My Frankenfig

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brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1368760753	Reply with quote #1

or is it Figenstein (and for the record, it's pronounced "Fie jin steen") I layered several clones of a neighbor's fig tree in Richmond, VA in 2003. It was an unnamed that had been in his yard for over 30 yrs, and he had rooted it from a cutting off his mother's tree where he had grown up. I gave all but one away, and it has been in the ground in south Louisiana for 7 years after spending a few in a pot. I like to piddle in my garden. . . July 2004 April 2006 It's the "big" one in the foreground May 2006 March 2009 Gotta download some more pics, more to come. Shaping and grafting. . .

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1368761995	Reply with quote #2

June 2010 Jan 2011 March 2011

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1368762710	Reply with quote #3

Nov 2011 Going for two planes, about 4' and 6' off the ground March 2013 And now the grafts (Most covered in foil). Most of the grafts are now budding out. I;l get more pics tomorrow. May 2013

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1368762897	Reply with quote #4

I used a variety of graft techniques. Total rookie. Here are a T graft and a chip graft.

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1368763530	Reply with quote #5

15 varieties grafted (if the ebay sellers are all accurate): LSU purple Neighbor's Celest or BT, will see in fall Unknown yellow from local source Violette de Bourdeaux Panache Kadota Alma Conradia Black Mission Neri Galban Paridiso st Jerome Hardy Chicago unknown Bronx Yellow from jimmychao (thread on this site) I now need to do the top layer. I figure I can fit 8-15 more, depending on the grafting density. ANy ideas for closed eye varieties, good fresh?

c2meang

Registered:1347058157
Posts: 225

Posted 1368764325	Reply with quote #6

That's one amazing tree... I mean 15+1 amazing trees.. __________________ Peter Magnolia, AR Zone 8a Wish list: Maltese Falcon, Maltese Beauty, Galicia Negra, Col de Dame Gris, Toni's Brown Italian, LSU Red

brackishfigger

Registered:1366681613
Posts: 270

Posted 1368764492	Reply with quote #7

Thanks. I look at the really pretty shape from a couple of years ago and sometimes wonder if I should have stuck with that.

Matt_from_Pittsburgh

Registered:1232252573
Posts: 227

Posted 1368765442	Reply with quote #8

Wow, that is one incredible figatron. I don't know much about grafting, but I have one large, disappointing tree that I've been thinking about adding grafts to. Did you use dormant cuttings for the grafts? You have some good varieties. One thing I would suggest for the next layer would be to add a couple of breba-only figs, like desert king. That way you can stretch out harvest time. Those pictures are so cool. Thanks for posting. __________________ Matt Pittsburgh, PA Zone 6ish

Paul13

Registered:1365776628
Posts: 37

Posted 1368768948	Reply with quote #9

That tree is amazing, very nice work. __________________ Paul Zone 6b Central NJ Wish list: Anything from Italy especially from Calabria and Naples. Calabrese long, Latarolla, Valle Calda di Borgo Fornari, Valle Negra, Ischia Black, Italian 258, Cosenza, Troiano Calabrese.

BronxFigs

Registered:1333154764
Posts: 1,864

Posted 1368785117	Reply with quote #10

Thank you for sharing that photo montage, documenting the progress of this amazing fig tree. Very enjoyable viewing. Beautiful children....future fig growers. Frank __________________ Bronx, NYC Zone-7

ForeverFigs

Registered:1351425467
Posts: 1,062

Posted 1368794829	Reply with quote #11

Nice pics...and nice to see the kids involved. __________________ Vince Edison N.J. Zone 6b Wish List: LaRadek's EBT

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1368819700	Reply with quote #12

And noone is going to comment on my outstanding Young Frankenstein reference in post 1? Uncultured louts. . .

