Hey all,
My local fig buddy recommended using 1/4 of a tablespoon of Miracle Gro diluted with 1gallon of water (he said some peeps prefer it stronger or may prefer use other plant foods other than MG but many seem to swear it works great so I am giving it a shot).
Think he said giving each growing plant 1 cup of that 3 times a week (in addition to the regular watering).

Anyway I was just curious, if peeps prefer the slow-release fertilizer stuff or Miracle Gro solution or other variations. (i guess some prefer different things based on cost as well). I heard you can get the Miracle Gro in very large bundles at Sams Club type places.

I am going to compare both this year and see how they turn out.

Thanks!,
Arian

Here's the deal with fertilizing that nobody told me, which almost killed several of my trees.

If you just rooted this year, as in, they were rooted over the winter a couple months ago, fertilizer is a big no-no.  If you must fertilize, you do not want to do anything more than a 1/4 strength dose, so take whatever is recommended on the label and reduce the concentration to 1/4th of whatever is asked, you should be fine with that.  I would also water in the plants before adding the fertilizer.

If you go half or full strength on newly rooted cuttings, you're liable to (and will) shock the plant, end up with droopy leaves and potentially full-on death by overdose.  That's what happened to me.

I personally use Superthrive on my plants, less crap in it than MG products (less salts).  I don't use mixes with slow-release fertilizer, so soluble fertilizer is easiest to administer.  I do put Osmocote (slow release) in my pots once a year.

My plan all along was to do 1/8 strength of 20-20-20, every 2 to 3 weeks. Build up to 1/4 strength by mid-July.

Scared to death of killing them.

Then start up my regular regiment of slow release and soluble fertilizer next year when I pot up.

Are we talking about trees in pots, trees in ground, or both?

__________
Dave   Zone  9/10 AZ

........pots.

Also FYI only, too much salt (MG fertilizer is 100% salts) on young roots that have not yet been harden off, (remember that roots need to be harden off too just like the fig leaves).....these salts can cause an osmotic effect that simply dries out the roots from dehydration.  On the other hand, "condensation" forming on those same roots (from temperature differntials) can cause damaging osmosis too. However, it is in the other direction and causes individual roots cells to "burst" and release food (cellular material) for micro organisms to grow upon......this can lead to root rot. Too, carbon dioxide can react with "condensate" to create an acid that will burn tender new roots that have not yet had time to "harden off".

The most convenient and effective fertilizer was the slow release I've been using. I apply it once and it does the trick.

What's good about slow release is there is no heavy concentration of salts "released" all at one time. The roots NEVER see a high concentration of those fertilizer salts.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

Same with organics Dan, but too much will still burn just not right away. Except for guano and chicken poo which are just as hot as MG. You spilled the beans finally! the ultra pure water causes the cells to burst! I thought you were saying that carbonic acid was responsible. It makes perfect sense to me now. Thanks.

Hey all,
Sorry missed all the posts, just got inside now. Just got done planting a lil' fence around my strawberry patch. darn rabbits (or crows, not sure which one is gettin more of the leaves :) )!
I think I'd prefer the one-and-done slow release for convenience as I may not have time with all the plants/trees in backyard to keep watering with MG (I'll still compare the two on similar plants this year just to see what happens) ...
but can you use the slow release on 2 month old cuttings (just in 1 gallon pots outside currently)? Seems like the consensis on Miracle Gro was it is bad on new plants or use very low 1/8-1/4 recommended concentration ... but wasn't sure if slow release is fine on new 1 gallon plants.

Also Bass, I was going to at least add the Slow Release today to the bigger 3 gallon plants. Is it supposed to be dug/mixed with top inch or so of topsoil in the pot (or just lay it on top)... I wasn't sure as I know figs have shallow root systems.
-Arian

The two greatest rules of fertilizing, which are accentuated when the plant is smaller, more tender, newly rooted, etc,., are simple:

1) Don't fertilize a dry plant.

2) A little fertilizer more often is better than a lot of fertilizer once in a while.

Condensation plus the carbon dioxide gas that is always released as the roots are forming......will produce an acid (if not vented away properly) that can BURN the outside "surface" of the cells that make up the root tissue. This can happen when the cells are new and have not yet had time to harden off. The roots will turn brown when this happens. This is one damaging mechanism........

