Hello fellows,

bullet08 - That is too bad! I am a strong believer of the 'FIG FREEDOM' movment , and all these regulations should be made much softer . What the hell a poor 'nice and healthy fig' did wrong to the world to be jailed for two years ?
Let's have hope and pray for a rapid change.

Forrest - Thank you very much! You are doing a tremendous publicity to my place. I live less than a mile from that shore! It is called 'PRAIA DOS TRES URSOS' - '3 BEAR BEACH' and this after those small isolated rocks seen on the right.
I think it was JoAnn who mention that fig talk may bring us into romantics!! And this is absolutely true. Many moons back remember of going there with my school mates swimming between those offshore rocks on wild races,fishing for octopii, rougets, skindiving..I keep good memories from those distant times.. and as I write these lines 'cannot hide that 'furtiva lagrima'...

Time has changed the landscape and '3bear beach' is nolonger the same. Bordering those cliffs there were hundreds of almonds, figs, olives, carobs..etc Some still left and I occasionaly pass by early morning, if in season, stop the car and taste a couple of figs

Bursa black is in my list with a couple of other smyrnas, but I think I have to go there to get them.

bullet08 - When you say RdB is it the ROUGEdB or the RONDEdB ? Iam curious. They are both exceptionaly good figs. I have none but have tasted and they are super

omotm - Thank you very much for your nice comment

Cheers
Francisco

francisco,

the fig i have is Ronde dB. hopefully, i'll have Pastiliere in the spring to root. from what i have heard Pastiliere might be same as Rouge dB. but it seems Pastilier drops figs. 

too much freedom and the government will be out of job. :) free movement of fig sounds nice. so much out there..

Hey Pete yes I know RdB will be available sooner than the others... To be honest I haven't applied myself one iota as far as getting cuttings of anything new and exciting. The only hot item I've got is Preto (about to pick it up) and that is because I am lucky enough to live 20 minutes from the mother tree and the nice lady who discovered it.The instant I get my larger piece of land I'll begin acquiring the good stuff. And it will be much more fun because I'll actually have somewhere to put them, as opposed to espaliering against the side of my house, which is no way to treat a Maltese Beauty. Let it grow big and free, I say.

Hi Francisco, I looked at a lot of pictures of Algarve and it really is a very beautiful place. My town, La Jolla, is too, here are a couple shots of the cliffs near my house. I assure you there are no wild fig trees on them, or I would have found them long ago. Those homes cost at least 20 million dollars, it's very expensive here.

http://www.lajollacove.com/images/magnify3x/lajolla-trails.jpg

http://montezumaproperties.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Guide-To-La-Jolla.jpeg

Anyway, sending cuttings internationally is kind of challenging indeed. I have traded with someone in Spain back when I really wanted Col de Dame. It was a whole production and I remember feeling I didn't want to go through it again anytime soon, like doing my taxes. I felt like I made a friend in the process though, and I've always been impressed by the kindness and generosity of everyone I've met from Europe. That's part of the reason I really want to travel there next year, I especially want to go to Andalucia, because it is so warm. I speak Spanish fairly well, but Portuguese is another story- its a tough language to learn! Im sure it's easier with a bowl of Euchario figs at hand :)

forrest, 

is that point loma Preto? i heard good things about them. very similar to Black Madeira, but seems to be less sensitive to environment. hopefully, mine will grow well next year for me to taste the fig. 

my father in law keeps asking me to plant the trees in ground. he was a farmer, and he believes all the trees should be in ground. main reason why i started fig is to grow fruit trees in containers. i heard fig was easy. and so far it's been working out fine for me. but i can't help thinking what a nice size land and good weather can do for the trees. 

