First; Is it too late in the year to start an air-layer in my zone?

Second; This will need a little more background before asking the next question(s):

I tried a couple of grafts this spring with good results. I grafted 2 varieties onto one tree. I used a grafting tape known as Parafilm. Sort of a tape that behaves more like wax when wrapping a graft union with it. I've simply left the Parafilm on the graft union up until the present.

I was planning to "store" this tree for the winter (by burying it, new grafts & all). Before doing so I was going to cut off half of the new growth and store them in the fridge in order to insure the preservation of the varieties.

I was planning to start air-layers on these grafts next summer. This way I get the 2 cultivars removed from the rootstock and started on their own roots.

Here's the kicker: Today I went to check on these grafts and as I peeled the Parafilm back I got an interesting suprise. There are small roots forming under the parafilm! The roots appear to be growing, primarily, from the scionwood & not so much from the rootstock.

- So, should I go ahead & start an air-layer on this? 

- If I do start air-layers now will I have enough time for the new trees to go dormant & be able to store them for winter? If not, should I just keep them in the house or similar?

- Does anyone see a problem with me starting the air-layers, just leaving them until the tree goes dormant, and then burying the tree air-layers and all? I like this idea, just not so sure if it's a good one.

Any input on this is much appreciated.

Here are a couple of pics to give you a visual on one of the graft unions with the roots on it.  

Hopefully everyone can see the pix now. It seems like a new post has to be made b4 pix show up when I start a new thread - ?

The only problem I see is that the roots of the air layer might not have enough moisture around them to keep them from drying out over winter. But this should not affect the part above the layer.  However, the roots of that layer should grow back quickly in the spring should they dry out.

Regarding the roots that you saw under that tape. Years ago I saw a website where "somebody" used electrical tape (that was turned sticky side up) on the branches of his tree where he planned to take cuttings. Turns out that root initials consistently formed under that tape. That technique gave him a much improved success rate for his cuttings. I can no longer find that particular link which had some pictures of this method.
----------------------------------

FYI.......I had intentions of trying to develop roots on "single nodes" by this "electrical tape" technique in order to start sinlge node cuttings like "SEEDS". I never had a chance to pursue that idea. Anyone want to give that a try and report back to us?? I just don't have the time to do all the fig experiments that I would like to conduct.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

Ya know what Dan? Now that you mention it. I was thinking that someone on this forum had either posted a link to the site your talking about or they had posted the info themselves here somewhere. It definately rings a bell with me also.

I think you helped me decide what I'm going to do already. If I start the air-layer now I'll just remove the air-layering device (foil, plastic bottle, whatever) before I bury the tree. I don't think it will hurt a thing. It will certainly get as much or as little moisture as the rootstock since they will be under ground after all.

Then, In spring, I can either re-attach an air-layer thingy or just go ahead and sever the union then - depending on the condition of the roots. What do ya think?

I may just go for it.

Thanks for the help. 

I like that single node "seed" idea too.

By the way, both of those cleft grafts I did were single node scion pieces. That's one of the great benefits of grafting. You don't have to rely on just the energy that a single cutting holds. A massive root base is already established in the rootstock.

I now have an additional 12-13 nodes of those two varieties to work with. I guess it all comes down to node count now huh ;) ? BTW, the two varieties are RdB and Longue de Aout.

That sure sounds like a plan to me!! However, it would not hurt to keep some wet spagnum moss/potting mix wrapped around the air layer's roots. Maybe hold it in place with some wire or screen mesh.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

Looks like we're on a roll here Dan :] .

Thanks for the tip. I will keep some "extra protection" in mind before I tuck the tree, and it's air-layers, in for the winter.

Bill, PLEASE take some pictures of the burying process so I can include them o the F4F FAQ.

"I was planning to start air-layers on these grafts next summer. This way I get the 2 cultivars removed from the rootstock and started on their own roots."

Why remove them totally? Would these cultivars not grow well and produce figs on the rootstock?

Jon,
Will try to remember to do so.

FMD,
You're right, I don't have to do the air layers. But since most figs do just fine on their own roots, I wanted to remove the grafted portions sooner or later just to reclaim the rootstock for future grafting. Who knows, I may even yet change my mind and wait until next year.

Billl,

Have you done any grafts on LSU Purple rootstock?

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

Bill,

I was thinking of doing something similar using a potentially excellent rootstock. I grew a fig tree from seed that turned out to be a celeste variant. The tree grew to an enormous size very quickly and continues to grow healthily. It is 10X the size of some of the other trees started at the same time. I am talking 20- 25 feet in height and spread (I haven't actually measured it). The fruit is mediocre, but the wood is incredible..

I've air-layered several bifurcating limbs so that I could graft more than one variant per rootstock once it is ready. Too ambitious? Any suggestions?

Frank

@Dan,
I haven't used LSU Purple as roostock. I have two small treelets and would rather see fruit from them before sacrificing them for rootstock. This is actually my first season doing any grafting but I am definately hooked. 

I made a couple of failed attempts years ago when I stilled lived in S FL. But this past winter I gave it my full attention with renewed determination. I did some research, watched some youtube vids, and even did some practice grafts in the house with dormant wood from one of the trees in my yard. This practice helped me alot in getting a feel for various types of grafting methods before trying it on the real thing.

I first grafted 4 types of Asian Pears onto an European pear rootstock. 8 out of ten of those grafts took on my first try (all cleft grafts). Encouraged by this, I moved on to the figs. I did four grafts with these - two cleft grafts & two T-buds. Niether of the T-buds took but both cleft grafts did.