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1368843016	Reply with quote #13

Some cuttings were greening up a bit, others freshly cut from activelyt growing limbs, but most were dormant. I don't see a trend in which technique worked best, because almost all are budding out (assuming budding out suggests the grafts are taking) They've been in LA heat for at least two wks, many up to three, so I'm guessing they're taking.

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1368903020	Reply with quote #14

Thanks for posting the pictures and the chronology. It's a very attractive topiary. How productive was the 2011 form? How do the figs look and taste? Thanks.

elin

Registered:1360863025
Posts: 1,271

Posted 1368909459	Reply with quote #15

This is a nice grafting idea.... __________________ Eli ,Israel ,Zone 10? Too humid and hot, yada yada yada https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1298814119 Growing: Sbayi, Hmadi, Black Portugal, Black Brazil,Excell, Flanders, Hmari , RDB, Niagra Black,Natalina, CDDN,Maya, Preto Torres, Preto Arge

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1368934578	Reply with quote #16

Quote: Thanks for posting the pictures and the chronology. It's a very attractive topiary. Thanks. Quote: How productive was the 2011 form? It was my first really good year. I'm not sure how to quantify, but it was loaded. It has struggled in the LA heat at times, and rust usually claims all of the leaves in late summer. It refoliates before winter, though. Quote: How do the figs look and taste? They are brownish purple and just under golf ball size. I don't have a wide experience, taste-wise, and I've never done a side by side comparison of figs, but you can be sure I will this fall including with celeste and BT (dime a dozen around here). I will say that the figs are delicious fresh. I intend to milk the expertise outa this place this fall with pics of leaves and figs for opinions on accuracy of the named varieties.

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1368934869	Reply with quote #17

Also, I have read with great interest on this site about FMV, and it seems consensus that if my tree was not already infected, it almost assuredly is now, likely by several different viruses. I have decided to subscribe to the "cold sore" point of view, that it can manifest itself when the tree is stressed, resulting in stunted growth and/or reduced yields, but it is not fatal or otherwise constitutionally harmful. Still, I took cuttings prior to the first graft.

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1369005501	Reply with quote #18

I added LSU Gold and Magnolia today. The magnolia was a spontaneous Lowes purchase for 6$. I have read now that it is an open eye variety prone to split and rot. Not good for wet south LA. I'll leave it be, but I may have my first contestant for swapping out if it does not please me. After counting, I have two more spots on the bottom and 14 up top, though I'll likely leave several as the native tree. They're ppretty good in their own right.

THISISME

Registered:1365723803
Posts: 47

Posted 1369067403	Reply with quote #19

Thank you brackishfigger. I love all the photos. You took them all at just the right time making it easy to see how to do what you have done. I feel like I have been totally schooled. In a good way. Thanks again THISISME __________________ What's it taste like? Is it open or closed eyed? Zone 9b in the Desert where it's hot and dry.

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1374117129	Reply with quote #20

A few updates and some random pics Of the previous grafts, these made it with varying degrees of vigor, a few still tenuous: LSU purple Neighbor's Celest or BT, will see in fall Unknown yellow from local source Violette de Bourdeaux Panache Magnolia/Brunswick Alma Conradia Black Mission Neri Galban Hardy Chicago unknown Bronx Yellow from jimmychao (thread on this site) I lost these, including the rooted cuttings: Kadota 1 Paridiso st Jerome LSU Gold I have since added using cuttings from the LSU orchard: Scotts Black O'Rourke Hollier Hunt LSU Purple (duplicate, but this one from one of the mama trees at LSU) Champagne Tiger Marseille and from one of my fellow LSU field-trippers, whose name I did not catch (THANK YOU!!): "Native Black" Becnel Belle Chase and I have added 4 new unnamed from local sources. So 17 named cutivars and 8 unknows if including Native Black. I have room for 5-6 more. The first three pics are of the same chip/escutcheon graft Fresh whip graft a well healed but ugly whip graft chip/escutcheon graft saddle graft bark grafts a well healed whip graft This is the same chip graft shown in the last pic of post 4 above