Hi,

Pete, very interesting! It seems that the so called '..de Bordeaux' figs all come early. The Rouge de Bordeux for some people is synonim to Pastiliere, a highly regarded fig by old botanists as a very flavored and sweet fruit. Its conspicuous peduncle is of a light redish color. We have an old variety, very similar which becomes ripe slightly before mid July (quite early) same shape and skin color as pastiliere, having a sort of sweet and tasty pulp colored a nice dark orange ! As it is expected it has various names but in my area they called it 'Preto temporao' which means 'early black'.I think I loaded two or three pictures of this fig, last summer, on the topic 'ripening order'. My old prof of Sciences in high school, a Franciscan friar, had a very interesting story about this fig and its migration to the Far East in the late 16th century.

Forrest , congratulations, you are living in a fantastic place. Iam sure you will enjoy it and the proximity of the sea shall be beneficial to your figs if the winds are mild. Apparently all the Bourjassottes like the sea breezes and develop better, My place (potted figs) is not even 500 yards from the shore and all figs do very well.
The fig exchange and personal trading is becoming critical and in no way encourage people to promote the exchange of plants.
I am pretty sure you will manage with the language. For a traveller these days there are no particular problems as everybody he has to deal with in most cases speak english.
In Spain there are practically no Smyrna figs! They like brebas instead and the majority of the figs you see in markets are new varieties, very productive and with big fruit.
However, as soon as you cross the border into Portugal, end of July, (in the Algarve ONLY) the country markets will be full of Inchário Preto and the early black we talked before.
take care
Francisco

francisco, 

there are few thread about Pastiliere on the forum. one of the member martin used to grow the tree, not sure if he still does or something happened to the tree. per his updates, Pastiliere is amazing fig. only problem is, most the figs drop. i have requested Pastiliere from UCD this year. not sure if i'm getting the cuttings. however, if i do, i'll be trying few things to see if i can make the figs stick around. tho, if martin couldn't do it, i doubt i'll have much luck. his source, if i'm not mistaken, is also UCD. 

unfortunately, martin takes his pictures down often :) 

i'm not sure as to how early Ronde dB will ripen. it it ripens for me, 2013 will be the first year, if not 2014. however, i heard it ripens earlier than VdB. my VdB ripens around mid July here. typically very sweet and has strong flavor of raspberry. shockingly good. 

Pete, that black early fig was the subject of the thread #50 on RIPRNING ORDER topic.
Have a look on those pictures particularly the one where the fig sits on top the leaf .
They have matured correctly with no fruit loss, beyhond what is acceptable in these circunstances. I will pay closer attention on this coming season.
Francisco

I am learning so much from the discussions here. Pastiliere sounds interesting. I have been researching it a little almost purchased today but kind of nervous if it drops figs???? Who knows might give it a try anyways.

francisco, 

i don't remember what martin's figs looked like. but, here is the link to UCD Pastiliere on jon's site. top two sets of pictures seems to indicate they are from UCD. 

http://figs4fun.com/Thumbnail_Pastiliere.html

hard for me to say if they are same/similar. the general shape and pulp looks similar.. then again, i'm not good at comparing/identifying figs. 

what i have read so far from other people growing Pastiliere including baud from france indicated that loss of figs is common on this fig. 

jeff, 

i'm ordering Pastiliere from UCD.. meaning, i'm not sure at all if i'm going to get any cuttings. however, since it's free for me, other than shipping, i have nothing to lose but my time. everything i heard about Pastiliere is that it's great fig, if it stays on the tree till it's ready to be harvested. i'll find out sooner or later. 

there are three figs i really want from UCD. they are Black Madeira, Ischia Black and Pastilere. i already have Black Madeira. i was able to root all the cutting for BM and they are in winter storage now. if they stay alive over the winter, i'll be happy. Ischia Black seems to be harder to get and even harder to grow. so that would be fun if i can get one. it seems Pastiliere doesn't have any issue rooting or growing, but the figs will not stick around. 

what's a hobby without some challenge and frustration? 

