects of High nitrogen ratios on the growth of container grown fig plants but the standard recommendations should apply, balanced fertilizer ratios with micro, macro nutrients and the correct pH range.
In discussions with another member, Baud recommended a ratio of approximately 2-1-2 (7-3-7) with micro nutrients. Many studies have been published on commercial fruit crops like Apples (Cornell Ag College), but not many have been published on figs, the result of high nitrogen on apples has been excessive vegetative growth and low fruit production.
Attached are several documents with fertilizer recommendations, they do not answer your question on high nitrogen, but have recommendations on their fertilizer ratios.

<edit>
Miracle Grow General purpose 24-8-16 is a 3-1-2 ratio...
Commercial 10-10-10 and 8-8-8 is a 1-1-1 ratio...
9-3-6 is also a 3-1-2 ratio...
increasing the P and or K would also change the N-P-K ratio. My fertilizer combination has approximately a 2-1-2 ratio (Miracle Grow and Espoma Garden-tone)

Thank you Pete for the input and links. 

Of course, any information is always interesting, and sometimes very useful. As you have acknowledged, most information is published in regards to commercial productivity of fruit trees.

I'm still looking for specific information about backyard production of figs, and fertilizer selection(s).  If Baud is correct than the "Espoma Iron-Tone" (2-1-3) comes in very close to the 2-1-2 ratio.



Frank

Frank,

For my stone fruits I dry farm; I.e. Water when close to wilt. I fertilize maybe once a year. I own a digital brix refractometer, and I can tell you that the effect on flavor and sugar content has been astounding. Peaches have gone from low-teens in sugar content to mid to upper 20's. I would assume these same principles apply to figs, and will be attempting it this year.

Tylt33-

Thanks....sounds interesting, especially if you will try it on figs.  Looking forward to reading about your results.

Growing the many scores of varieties can be fun, but growing them to reach optimal quality and production is better.  Reaching this 'fig nirvana' may be impossible, given all the different regions where figs are grown, but growing with a water deficit and low-nitrogen fertilizers may be a step to the right direction.  It's worth a try.

However, I think the jury is still out.


Frank

i used to use regular MG. then moved to blooming formula since Kathleen's Black wouldn't put on figs for longest time. then once it started putting on the figs, i changed back to old one. then i thought liquid soluble fert will leach out too quickly and started using espoma branded organic stuff.

from last handful of yrs growing fig, what seems to work is pushing growth during the spring with double dosing on MG and top fertilzing with slow release. then cutting down the fertilizer towards the mid summer. then cutting it off once the figs start to swell.

in 2014, i'll start taking out the trees as soon as the night temp hits 40, and start giving soluble MG, and top layer it with espoma stuff. then as the time goes on, i'll just do espoma with iron sup. cut all off as soon as figs on each tree start to swell.

i don't really think ratio really matters. they all seems to work pretty well.

Frank, I have always had great fruit production on my fig trees following the advice of the old Belleclare Nursery, which was to use a fertilizer with a high phosphorus content They recommended a 15-30-15. If you like to use organics, no problem. Just look for that high P number in the N-P-K ratio. N=nitrogen which helps promote lush vegetative growth. P=phosphorus, which helps promote fruit/flower production and K=potassium, which helps promote overall vigor. I have attached a page from an old Belleclare brochure: Caring for your fig tree for you to take a look at. For the rest of the brochure go here:

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/belleclare-brochurehandout-from-the-nursery-6189106

Frank
Good topic, I know some may be tired of hearing about the LSU Field Day but the info was so good that I am going to continue to replay some of the things I learned down there.  Dr Charley (Johnson) was not real big on use of fertilizers on figs, he said it is all about the soil and the fertilizers are an amendment.  The trees in the orchard down there had not been fertilized in 7-8 years.