Now, condensation by itself  is so pure osmosis will proceed in the direction of BURSTING some "tender" leaf cells or some "tender" root cells that have not yet had time to harden off. Condensation will actually enter "the cells" through the semi permeable cell tissue.  I am not talking about entering "the internal pipeline"......I am talking about entering the individual CELLS by going directly through the cell walls.  The entry of condensation into those cells by the process is known as osmosis. It raises the "osmotic pressure" of the cells to the point where it causes those individual CELLS to pop or burst. Burst cells spill out stored food material that mold, yeast, and bacteria can grow upon. Once those individual cells "get harden off".....they won't burst or pop. This is the second damaging mechanism.......

These are two entirely different mechanisms and two different concepts that I am trying to teach others.  These can affect your rooting methods and success rate. It can even affect even your newly potted Starts. This is why some of your newly potted figs will sometime just wilt and die on you for no apparent reason. Tap water WILL NOT do this osmosis or acid thing.........but, condensation sure can.

Condensation is a bad actor guys....(again I am not talking about perched water). You easily prevent high purity condensation from forming on the surface of your roots or on the surface of your leaves by rooting at a near constant temperature or keeping your new fig Starts at a near constant temperature just until the roots have harden off.....very simple to do.  Also remember.....I am talking about mechanisms that occur in INDOOR rooting methods (i.e. closed environment).....and not those used for OUTDOOR (i.e. open environment) methods. This is definitely not as complicated as it sounds. And if you understand what I am trying to convey.....you can become a better rooter!! If you are already satisfied with your rooting results please ignore this.......as this is not meant for you.
--------------------------

............now back to the topic.

When you have too high a concentration of "salts" from full strength MG for example, osmosis works in just the opposite direction. The salts will actually pull water "out of" the individual cells of the roots (again, not talking about the internal pipeline). This causes the individual root cells to become "dehydrated"......and they will simply die.

When you use a "slow relesase" fertilizer, the actual  "fertilizer salt" concentration is much too low to cause this dehydration (osmotic) affect.


Dan
Semper Fi-cus

Arian, 

I usually use fish/seaweed fertilizer at half strength once the plants are in the ground. My potting mix for rooted cuttings is a mix of perlite, vermiculite and sifted compost, maybe a little non Miracle Gro potting soil. The compost will provide what little nutrition the plant needs until they are set out. The soil in my yard is so poor(north Texas) that I have to dig the hole(twice as wide and a little deeper) and then back fill with compost around the plant. I experiment with a little root stimulator one on two plants and some with diluted fish/seaweed. Oh, and I mulch with garden fabric and deep wood chips. My improved Brown Turkeys are growing like Johnson grass(vigorously) while my Black Italian and Negronne were slower to take off. I read a lot and use this forum for info and then just rely on my observations of my plants. For me it's a new adventure. But I reckon if I can grow persimmons(got a 20 year old Eureka that thrives on little attention) I can grow figs.

winston61,

Yes, you sure can grow figs in an area where persimmons grow.

FYI.....here is a link to a discussion that I am having on the other fig forum right now concerning growing fig trees "in the ground". You might find this information helpful to you.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fig/msg052216352618.html?7

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

Thanks for the link.

Dan, last year I had exactly the problem that you describe about condensation. My cuttings rooted well, grew well, then,  suddenly they would wilt and die. I was sure that I wasn't over watering but some of the roots were brown. Sometimes it happened when I didn't pot up the rooted cuttings into larger pots, and sometimes it happened when I did.They were all out side on my porch with cooler night time temps. My losses were greatly reduced when I began watering with a very weak solution of Hormex root stimulater, but by then, all the cuttings left were a little older.How do you harden off the roots? 
Thanks for all the great info!

Time hardens roots Susan, time and proper development.

Yep, time and gradual exposure hardens off both roots to water and leaves to full sunlight.