Hi, Pete: Mike McConkey tells me his Petite Negri is 100% Black Ischia. He says he has 2 mother trees, one has the usual problems associated with that variety but the other one shook it off and grows well and so do the cuttings from it. I wouldn't get anything from UCD, there is no more hobbled tree in existence than a BI from Davis.

Yes the Preto is Point Loma Preto. I was very skeptical that it was Black Madeira without the quirks, but she sent me some pics and man, it is a ringer. I can send them to you if you haven't seen them yet. It's funny, the Black Madeira mother tree is 30 minutes away and the Preto 20 minutes. The people who brought the BM and Preto cuttings here from the Madeira Islands don't know each other. The more I think about it, the more incredible this situation seems. The odds of this happening are so infinitesimal.

I picked 2 super ripe VdBs today, they were outstanding. Late ripening stuff is the best, it really is.
Pastiliere has a very appealing look, I love those dark figs with whitish bloom on the skin, I have no idea why. I have read it is not very sweet.

Francisco: thanks for the nice words! Good to know about Bourjassote, now I just need to make friends with Pierre Baud. He's got a nice little collection going, I believe over 200 in total. Far more than is shown there. It's funny, he has all these top notch common figs and there is a Brown Turkey mixed in there too, I think he's got a sense of humor.

Just a sampling http://www.fig-baud.com/figuiers.html

He needs to take a page from Petals from the Past and sell trees for 9 dollars to US residents, let me know when that happens!

forrest, 

thanks for the offer, however, i have Figo Preto already. there are few other figs around that area in point loma. not sure what the quality of the figs are. 

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/A-Fig-Trek-with-SueV-4936949?highlight=point+loma+chico

it seems Preto is the best of the bunch. 

Well if that's the case then Mike is practicing false advertising and needs to take his PN down from his site. That sounds like total BS- not on you but on MIKE! BI is so hot there are lots of sites proclaiming to have it.

Ischia Black is hot. only if we can find the one that is not so hammered by FMV and what not like the one at UCD. i would like to try UCD Ischia Black anyway to see what comes out of it. i have seen their Ischia Green to now understand what badly growing fig looks like. but it did put on the figs. maybe i'll pump fertilizer and see what happens. 

there is a fig that is similar to BI in GA. jason found one that's been talked about during the summer. 

Hi Pete, I hadn't seen that Point Loma thread, thanks. However, nothing I saw there would get me excited about preto, she sent me other pics that did. You've probably seen them already though, where they look JUST like BM. I'm with your father in law! You and Lampo should plant those trees. Pots belong in kitchen cabinets, I say. Just imagine a 10 foot tall, 15 foot wide Ronde de Bordeaux, with beautiful structure, fully loaded with figs, with open space all around it. What sort of monetary value could you put on that? It's priceless. Now imagine have a huge lot with 21 more, all different and the best varieties, and inviting friends to come over and pick some... now we are talking!

Dominick you should call Mike and talk to him about it. He seems pretty convincing and he has 35 years of experience. As for me, I plead ignorance. No idea. I am hopeful that there is a healthy Black Ischia out there though. He also thinks Battaglia and Verte are identical.

Mike at EL also thinks that Sal's Gene (aka Sal's EL) is the same variety as Hardy Chicago.  So he doesn't sell Sal's EL any more (unless that's what you get when you buy HC from him).  (Kind of ironic, considering how many people call it Sal's EL).  To me he seems an honorable guy, and also seems to have the opinion that cultivars should be defined fairly broadly.  When you think of it, many of these boundaries between different cultivars are fairly arbitrary.  We all accept that there can be genetic differences among different individual trees of the same cultivar (ones that aren't clones of each other), so where exactly do you draw the boundary line between cultivars?  There's no recognized governing organization for "officially" defining fig cultivars.  So when I see reference that Mike at EL also associates other pairings as "the same cultivar", it seems to me that he's consistent about broad cultivar definitions, allowing for a wider range of individual variation within each cultivar.

