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Momma Gopher dies :-))

LOL!! In my mind I can see Suzi all doll'd up as Annie Oakley,
rifle in hand! The wagons circling, "Watch out Varments! Suzi's on the war path!" :))
Way to go Suzi! LOL!! (glad I'm not a varment!) :)

Suzi, there is an old "organic" remedy for killing moles,
and voles that I remember hearing about many years ago that was reported to have good results.
(My grandfather's neighbor swore by this method)

Take 2 sticks of Juicy Fruit chewing gum from their wrappers, and roll them up like you would a rug.
(Be sure to wear exam gloves first, so you don't get any human scent on the gum)
And drop 2 sticks down into each mole hill, or active tunnel.

Moles, and voles love the smell and taste of Juicy Fruit gum but, can't digest it, or pass it.
There by effectively plugging up their "plumbing" causing them to die in a few days.

It may be worth the experiment?

Worth a try Dan!  I'll give it a whirl!!  And if it doesnt work, I'll go to plan B, and then C!  God forbid I go to plan D!!

Suzi

Quote:
We have no pets.  Have a gazillion kids and grandkids, and we have done our time (but we have a gazillion gophers and voles too)!  So I'm taking a chance on this one!  Just purchased 124 Castor Bean seeds from Ebay for cheap.  The plant is gorgeous, as are the blooms, but the seeds contain ricin which will kill an adult in a nano, and a gopher even faster!!  I will germinate 2 seeds at a time until one takes, and will surround that plant with chicken wire so no grand-kid or bird can get close.  We will let it seed, and handle the seeds with gloves.  Into each hole on our acreage will go one seed, and also under every deck.  Too many gophers, voles and rats, and too little time!  The entire property, well most is fenced, and if we accidently get a squirrel, a fox, a bob cat, a lynx, a raccoon, a possum, or any other destructive thing, won't bother me a bit!!

Because of the chain link fence (very sturdy) coyotes or dogs belonging to neighbors can't enter.



Suzi, a couple things.  First, I see Martin has already made it very clear that coyotes have zero problem scaling a fence.  I have seen them scramble up a 15' chainlink fence, which is actually very easy for them to scale, due to being able to gain a foothold in the links.  If there is something on the other side of that fence they want, they will simply jump right over - like chickens, small dogs, and their very favorite "meal", a housecat.  They routinely scaled my chainlink fence here in Vista every single day until I bought two large Australian Shepherds that now competently guard not only our property, but the surrounding area, as we run with them in the hills, and they go after the coyotes.  They have taken a few down, and now the coyotes steer clear of our property.  Plus, our kitty is not allowed outside ever.  So, if you're thinking your future chickens will be safe, they will not.  What we did for our chickens when we had them, was to put them in a large chainlink dog kennel that was completely enclosed, top, sides and bottom.  That kept out coyotes, weasels, foxes and hawks/owls.  Just a warning.  You really need a safe roosting place at night that is "bombproof", or you'll find out the hard (and sad) way.

Secondly, do NOT PLANT CASTOR BEAN PLANTS.  They are horrifically poisonous not only to dogs and cats, but also to humans, especially the peanut-sized ones.  Plus, the animals you're trying to kill won't eat the seeds - they know not to.  Just our dumb domestic pets and little kids will eat the seeds. Plus, they are on the California list of invasive plants.  Once planted, they spread and compete with our native flora.  You'll never get rid of the damned stuff. They will serve you zero purpose.  If you're trying to eradicate gophers buy yourself several MacAbee traps or the Black Box traps.  Find the main tunnel, dig down, set two traps next to each other, facing away from each other.  Bait with peanut butter.  Cover them up so the light doesn't shine through.  Continue to do this until your trap all your gophers.  Watch in the spring when tunneling activity goes up, and trap, trap, trap.  This is "organic" and it is much safer and far more effective. 

Patty,
Excellent post. Very well thought out and informative. Even though it was written to Suzi - thanks.
I've seen weasels go through chain link fencing, though. 
My solution to our coyote issue was to get a llama (5+ year old castrated) as they can turn a coyote into a bloody bath mat in about 30 seconds. 
I think Suzi should consider a Jack Russell terrier, although that just may be a coyote snack.
I used to have 10 1/2 foot electric fencing around my orchards and 4 Australian Shepherds but that didn't stop a lot of the critters as they have just tons of time and are very motivated.

Suzi,
Guineafowl will kill mice and small critters like voles but I think gophers are too large, but they'd be fun and they eat ticks and all sorts of bugs and weed seeds.

If you have zillions of ankle biters around aren't you worried a bird or some other critter might deposit one of these seeds where a kid could put it in their mouth and die - which is pretty permanent.

Having kept a lot of different animals and having had to deal with mice, rats, files, moles, etc. the one thing I can say with absolute confidence is that poison doesn't stay where you want it to -- it doesn't always kill what you want it to, the folks that sell it don't always give you all the facts and sometimes these omissions can be deadly to other living things you may not have even considered. Once you put poison into the equation it is never as easy to remove as you think it's going to be.

