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My Black Madeira on BT - Update to include budding

Thanks, Calvin.  I had never used the knife until today even though I bought it about 10 years ago for something like $50-$60 (I see now that it sells new for about $200).  After watching the video Francisco posted, I know better how to use it and the expert long-time grafter said to make the patch smaller than the opening in the stock as matching up on the sides doesn't really matter.  Because of the odd position I was working in for some of my grafts (mostly because I was trying to place bud on the side of the branch facing the sun to the south to aid in callusing), some of my side cuts were not at right angles and I did have to trim a couple of them.

Also, I found that I was unable to slide the Black Madeira patch off like shown in that video.  I don't know if it's because figs are just different or because they are no longer actively growing (but they are still growing somewhat).  I used the brass bud lifter to help get under the bud to lift it and to make sure I obtained the "heart" of the bud.

Overall, it seems like a very simple process and I like it and will definitely use it more often if these buds grow for me.

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  • lampo
  • · Edited

Harvey,

That's a very nice job ! well done.
Congratulations.

Being done in the fall, they stand a good chance of taking up but to remain dormant until coming spring.
Inspecting the job in 3 ..4 weeks time you will know exactly what happened.

On the budded cuttings you put to root, I would wax the top cut on the stock, thus keeping the juices inside to avoid losses by evaporation and insure a longer flow of stored nutrients . (may be you have covered it with the film,.? cannot clearly see)
I would also cutoff eventual live buds left on this same stock....all available energies going to the scion patch.

Using this method you guarantee automatic and perfect cambium contact on the top and horizontal cuts, which are the most important, plus at least one (or even the two) of the vertical cuts.

Good luck!
Francisco
Portugal

Thanks, Francisco. Yes, the cuttings have been wrapped in film as I've done with all of my cuttings.

In citrus budding we typically leave the other buds alone until the new bud's unions have sealed then we will bend or cut off the top and start removing lower growth.  I plan to leave the other buds alone until things start growing and decide then what to do.

The biggest concern I had with this is the lack of good slipping and uncertainty if I was truly getting the "heart" of the bud.

The video is great, I watched about half of it last night. Thanks for bringing it up again Harvey and thanks for posting it Francisco. At work all videos are blocked to preserve data flow so sometimes I forget that a video was ever part of a thread. I'll be watching the rest soon.

Congrats Harvey. Envy what you are doing. Here it is a little challenging as I have to do it in a pot and have it planted when
it grows bigger. Main constrain is the season is a little too short before cooler weather changes things.

Thanks, Paul.  Yes, I imagine that a more vigorous root system could have drawbacks for those growing in pots.

Someone else asked me if a tree on more vigorous roots would mature fruit earlier in the season and I can't really answer that yet.

Rootstock selection has long been used to control size, disease resistance, and fruiting habits of various fruit trees, it would surprise me if that wasn't the case for figs.   
Even grapes, which are easily grown on their own roots like figs, are sometimes grafted onto rootstocks.   It would make an interesting study to use a variety that produces early fruits, like Florea, and graft it over to a late ripening variety or one known for not fruiting at a young age, and see whether rootstock affects the ripening time, etc.   

Great stuff guys, I feel like I may try some patch budding this spring.

Harvey, how far apart are those blades?  Look to be about an inch??
I need to make one for myself.

Greg, Frostproof.com says the blades are 1.125" apart and that seems about right.  I was thinking it could be less than that but the wood below the bud (on the budwood) always seems to have some unusual growth that makes it uneven so I think it's good to start a cut well below the bud.  The blades are sharpened on only the edge facing the outside.  This seems ideal for the bud patch but opposite of what I think would be ideal for the cut being made on the stock.  I think any sort of blade should work fine for this sort of work, maybe try blades for a carpet knife.

Not to hijack your thread Harvey, but here is a nice article I just read on patch grafting for olives if anyone wants to read it: http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8115.pdf.