By the way, isn't he also one of the original importers of Petite Negri?  I thought he's considered one of the defining sources for that variety.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

As we said growing up in Queens- this sounds a little 'Fugazi'

I can't answer your question because I haven't tasted them all.  Flavor is most important to me.  Size doesn't matter.  Productivity doesn't matter.  Taste does!  If the taste is honey, it better be exceptional honey!  If the taste is berry, I better know which berry it is, and it should be exceptional!  Melon?  Which one, and how powerful?

See?  I think this is a question that can not be answered.  Me, I love asparagus!  JD HATES it!  So it's just personal.

I like a fig with a strong personal flavor that makes me "lean against whatever I'm standing by" to recover from the experience.

Others care if the fig is hardy and good. 

This is a question that can not be answered!

Suzi

About the Petite Negri thing:

McConkey imported the variety in the 80s.

It is not UCD Ischia Black.

Ischia Black is an appellation not that firmly tied to a strain, so there are a number of Ischia Blacks.

For example, the tree Jason found, looks to be like the healthy IB that our Louisianan friends have.  It's another Bordeaux type that has the label.  Call it as it has been called, Black Provence.

Lastly, without having had the fruit and just reading descriptions of it, I'd say that Petite Negri, or at least what my trees give me, is very close to IB in flavor profile.  Of course, I can say it's also close to UCD Barnisotte and the more classical Viollete De Sollies.  So who knows?  Definitely a distinct bordeaux strain at the least. 

Thanks for the info shah8.  Sounds right.

Mike

Uhm no

Black Provence = Black Marseillaise = Marseilles Black VS

http://figs4fun.com/Var_B_info.html#BLACKISCHIA

 BLACK PROVENCE= BLUE ISCHIA= NERO=ISCHIA BLACK

i would still say the UCD Ischia Black is the Ischia Black we are looking for. as to if they are all the same figs or not.. i haven't collected enough to tell that for myself.

Ugh- No offense Chivas-I have sat for hours upon hours and 2.5 years researching Figs in old books and PDF documents.  As great as F4F forums is and will be for years to come, it is not the end all and be all of info. My statement is related to documents and statements relayed by other Fig Forum members, here and on other sites.  While I have not grown them side by side as of yet, based on pictures in literature and color photos, I stand by my what I have said. But I will say that there is a chance Barnisotte and Black Ischia are the same. Speaking with other fig growers around the world, they have said that Black Ischia and Black Provence are different even though the great Richard Watts believes that they are the same but then again what he had obtained may have been mislabeled like so many others. But Nero is a whole other thing.  We have cut off the first part of a figs name. So what I have as Nero is completely different than another. While Nero has been chopped off of Brogiotto in some instances, there are quite a few figs that use that name, like Brogiotto Nero Romano, a whole different black fig.  Just like Fico Preto has been chopped to preto in conversation, it does not take away from it's recognition as Fico Preto in databases.  But go to its actual place of origin and it may be a totally different story on name recognition.

That is why I find the conversation about BI being a name and not a variety a bit naive. If we start classifying figs as a Bordeaux variety, we eliminate its history of developing it's own independent traits in its said location.  With Bordeaux being a region, it is hard to add varieties unless a new variety independent of main traits of others with that name are found from that area. That is not the case with Coll de dama/ Coll Dama varieties which describe attributes of the fig in its name. With this main name you can readily add varieties to its subset when discovering and adding others.  Although its name doesn't describe attributes, Bordissot is another name that can add subsets due to fitting a certain profile.  They are both not held to a location. 

Mike is only human he made a mistake by saying hc and sals are the same. There is no way in hell that bi is that same as negrone even if the fruit or leaves looked similar but there not. Any one who believes that bi, pn, are Bordeaux are the same are special in a window licking sort of way.

I know i want sals el but i do have a hardy chicago so now im torn. tomany names for the cingulare makes this whole mess confusing. i may just strick what i am not 100% sure of from the list.