Cajun

Registered:1329745637
Posts: 204

Posted 1374152174	Reply with quote #21

Great job brackish figger! I would love to see that tree someday... __________________ Cal - Brusly, LA Zone 9a

Cajun

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Posts: 204

Posted 1374259710	Reply with quote #22

I would recommend LSU GOLD, although the eye is not completely closed, there is usually a drop of honey that seals it. And even in rainy weather here near Baton Rouge, I only have a handful that have ever split, and remarkably those don't necessarily sour if you get em soon enough. It has become one of my favorite figs, it produces a ton of very large sweet figs with good flavor. __________________ Cal - Brusly, LA Zone 9a

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1374260796	Reply with quote #23

Thanks Cal, it is on my short list and I can't believe I forgot to grab a cutting at Burden/LSU. No shortage of them around here though, so I'll come across one eventually. My "Purple" I bought at a local nursery, for the cuttings to graft,and it remains in the pot with figs. The graft took great, one of my four best, but the figs on the potted mama are the wrong shape and appear to be ripening yellow, so I may have a Gold already! Glad I got cuttings from a true Purple at Burden/LSU.

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1375035775 · Edited	Reply with quote #24

Of the large batch I grafted on LSU day (7/13/13, 15 days ago), only the "Native Black" has clearly "taken" (and two different grafts, to boot!) , with all of the others yet to bud out. I remain confident that some/many will make it. Thanks again to the anonymous supplier of the Native Black. Here is a bark graft of the nursery-bought-probably-isn't-really LSU Purple that I pruned because the one on the other side was the more vigorous of the two, and it refuses to die. Edit 12/29/15 The little sprout never gave up! Both of my Neri 2 grafts died, but two cuttings are growing. I decided to try a whip/tongue graft using the bottom of a rooted cutting , and reroot the top. I incorporated the roots into the graft by cutting a slit along the length of the rooot stock, separating the bark, and placing the roots in that space like you would a T graft. Edited 10/22 this graft did not take

cis4elk

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Posts: 1,718

Posted 1375036703	Reply with quote #25

Awesome. __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

loquat1

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Posts: 585

Posted 1382398211	Reply with quote #26

Did you reach any conclusions as to which method works best? Or are they all much of a muchness? __________________ Costas

Ruuting

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Posts: 613

Posted 1382401061	Reply with quote #27

Damn! That is one majestic tree. Gorgeous! __________________ Rui Southeast CT, zone 6B

MichaelTucson

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Posts: 1,216

Posted 1382406270	Reply with quote #28

How are the figs? Which varieties have been productive and good? (Great work grafting too... but I'm especially interested to hear which ones work out well in terms of production and taste, viability, etc.). Mike central NY state, zone 5a p.s. Hmmph, eye-gore to you. :-) __________________ Pauca sed matura.

needaclone

Registered:1346812939
Posts: 604

Posted 1382406547	Reply with quote #29

Too bad I didn't read this thread 5 months ago! All the grafting and espalier doesn't interest me much at this point, but that truly was an outstanding Young Frankenstein reference in your initial post!!!! I picked up on it right away, along with the fact that you probably weren't the only one piddling in your garden! (BTW, Young Frankenstein was one of the first movies I ever saw in the theater. It was for a kindergarten birthday party, of all things. Most of it was way over my head at that age!) Jim __________________ Clarksburg, NJ - Zone 6b Wishlist - A wise man recommended: Nero600M . Malta Black . Tacoma (Takoma) Violet . Gino's . Adriatic JH . Vista Mission . Florea . Atreano . ...also...RdB, Bethlehem Black, Negronne, Grise de St. Jean, Livano, Col de Dame Blanc/Gris/Noir, Vasilika Sika, Longue D'Aout, Italian 258, Pennsylvania 6-5000

dfoster25

Registered:1337044031
Posts: 723

Posted 1382408327	Reply with quote #30

Very nice pictures and awesome project. Thanks for sharing pictures of your tree. Awesome! __________________ Zone 6, SE MICHIGAN -14F 1-7-14 -23F 2-?-15 6F 1-18-16