I think that the fertilizer issue must also take into consideration the age/stage of the tree, in that a young tree might need more nourishment than an older established tree.  If you want lots of pretty leaves then you should fertilize, if you want figs, maybe not so much.  Regardless of what you do, it will always be a "shot in the dark" without an understanding of the soil envelope in which the particular tree resides.  Does the mean a soil test?, maybe, or not. if you keep real good records of your soil mix and are willing to invest several years you may get by.  Since I keep no records, and am extremely cheap, I choose to use a little fertilizer now and then and if it works I do it again next time I think they need it, this works for me.

I am not a collector, scientist, gardener, or farmer, just a guy that likes fig trees using what I have found that works in my little world.

BTW- I don't drink beer often, but when I do, I also use Osmocote.

Danny,

The LSU info you provide is solid, but it appears that advice only serves in-ground trees. If you grow in a pot without fertilizer, unless you change your (heavily supplemented) planting material annually or have significant roots that escape the pots and find nutrients in the soil, even a mature potted fig will struggle to grow, set and ripen fruit.

I have three fig bushes in ground that grow reasonably well. I apply a few gallons of compost around their trunks each fall and that's it. I put them on a drip in the middle of the summer this year after only hand watering in previous seasons. That should also help with growth. Now if I can only keep them from freezing back almost to the ground each winter, I'll be in a position to pick more than a handful of ripe fruit next summer.

My potted trees have been a mixed success story. I have had good growth from my rooted cuttings the post two years, some growing up to 3' plus, though most in the 2' range, which is a fairly decent growth rate for my short growing season. I could probably achieve more, but at the risk of lots of the "soft growth" Frank writes about. My more mature trees have not grown as successfully for me. Prior to this season it was, I believe, due to relying on liquid fertilizers, which I do not believe are as effective in my hot, arid summers. This year I threw on Espoma Garden Tone (3-4-4) in July and watched my suffering trees (I savagely root pruned almost all in February - too savagely) finally break out of the stasis that liquid organic fertilizers could not affect. I may experiment with Espoma Iron Tone with some of my trees that are duplicates to see if one formulation or the other seems more effective, but, as so many have noted here in the past, with different growth rates from one cutting to the next off of the same tree and even the same branch, I'm not sure if many/any conclusions can be drawn from such a comparison.   

With apologies to Frank for the mini hijack, let me add one lengthy note. As you (Danny) already stated, cultural practices matter. Among the most important for me is that if you live where summer temps are really hot, protecting your pots from direct sun will likely make a big difference, as much or greater than your fertilizer choice. Aridity may also be a factor here, the drier your hot summer climate, the more pronounced the effect on your suffering roots, I think. My nice growing rooted cuttings are set out in an area that receives between five and six hours of direct summer sun each day, though it comes between 9am and 3pm. The trees are closely clustered too, so the pots don't get much sun on their sides and the roots likely remain much cooler than my more mature trees, which are in full sun all day. Protecting those tree roots by burying the pots or otherwise covering/insulating the pots from the sun and heat will go a long way in maximizing tree growth and fruit production. 

Organic is the way to go.

When the ground thaws in late winter apply bonemeal for good root production. When first buds show up apply blood meal as a nitrogen suplament. Balence it out with a good top dressing of compost. That's all I do and my plants are happy, healthy, and very productive.

From what I have read, including from Baud, it seems to vary, baud recommends the 7-3-7 in the first 2 feedings of the year and a 6-3-10 for the last feeding, if you want more figs then do the first at 7-3-7 and the second and third 6-3-10.  This is for containers and is a slower release fertilizer.  Pons on the other hand makes recommendations for figs in ground in Mallorca.  As far as I could break it down based on his per acre instructions 1.5-8-2.5  is recommended in Catalana and he recommends 3-25-5 in Mallorca.  This is more based on soil tests.  

http://www.ivia.es/sdta/pdf/revista/frutales/17tema22.pdf  This is a Spanish paper but you can see on page 5 they are very detailed in their fertilizers and more than just NPK and they are in ground.  