So far, no buds have pushed from the above buds after taking cuttings from these branches and starting them in the rooting process.  Still am hoping for some to push but would have been better to do this earlier in the year.

For those who would like one of these Tina budding knives, there is one on eBay now starting at $100 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181614659277 (appears to be new, unused, so decent deal since it's less than half of the cost of a new one bought at retail.)

I had 2 folks asking me about grafting and budding tonight and I referred one friend to this thread.  When I tried this I knew it was not a good time of year but it's when I had time to try it.  I'd like to try it again now but simply don't have the time but think others should.

That tree looks amazingly, you have any more recent photos of it?  I am planning on trying to do some grafting onto cuttings since I dont have much rootstock yet. As for that knife, thats a really cool setup!

That is awesome Harvey, congrats!

Yes, I have more photos of my grafted BM but I'm using this thread now to promote the idea of trying some of these patch budding methods.  Maybe I can try some later this week but I'd like to see how it works out for others as well.

My grafted Black Madeira at the end of 2015 was about 10 times the size of a non-grafted one, each being the same age of 3 years old.  About 7' of growth on the longest branches vs. 4'.

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  • Raaz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyC
Yes, I have more photos of my grafted BM but I'm using this thread now to promote the idea of trying some of these patch budding methods.  Maybe I can try some later this week but I'd like to see how it works out for others as well.

My grafted Black Madeira at the end of 2015 was about 10 times the size of a non-grafted one, each being the same age of 3 years old.  About 7' of growth on the longest branches vs. 4'.

Hi Harvey, how r u
This is my first post here. I am from Canada and got cuttings from u this season.

Good cuttings and they are growing. Thanks for that.

I want to try grafting also on three of my brown turkey plants last year I bought $3 each.

They are kind of one year old and now I woke them early by putting inside.
They are of 3/4 inch dia.

I will use the grafting tool , I bought from Lee valley.

My question was how to control the drip or sap during grafting ??

I noticed in your discussion that dripping could kill grafting.

And if I stop watering them before grafting , will it work? In this case how long we could stop watering after grafting??
Thanks


  Hi Raaz,

    I wouldn't assume to speak for Harvey,  but in that he stays quite busy, it may be a little while before he sees your post and is able to respond to your question.  I have sat with him at his home through several days of grafting multiple cultivars, and can give you what he taught me about relieving the sap flow.

   If fluids have begun to push through your host plant, Harvey makes several superficial cuts, just below the grafting site, through the outer bark, and just into the cambium layer.  These cuts are not quite around the entire circumference of the trunk or branch being grafted onto...  but rather they encompass about 3/4 to 7/8 of the circumference.  The several slices are just 3/8 to 1/2" below one another, and the non-incised portion are offset from one-another. (The uncut portion of each slice is not immediately above or below the next uncut portion.  If you are familiar with automobile engines, you could substitute the piston rings for the slices.  The opening of each piston ring is set 1/3 offset from the next ring on the piston)

  The plant is not kept from its watering regime.  (Don't stop the appropriate watering of the plant, but remember that the foliage is no longer present on the plant, so water requirements are drastically reduced as evapotranspiration has all but stopped.) 

Thanks Bluemalibu.
I will do that.

You did well Blue, thanks.  You were also good in predicting my response. :)


  Well, I had a good instructor...

Hi Blue,

can u guide me one more thing that the humidity is 40 % and temperature is 24*C of the room where I am growing my cuttings .buds are coming out .

Is this much humidity is good ? or I should put plastic bags on the pots ??

last time I put plastic bags and fungus grew up in a day or two.

I am new in growing figs but I love it .


  Experience is the best teacher, Raaz.  For your conditions, you're being taught that more humidity = trouble.  While you will find some growers that promote humidity chambers, like you, they caused me to experience my only fig losses due to mold.  And the transition from humidity dome to ambient humidity has to be carefully orchestrated, or you will lose a large percentage of plants at that time.

  You are finding success with budding cuttings without the humidity chambers...   if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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