Gina

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Posts: 2,260

Posted 1382408938	Reply with quote #31

Thank you. I enjoyed looking at the photos from over the years. They tell an interesting story. I especially liked the espalier aspects. Speaking of classic cinema references, some of the training phases for the tree remind me of the old movie 'Coma'. __________________ WillsC's new fig forum: http://www.Ourfigs.com (and blueberries)

Feigenbaum

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Posts: 382

Posted 1382439202	Reply with quote #32

Wow! What a crazy projetct! :-D I love the way you formed the tree over the years. __________________ Hi from Germany! (Zone 7b) Christian

Sas

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Posts: 1,363

Posted 1382459702	Reply with quote #33

Nice tree! What month do you do your grafts? Best Wishes, __________________ Sas from North Austin TX Zone 8B Wish list: Becane

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1382668028	Reply with quote #34

I began grafting in early May as the tree was coming out of dormancy. Despite my rather sloppy technique, that large batch had the highest percentage of takers. As I added more over the summer, I became less and less successful, not too surprising in south LA heat. I had the best luck with whip, bark, and chip/escutcheon grafts. I had the worst luck with T grafts. I think timing is the most important element, early spring when the tree is pushing. Only the Hardy Chicago made any figs to ripening, and they were as the tree was exfoliating with rust, so they weren't so hot and were small. Interesting that some of the grafts seem less suseptible to rust, but I suspect that has more to do with the age of the leaves. The last old leaves of the rootstock are now finally falling, from rust, but the many small new leaves from the second blush are unmarred. I'll have to see if the difference remains when all the grafts break dormancy with the rest of the tree this spring, and all start making leaves at the same time. Or should I say at their appointed time, as some may retain characteristics for earlier/later spring blush. Can't wait to see! I have many pots with cuttings of figs whose graft did not take and I have several varieties lined up with users here for use this spring. I hope to score a trip to the LSU orchard some time in late winter. LSU day was in July, and few grafts or cuttings survived. My grafts seem to come in three varieties: survive and thrive; die outright; or surge then stall, or even die back in stages, sometimes with mini surges between the die backs. some great links for those interested in graftin (also some great youtube stuff. Don't limit yourself to fig vidoes/info, the techniques are all the same) http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/english-translation-of-axiers-how-to-graft-an-adult-fig-tree-4504717 http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/simple-stepbystep-grafting-5830743 Young Frankenstein is one of my earliest movie theater memories too, though I had just turned four when it was released, so it must have been a reshowing some time later. Plenty of humor for the little ones. Put. The candle. Back. I don't know if kids today would recognize all the classic monster movie references/spoofs.

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1382668104	Reply with quote #35

I planted a persimmon last week. Another creation beckons! I am going to be busy this spring!!

MichaelTucson

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Posts: 1,216

Posted 1382673869	Reply with quote #36

Interesting project brackishfigger. It'll be interesting to see how the fig production works out in such a Figenstein. Mike __________________ Pauca sed matura.

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1390939928	Reply with quote #37