I practiced with saddle & whip grafting this winter also and they both seem to be very solid methods. The drawback to those two though is that the scion and rootstock have to be very close to the same diameter. Not so with cleft (aka wedge) grafting.

BTW the fig tree rootstock I used is an unknown yellow fig that produces too late for my climate. It came from my friend 'Farmer Don'.

@Frank,
Sounds like you're going to have some fun with that rootstock ;) . I don't think you're being too ambitious either. I plan to try some grafts next season on some trees that have multiple small branches near the top. I think if the rootstock is that vigorous, you shouldn't have a problem with the scion getting plenty of nutrients. Just be sure to keep every bud of the roostock pinched off so all of the energy can be diverted into the scion. 

How do you feel about sharing some cuttings from that seedling rootstock Frank :) ? It sounds like it's just what I'm looking for. 

I would be happy to share cuttings from the mother tree with you, Bill. God knows there is plenty of wood! PM me your address and I'll get them in the mail. to you pronto. You will need to tell me how to package them, as I have never mailed cuttings before.

If there are any other experimenters out there in figland that would like to try this rootstock, let me know, maybe we can trade or something.

Frank

Dangit Bill...now I'm going to have to play at grafting this winter!!  Don't forget to bring some grafting stuff with you on Sunday, and maybe you can show us. 

Bill, your air-layer question reminded me & since I live in the same state as you....if one recently started an air-layer, say in the last 2 weeks, what is the process for over-wintering the plant?  I plan on moving ALL my plants into my attached garage, it is unheated.   Is there anything "special" I need to do to the plant that has the pending air-layer?    Of course, I plan on checking it before I move it to the garage, but what IF it happens to get a nice size rootball BEFORE they need to be moved to garage....do I pot it up and keep it in the house over the winter like other houseplants?

Bill,

The reason I asked about using LSU Purple rootstock is because it is one of the earliest figs to awaken in the spring in my yard. And it is usually the last one to go dormant in the fall. Accordingly, I have a hunch that cultivars grated onto LSU Purple rootstock will produce figs EARLIER in the season. Plus LSU Purple is a vigorous grower and a prolific producer of figs. It can produce three crops in my area. Too; and according to LSU research, it is a nematode resistant fig.

These properties sound like good rootstock material to me.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

You will enjoy the grafting experience Sara. Keep in mind you will be exposed to lots of fig latex. The growing rootstock early in the year is really flowing with it. This is great for grafting but not so great for you since you have a sensitivity. Just be prepared ;) .

@Dan. LSU Purple does sound like a good choice for rootstock. I will keep it in mind for the reasons you mentioned.

Thanks for the FYI on the latex ooze alert when grafting....THAT may be a huge problem for me, but if I can wear gloves (like I use for patient care) and see what my dexterity is like.  I've worn them for almost TWO decades now, so it may be nothing but a thing when working on grafting.  Will have to try it and see.   Check your PM, I have a grafting ? for you Bill.

Frank- The biggest bonus for using that tree as a rootstock is the guarantee that it does not have FMV, I think. Have you tried to germinate any seeds from that tree? It might have been so vigorous because of "seedling vigor", it will be interesting to find out if the cuttings perform as well as the parent. Or perhaps the lack of disease is the reason for the fantastic growth, I am curious.

I was very suprised when Frank told me the age of that tree keeblers could open a newton factory in that thing.
I think it is well worth tring as a rootstock the figs arent as unapealing as he says either its better than any bt I've ever tried.
One note for anyone trying grafting for the first time wrap some masking tape around your finger to prevent getting cut-bleeding takes some of the fun out of it

I tried posting pictures pf the tree but photobucket and my incompetence kept turning the tree sideways! I will go back to the drawing board until the pictures are upright.

I have not tried germinating any more fig seeds from that tree or any other tree, fearing the possibility of an apocalyptic man-eating plant being birthed...just kidding.

Edit:

So not to hijack this thread, please see this post for pictures of the tree:

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5461001&pid=1269931830#post1269931830

Frank,
No worries here about you hijacking this thread. Thanks for posting that link. That tree is something else.

Hi All,

I missed this thread the first time around.  I found it looking for information on cleft grafting.  I have been trying to come up with a strategy to get Black Madeira and Black Ischia (as well as some other slow growing varieties) to grow.  I have tried to root both of these varieties for many years and have not had success.  It seems like heat sets in too early in the season and the roots do not grow fast enough for the tree to beat the heat.  One solution was rooting them in the ground in Oct/Nov so the trees would have the winter months to produce roots.  Even if the cuttings took, these varieties are known as slow growers.  A second solution is to graft the cuttings onto a more aggressive root stock.  My experiences led me to LSU Purple as Dan had suggested and for the same reasons. 

Bill, did you have any success with the cleft graft?

Frank, if you have cuttings of your tree available.  If so I can compare against LSU Purple.

I have two (maybe three) small LSU Purple trees I am willing to sacrifice to graft onto.

~james

p.s.  I was the one who posted (I think in GW) about etiolating limbs with electrical tape.  I stumbled across this while using electrical tape to attach trees to stakes.  Here are some pictures...

James, I too would be interested in a follow up on the grafting results.

PM me your address and when we finally get a couple of decent frosts in Tallahassee, I will be glad to send you some scion-wood. Surely someone somewhere has had good success grafting slow growers on vigorous scion-wood. Wasn't Jon experimenting on this?

Frank

Replies coming later today.

-Bill.