What is so interesting about "condensation" (again not talking about perched or tap water here).........it can happen to you even when the outside atmospheric pressure changes!!!! And it can form almost instantly......take a piece of ice and place it on top of a plastic bin of cuttings in rooting cups and watch how fast condensation will form inside and on the under side of the bin cover.  You can see the same effect by placing an ice cube on top of a baggie which has cuttings wrapped in damp paper towels inside.  That liquid you see majically appear is "ultra pure" condensation..........and that stuff is worst than tap water.......becasue of its reverse osmotic affects and ability to turn acid if carbon dioxide is present. And damaging carbon dioxide WILL BE PRESENT if your rooting mix is not "airy" enough or you do not vent things properly (i.e. open bins and baggies daily)......becasue carbon dioxide gas is ALWAYS produced as new roots are created and your rooting method must allow for that gas to be vented.  And condensation can be formed inside of your rooting zone too (or rooting mixture).....if you use heat pads or allow sunlight to warm things up.....then cool later on at night.

The way you control it (i.e. prevent condensation from happening) is to keep things at a nice steady even temperature. When rooting by indoor (i.e.closed like in baggies or plastic bins) methods, you can avoid condensation problems by rooting at a near CONSTANT TEMPERATURE. The same applies to up potting of newly rooted cuttings and plants......keep the temperature nice an steady.  It really is a very simple concept and easily avoided......"condensation" is MUCH MORE DAMAGING than tap water or perched water. It is a chemistry thingy.........and that is my area of expertise and how I made a living. My fig rooting research results are quite clear to me on this issue. If you have problems with the baggie method or find some of your new fig starts are dying on you "for no apparent reason" come back and re-read what I have written in this thread. 

How long does it take for roots to harden? How much time? The plants that I had trouble with were no longer in covered bins but many were still in their plastic cups and peat pots. The potting medium was at least 3/4 perlite, and when I up potted still had a very high amount of perlite but less than 1/2.

That depends I think, but about 10 days is a good guess. Roots will elongate for a few days, then branch for a few, then harden after a few more, as long as nothing went wrong. Watering during this period can be a very bad thing, unless the fig is bone dry. I use moist mix and do not water for about 4 days after pot up now based on Jason's advice, it has reduced transplant shock for me. Withholding water seems to give the roots more time to grow and get a hold on the new medium and or heal the damage from potting.

I have been getting in the habit of going to the landscape supply places after a good rain and buying my potting mix.  The bags on top of the pile are almost always perfectly moist (heavy as hell, though) for potting.

There is no "too wet" guesswork if the soil is pre-moistened to the point of nice, fluffy cake.  You should not be able to squeeze the soil tightly and get any more than a drip or two of water out of it. 

But to add to the soil pre-wetting advice, I also feel like it's super important not to press, tamp down and compact the soil too much around the cutting, and not to 'water in' the cutting (this will leave it over-wet).  We all know how easily those tender roots will break... what could be worse than getting those gorgeous roots, only to break them off mashing the soil in around the cutting? 

I think this is just one of about a dozen mistakes people make on transplanting newly rooted cuttings.  Doesn't apply to anything more than 5-6 months old and decently rooted.

That's one of the benefits of using the baggie method......you almost never have to add water to your rooting cups since they root so fast once the root initials have formed.  And, one of the benefits of using those 3 inch round peat pots in those 12 oz plastic rooting cups.....you don't disturb those roots when you finally up pot them into their final potting soil.

Dan
Semper Ficus. 

Dan,

I just killed a cutting with the peat pot in the plastic cup.  The peat pot didn't fit snugly into the plastic cup and it got condensation between the two.  I guess I don't know what I'm doing.  It was outside under the carport.  I didn't use a bag first.

noss

Well, thanks for all the great info. That explains a lot for me. I'm going to try all these ideas  - Took my cutting box off of the floor and have much less condensation. I also cut much larger drainage holes in the bottom of the plastic cups thinking that it might help gas exchange. Thanks again!

Noss,  mine do the same thing at the bottom between the peat pot and the plastic cup. Untill I read Dan's posts about condensation I thougt it was creating a nice humid environment for the roots. I lost a lot of cuttings last year but I think that almost all of the cuttings that died went bad after I moved them outside. This year I will keep them in the house longer. And not water right after up potting.