Winter blues as we're "snowed in" here in south LA. A bit of a wintry mix with nothing really sticking and the whole city is shut down. It's a great day to take fig inventory. Here is the tree now I count about 26 peripheral sites where I can add new grafts. I can also add a few on the lower tier main branches for an internal understory. Current surviving grafts: LSU purple (?) Neighbor's Celeste Violette de Bourdeaux Panache Magnolia/Brunswick Alma Conradia Black Mission Hardy Chicago unknown Bronx Yellow from jimmychao (thread on this site) Scotts Black Champagne "Native Black" Becnel Belle Chase, LA Kathleen Davis White (local fig) Black Bethlehem So that makes 15 grafts that took. Two or three(Panache, VdB) are not looking so hot though. I lost these, including the rooted cuttings (I think), though I have a date to collect new cuttings from all of the LSU specimens next month : Kadota 1 Paridiso st Jerome Unknown yellow from local source Neri 2 Galban LSU specimens: LSU Gold O'Rourke Hollier Hunt LSU Purple Tiger Marseille I have these 24 cuttings ready to go in the fridge, plus whatever cuttings of prior losses I discover amongst the many potted yearlings. Some are ebay, others are from generous members here. Many many thanks to those here who provided any of the listed cuttings!! Armenian Italian Honey Paris Purple Acciano Dottato (Kadota) Salce Trojan Calabrese Morocco Green Ischia Excel Galbun Bealle FN Paradiso Bronze Panachee Conadria Early UCR 135-15 Bealle The LSUs: LSU Gold O'Rourke Hollier Hunt LSU Purple Tiger Marseille I have 6 rolls of parafilm, a block of wax, a box of rubber bands, and a sharpened grafting knife ready to go!

Aaron4USA

Registered:1375832059
Posts: 2,969

Posted 1390984972	Reply with quote #38

@brackishfigger, I am speechless. What a determination! what zone are you in, location? may you have a very fruitful season this year;)

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1390985861	Reply with quote #39

Hi, 14 varieties on a tree is already good - especially if you plan to have some fruits out of the tree. I wouldn't add more varieties to that one. Is Frankenfig meant to have brothers and systers ? Perhaps time to consider that option ? You seem to still have lots of lawn space to make some new trees ... The choice is yours of course ... It is said that if you leave the original variety to grow, that will weaken the grafts as those branches will wick all the sap . By the way, are you growing other fig trees and getting good harvest ? __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

nycfig

Registered:1380768118
Posts: 884

Posted 1391005828	Reply with quote #40

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." __________________ Danny NYC Z7a It's all about the figs! Facebook: NYCfigs Buying Fig Trees and Cuttings From the Internet

brackishfigger

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Posts: 270

Posted 1391018907	Reply with quote #41

It is my understanding that a grafted branch more or less becomes a part of the original. Most every graft on my tree repaces a leader at the periphery of an already well-pruned tree. Unless i am approaching the maximal natural spread of the tree (not so based on the mama it came from nor based on the clone growing in NC), i expect each graft to give me 3-10' of fruit-producing spread. I do wonder regarding the vigor of the individual cultivars, and the limitations in growth if some of the individual grafts were poorly matched, cambium to cambium. Can time adequately resolve such imperfections? I have entertained placing a ring of 4-8 rootstock around the tree and training them up to meet, and be grafted to, each of the horizontal braches, ultimately free of foliage themselves (or not), simply existing to lend robustness in both mechanical and metabolic sense. Can you imagine such a jungle gym? I got nothing but time and winter day dreams.

james

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Posts: 1,653

Posted 1391020937	Reply with quote #42

This is a beautiful tree. I like the idea of living supports. I've long thought the Japanese style espalier would be a great format for a multi-variety grafting project. For me, I have always though of it as a way of trialling a variety before giving it a more permanent place in the field. __________________ In containers - Littleton, CO (zone 5b) In ground - N.E of Austin, TX (zone 8b) 2016 Wish List: Dārk Pōrtuguese, Grānthāms Royāl, Lātarolla, Negrettā, Nōire de Bārbentāne, Rockāway Green, Viōlet Sepōr, Viōlette Dāuphine. Iranian figs are always welcome.