I also think, because CA is so litigious, I'd talk with your attorney before doing this. Not to over react but you are purposely putting out poison and if anything happens your insurance, etc. isn't going to want to stand with you.

I don't know how dangerous what you are doing is and I sure hope you know what risks you are taking. I wish you luck. And even though I haven't done my research so I'm talking out of my hat a bit here, but there's got to be a more effective and less dangerous way to solve this. Right?


Patty, you are welcome to come and see what we are dealing with.  I will use any ammo available!  I am listening to you, but you know I have a gun, boots, a hat, and good eyes,  and am no where anywhere, organic.  I'll put the seeds into the holes and pray they kill the gophers and the voles.

But I'll take a couple seeds and try to propagate.  I'll put those outside the fence and see what shakes.

I will keep you all posted if the gofer population goes down with the introduction of seeds.

No fear!  Property is fenced and we do not have one pet.

Suz



Hah! Suzi, you crack me up. But, truly, don't waste your time with the Castor Bean plant - the gophers are very smart and they will not eat the seeds, trust me.  Or, they'd all have died a permanent death eons ago. No wild mammals will touch it, they know it's poisonous. And, once it blooms and goes to seed, you're in trouble as it will spread unrelentingly, and you'll have a hard time getting rid of the damned stuff.  And, if a kid walked by and somehow decided to pick one of the cool pods and eat the seeds (and become ill or God forbid, die), you could be held liable.  Not worth it at all as it simply doesn't work.  And, a gun works great if you can shoot in the county area (some counties have restrictions as to the discharge of a firearm, like San Diego county does).  And, just thinking of your future chickens.  The coyotes will not hop your fence unless they think there's a meal behind it.  They will for sure make the leap after your chickens, though, once you get them.   And Michael, I forgot to mention we put up 4" snake fencing as well around the bottom perimeter of the coop enclosure to keep the snakes out.  It looks like Hardware Cloth. Probably kept the weasels out as well.  We don't have a lot of weasel activity here, but we do have a few.  We have our own resident Spotted Tailed Weasel here in my neighborhood - my neighbor feeds it cat food on their deck, and my other neighbor has managed to snap a photo of it.  We don't have anything in our yard the coyotes would be interested in, but the previous owners did - they had a small Schnauzer, and I think that's why the coyotes would hop our fence.  That and we had a cool spot in the lower yard that often had some standing water (our swales drained down to that section).  So, it was fast becoming a den.  Yes, they are wiley, one of the most opportunistic predators out there, and incredibly clever.  I just drove past one the other day that was patiently sitting on the curb, waiting for me to drive by.  I watched him in my rear view mirror.  He watched me drive by.  Then, he looked the other way, back my way and then proceeded to trot across the street.  Somehow they have been able to learn not to cross in front of cars.  I have never yet seen one dead on the street either here or up in Garner Valley.  I always wondered about that, and now I am sure that they can learn to avoid cars to some degree.  That is really amazing.  Not sure even a dog can do that on its own.  Suzi, I agree with Michael on this - not a safe thing to do, and it's not going to get you what you want.  If you are wanting to poison gophers, there is gopher bait you can put down the holes.  The safer thing with this, is the bait is usually warfarin and has a quick antidote, if someone's dog or cat were to get into it, if you can get the pet to the vet quickly enough.  Otherwise, you best bet are traps.  If you were to call an exterminator, this is what they would do for you - set many, many opposing Macabee or Black Box traps.  It might be worth calling an exterminator and seeing what they would charge to really do it right, and then it would just be a matter of keeping up with it after that.

Martin,
A lot of my friends would never shoot a coyote because they eat cats and cats are so incredibly destructive to the environment  -- actually a new study just blew everyone's mind as cats kill a lot -- a lot -- more animals then anyone thought. We've always removed or destroyed them on the farms I've lived on.

That's the other reason I keep my cat inside - they are the number one predator of song birds.  In fact, housecats are actually threatening some of our native songbirds, so cats should stay inside and really not be allowed out.  Also, Suzi, in dropping all those Castor Bean seeds down gopher holes, you're actually sowing seeds, as the gophers won't eat them, and you're then going to end up with a field of Castor Bean plants!  Please reconsider :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgginva
Martin,
A lot of my friends would never shoot a coyote because they eat cats and cats are so incredibly destructive to the environment  -- actually a new study just blew everyone's mind as cats kill a lot -- a lot -- more animals then anyone thought. We've always removed or destroyed them on the farms I've lived on.

Mike i never said anything about shooting a coyote in this thread. ; )
Short story, i let my dogs out one morning @ 3:30am we are on corner lot with 2 lane street with sidewalk directly behind house and a field is on other side. At the time i had our large dog that was part rot and he liked no one, a yorkie and a Lhasa mix. 
Here comes a coyote calmly walking down sidewalk directly behind our chainlink fence and all 3 dogs charged the fence barking that coyote did not break stride nor even glance at my dogs and camly kept walking .
Had to put ole Butch down few years back due to cancer so now just our 2 little guys and a handy baseball bat . My 12g is for home invaders only.