My suggestion would be to observe what forums members are doing, and keep it as simple as you can.  High nitrogen creates vegetative growth and not fruit or flower production as you mentioned, but to me it seems that high potassium and high calcium  are the things that are needed for the figs to produced especially in pots.   That is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt, see what works for you. 

Just read through all the added remarks, comments, and careful observations.

I wish I could plant my trees in the ground just like the vast majority of fig growers, but I grow my trees in containers, and this causes problems, with heat stress, nutrition, nutrient leaching, drainage, cramped root systems, and many other cultural demerits.  If I could just bury my containerized trees into the soil,  so that the roots could do their "thing" I'd be a happy man.  But it is what it is, and I must grow my trees in large, 18-gallon tubs.

The "Espoma Iron-Tone" that I used this season did not cause my trees to push out excessive growth....I think.  I will continue to use this organic, slow-release fertilizer for the next few seasons, and see if it makes a difference.  I know this:  The leaves on my trees never looked better, and had great substance.  All my trees went into dormancy without the ugly rusting which the leaves suffered in the past years.

I appreciate all the input and interest.


Frank

One of the well known nurseries mentioned once in a while on this site recommends Espoma Citrus Tone which is a 5-2-6.

Hi Bronx,
Cannot speak what works in other climates only here in my yard.

I'm one that uses the same high nitrogen fertilizer 24.8.16 for long time.
With no problem what so ever with fig production and getting them to ripen by seasons end and they taste marvelous or they dont stay in yard.

Most important
without proper management of plant no fertilizer will cure the problems plants will eventually present.


You seen my pictures.  ; )

@Steve/Huston
@Martin

Interesting..... organic, 'Espoma', and 'Miracle-Gro' (chemical formula)......


Questions always lead to more questions.....long story, short.....there is no answer.

Thanks to all.


Frank

I use 21-0-0  How is that for balanced?:)   Adding extra P or K to soils that don't need it is a bad idea.  It is bad for the plants and it is bad for the environment.   Those that grow in pots do need a NPK+micros fertilizer but for many that grow in the ground you are just throwing your money away and if anything hindering your plants growth.   You have to know your soil.....the soil matters the plants are just an after thought.   My plants need Nitrogen so they get it......they do not need P as our native soil is high in it and the K comes from the mulch they are surrounded deeply in.  If the plants get low in K they will clearly show it so it is easy to manage.  

Bump for discussion on Belleclare's use of lime and fertilizing figs

Wow....forgot all about this thread and subject of fertilizers.

Please see the "EDIT" in my original, #1 posting.... and, also post #12.....  Just as an update, as some on this forum already know, mostly every one of my trees died-to-the-roots over the last, bitterly cold, winter.  I had one surviving tree, which was stored in my shed....a 5 ft tall "Black Mission".  However, the new leaves are so badly infected with FMV that I will toss the tree right in the garbage, where it belongs.  It ain't worth growing, and keeping it around my new, tissue-cultured trees, is a risk I won't take....just in case the virus can jump from one tree to another.

That said, I have been using "ESPOMA, IRON TONE" + granular limestone as a top dressing.  The trees are very healthy looking and the leaves have a deep dark-green color from the added iron. 

At this point I ain't gonna mess with success.  The tissue-cultured "Black Mission" and "Olympian" (..."look ma, no FMV virus"...) have been doubling in size each month, and I expect to see some fig buds next year, at this rate.

Happy growing, and thanks for the interest.  Each of us growers will have their own fertilizer preferences, but I like to keep things as simple as possible.  Everything I need is in one bag of Espoma....



Frank

Of note, the 9-3-6 ratio is recognized as optimal for foliage plants only.  That's why Dyna-Gro recommends their Foliage-Pro for plants grown for foliage only.  For fruiting or flowering plants they recommend their liquid Grow 7-9-5.

Wish i knew that earlier about the foliage pro. Ive been using that and protekt exclusively on my potted figs, lemons, and vegtables. Ill look into the liquid grow. Thanks