DesertDance

Registered:1247674606
Posts: 4,518

Posted 1391023872	Reply with quote #43

I love this thread! Wow! Amazing information! You will help a lot of people with limited space! Congrats on your Frankenfig! Suzi __________________ Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!" Wish List: I wish all of you happy fig collecting! My wishes have been fulfilled!

brackishfigger

Registered:1366681613
Posts: 270

Posted 1392958595	Reply with quote #44

I got ample replacement cuttings for all of the LSU figs today, along with three persimmon varieties and one mulberry (Shangri-La), out at the LSU orchard. Many thanks to my helpful host. Feels like spring today, its hard to believe I didn't get to grafting 'til May last year. I'm sure I'll hit it earlier this year.

Cajun

Registered:1329745637
Posts: 204

Posted 1393253524	Reply with quote #45

That is one cool tree. I think you should go for the living supports jungle gym approach. That would be awesome. Congrats on having the coolest fig tree in LA. PS here comes winter again... __________________ Cal - Brusly, LA Zone 9a

brackishfigger

Registered:1366681613
Posts: 270

Posted 1394940542	Reply with quote #46

Did a boatload of grafting today. Used a modification of my tongue/whip grafts I found on a persimmon grafting site, scraping the bark down to the cambium on the scion over which is draped a piece of bark pealed back from the rootstock. I replaced all of the LSU orchard varieties, plus Smith, plus several of the new scion listed above. I have many left and about 14 spots on the rootstock. Is there a difference between Conadria and Conadria Early? Bealle and Bealle FN? Conadria has leafed out earliest for me this year. 9 grafts survived the winter. Many borderline grafts did not survive our terrible winter, down to 18 once and many time to the low 20s. Not typical down here.

saxonfig

Registered:1258080612
Posts: 1,370

Posted 1394946244	Reply with quote #47

I really like that graft. I'd never seen the bark peeled back and used in that way. It stands to reason though that the more cambium surfaces you have in contact with each other the better your odds of success should be. I will have to give it a try this spring. Thanks for sharing that. Looking forward to seeing more progress pics of that awesome "Frankenfig" tree this summer :-) . __________________ Fig Well And Prosper! Bill - SW KY. Zone 6b. 36.5N I'm fruitnut on ebay.

brackishfigger

Registered:1366681613
Posts: 270

Posted 1394981290	Reply with quote #48

Thanks Bill, it looked good to me too. As I looked though, isn't that xylem on the undersurface of the peeled bark, not cambium? I wonder if I increase the cambium matching at all. On a few, I shaved away some of the undersurface to expose some green. We'll see. . . Several of your figs went on this week: Italian Honey Algerian Armenian Paris Purple Acciano Salce Troiano Calabrese

brackishfigger

Registered:1366681613
Posts: 270

Posted 1396744909	Reply with quote #49

I counted 31 new varieties on 70 individual grafts today. Most varieties got an end graft (using either bark or whip/tongue) and 1 or 2 chip/escutcheon grafts. 60 or so are looking great, and only 2-3 varieties show really poor progress on any of their grafts. here are a few pics I tried a new (lazy) graft using a saw to cut a groove atop a branch, I cut a V into the scion and taped it in after taking this pic. This ischia green graft is looking good. I got the idea from some bonsai sites. They use a looped-around branch or a temporarily-adjacent smaller tree to create new branches. Inosculation, or approach grafting. We'll see if it works with an unrooted scion as above. OTOH, I was able to do a true approach graft using a different ischia green from another source that I rooted last year. I approach grafted it onto the same branch as the one above, only a few inches closer to the trunk You can see both of those grafts here with two others, right to left: approach graft, (bottom) "lazy" graft, cleft graft, (top) whip graft my galban is giving me figs! A few chip grafts More Morroccan I have brebas on both of my main figs, my freestanding/ungrafted and the frankenfig, but on none of the grafts from last year

PepperMan

Registered:1391817274
Posts: 109

Posted 1396746435	Reply with quote #50

You are a mad scientist, awesome pics! __________________ Chad New Jersey, Zone 6B Wish List: Col de Dame Gris, Col de Dame Noir. I have small trees for trade starting in May! PM me if interested.

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