In past coming home from work late at night i would see an ocassional 1 on garbage night at end of my driveway and each time it heard car and saw the headlights it would bolt.

I did read a story some years back that a lady lost her poodle to a coyote in town and a reply to that story from some animal guru wrote something to the effect that a coyote will actually remember the location of available food and when need be will revisit where he saw that meal.

Fig related there still snoring away in garage with a little more snow coming again tomorrow.


Correct, Martin.  Coyotes have a pattern for hunting:  They "troll" for likely food sources in the mid-morning hours.  We can almost set our clocks to our local coyotes that stroll by around 10:30 to 11:00 am in the orchard behind our house (we have a 147 acre abandoned orange orchard behind us full of wildlife).  If there is an opportunity to snatch something, like a little dog or a house cat, they'll do it, but they're usually just checking for things potentially available.  Then, they come back in the twilight hours to get serious about getting that meal.  That's why they kept coming back to our place - they were hoping to snag that little miniature Schnauzer that used to live here.  And, they used to ignore our dogs, too, on the other side of the fence until my husband casually opened our back gate one morning, just as the coyote was casually strolling by.  That was the end of one coyote.  My Aussies are big boys - 60 and 70 lbs. and wicked quick. And my biggest boy has an incredible hatred of coyotes, typical of a herding dogs, but for some reason, he's just really intensely protective of our property against the coyotes. They boys are quick, and both are intact males (show dogs). Not as quick as a coyote when they get in the tall brush, but in the open, one is no match for my two Aussies.  The rest of that coyote pack is very cautious of my dogs, now.  We can still see them out in the orchard, but they don't so casually stroll right behind our property, now.  Nor do we find coyote scat in our driveway anymore.

Martin,
I didn't think what I wrote said you shot a coyote,sorry, although I don't care if you did one way or the other. There's a lot of them out there. I'm in Virginia and it seems like most of ours are coy-dogs and kind of big. When I had a herd of meat goats I'd had shot any one I saw, but when I just have chickens, etc. I'd rather let them roam around and eat the cats.  When I lived in the Hollywood hills in LA they ate cats and poodles and hunted together -- which they're not supposed to do. A lot of the folks in my neighborhood were afraid to walk their dogs at night. More sidewalk for me.
It's amazing that a coyote wouldn't be afraid of a big dog with rot in him, but I swear they used to try and get my dog to chase them and I always thought it was an ambush. Probably giving the darn things more credit then they deserve, but I remember them even pulling a guy off his horse at Griffin Park.
My figs are just starting to think about waking up but I'm 2 zones warmer then you. You're getting snow and I'm getting rain. I think as I get older I need more and more warmth. I'm going from Marseilles to Col de Dam Noir. I need more and more heat.
The real worry here if you have fruit trees is the dang bears. They like to snap the trees about 2/3 the way up and they'll put a real hurting on your orchard. I used to have 86 acres about 8 miles from where I am now and I had orchards and we had 3 different bears that would come around. Because I'm near Shenandoah National Park and you can't shoot the bears theres like 4 or 500 of them. Because of all the visitors they just aren't very afraid of people. I'm just holding my breath about one of them finding my figs. I don't even put out bird feed in the spring because that attracts them as they've just come out of hibernation and the poor things have nothing to eat for about another month.
oops off on a tangent again.

At one time I thought coyotes were really stupid.  They yip and howl.  I thought that was really idiot, until I understood that they celebrate the kill.  Then that yipping and howling became a sad thing for me.  They snagged my neighbor's dog or cat..  Not a good thing.

Suzi

Patty,
I have an intact 70lb male blue merle with tons of copper and stunning blue eyes. My 7th Aussie. I'm pretty close to Bayshore Kennels. Do you know Frank?
I used to keep 4 on my farm as they are the absolute best guard dogs if you have a lot of different stuff you need watched and moved.

Suzi,
They don't make those noises on the east coast. Most everyone thought we didn't have any around here until a biologist spotted one dead on the beltway and started studying the situation. Everyone was shocked to learn they were here and they were multiplying fast. But they're quiet. And now 20 years later you won't see a herd of goats or sheep any where without gaurdian animals.

I have read what you wrote.  Bears?  OMG!  The chain link fence keeps out the coyotes, but we to my knowledge have no bears.  We do have cougars!  See, there is no escape!  Round-up has no effect on these critters, but castor bean strategically placed in a rotting hamburger patty might...........

Suzi, Take a look at these, all from the back yard.

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Art,
That looks about right. They sure do love bird seed as it's high in protein. My neighbor's really stubborn about feeding the birds and she looses at least one feeder ever year. I don't know how many times the bears empty them but they always carry off one or two.
One of my dogs got bit by a bear and the day we took her stitches out she got bit again. Gutsy bitch.

Yeah, we actually stopped feeding the birds. Mostly because of the coons, but that bear would empty the feeders real quick. He loved the black oil sunflower seed.

I second the suggestion about no castor bean plants
The critters are too smart to eat the beans, and the plants can quickly get out of control.

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