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papayamon

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 



got a black madiera that was purchased and sent to me by a good friend this spring.  and it has been my only fig that hasn't grown.  not at all.  i have tried everything with this plant.  i don't dare repot it, because i'm afraid the roots are fragile.   any ideas are welcome.  what can i do to get this sickly thing growing?
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mike
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Posted Reply with quote  #2 

Hi Mike,
dont feel too bad, i have sickly ischia.
My madeira came to me as a potted ucdavis plant via a forum member.
Last season i got it to grow with heavy doses of fertilizer when soil would allow and as much sun and heat as my climate could provide it grew slow then picked up mid summer to nearly 30 inches i then topped it or nipped it as some say. It grew some side shoots and a few figs and the FMV looked better i picked all except 1 fig but season came to a close mind you last season here really stunk weather wise.
This season i did the fig shuffle as i usually do in and out of garage with all my plants mid to high 40s they were all on driveway sunning then back in at night.
My Madeira started budding out nicely then little by little those new shoots turned dark and that was it. For it did not like the mid 40s after bud break.
Today the plant is dead to about 6 inches above soil line with 1 lone branch growing about same size from under soil thats it.

Edit: i sent you pic of ischia black last season and almost exactly a year later.
 

My ischia black my most troublesome plant did better in exact conditions as madeira yet a small more severely infected plant it had about 2 inches on each of its 2 branches dead so i cut and sealed. I always give it full dose of fertilizer soon as soil allows and this season gave it some fish juice from when i went fishing right out of the 5 gallon bucket fish were in,  the 2 branches are small with bud on each that keep openeing and growing but very very slowly this is why plant stays so small , each limb grows no more than 4-5 inches and then i lose back 2 inches from storage last couple seasons.
I have been watching 2 figs grow on each branch since 5 days back and yesterday i knocked em off as i said no your not going to tease me and take up vegatative energy away from your limbs you came out to late to ripen .
RIght now the plant is in a black bucket for heat and sitting on top of my jeeps car roof in full sun to give as much heat as possible. This season it may surpass last 2 seasons of growth time will tell. Although the plant does not look like much i actually enjoy trying to get it to perhaps one season surprise me, i like a challenge and this one gives it to me .
Thought i would share with you as we might be in same boat.  
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Posted Reply with quote  #3 

All of my black madeira are pretty much in the same boat, i don't think of it as sickly, maybe just not quite as fast of a grower as everything else.  it will get there, just be patient and don't over-care for it.
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Actually that looks pretty normal. Water it, let it stand for a hour, and re-water with very diluted Miracle-go once a week.
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paully22

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
My blk maderia grew very little too. Now I give it diluted MG on every watering. It gets full sun. Hope something positive happens.

Blk Ischia is the worst -- 2 seasons, 2 leaves about 2 plus inches.
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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
My Black Ischia for the first year was the same as Paully22's but last year it grew a whole foot! This year not much growth but it is loaded with figs. It was very hurt and set back by FMV, one of the worst examples I've seen. I'm hoping this year it outgrew the effects as it is looking great.
Sue
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Posted Reply with quote  #7 

the important thing is that the terminal bud is nice and green and healthy looking.  You should have nothing to worry about - hang in there!!!
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
I  bought 2 Black Madeiras off eBay from members of this forum.  When I got these trees they were very sad and according to the seller the trees were not growing.  After 10 months, I was able to get these trees growing and now producing fruit.  Here is what I did and it might work for you: 1.  Soak the tree in some root stimulator for about an hour.  I used 4 tablespoons per gallon of water.  I have one of those tiny gallon bucket from the dollar store.  Placed each tree in their own bucket and poured the stimulator water solution and let it soak.  2. I got a 3 gallon superpot, now the right size superpot would have been a 1 gallon pot cause these trees were small but I planned keeping these trees inside this pot for at least 2 years.  3.  Get yourself a very airy soil medium.  Me?  I chose PRO-MIX BX, added some turface and cow manure.  I also added a 10 inch diameter piece of weed guard and place it in the bottom of the pot and I wet the soil with the remaining root stim mixture and potted up the trees.  My trees had 2 or 3 small leaves when I potted it.  A couple of months later, this was last September, the tree started to grow.  Then Fall came and it went dorminant.

I placed both trees inside my garage over the winter and in March they were the first trees to bud and leaf out!  Well, now its July and both trees have almost out grown their virus.  I have them both in full sun and they are both 21 inchs tall and still growing.  I fertilizer them once in April, once in May, twice in June and now weekly liquid feed of 6-2-4. 

Now this worked for me and I am not sure it will work for you, but maybe you can give it  a try.  Good luck! 

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
It looks alive and well to me.

I have other variants that did the same but as long as it is still alive there's still some home.

I have about three that are just starting to show some movement.

Good luck
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Posted Reply with quote  #10 

From looking at the picture, it looks like there might be scale or something sucking on three veigns on the top leaf. You might want to look closely at this thing and remove them. It could be having a hard time with bugs. Good luck, Gary
papayamon

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
in all honesty, if this is normal for this variety, probably it's not a variety i want to mess around with much.   i have started hitting it with rooting stimulator fertilizer.  i suppose we'll see what happens.

what other varieties are typically so weak?  my other puny figs, though they are growing, are dauphine, vdb and one of those numbered figs, i can't recall the #. :).

this is interesting because sal's corelone, a rare fig, is such an incredibly vigorous grower.  pretty much i have to count on taking my figs and popping them in the ground and they live through several freezes and come back from the roots the next year.  this thing would never make the winter here in gainesville.  i guess i'll give it to my dad in clearwater.
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mike
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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Papayamon you ask what other varieties are weak.
This one my ischia black but its grown on me for some reason maybe because its so stuborn like my Yorkie dog.
Next early season i try to graft onto my fastest growing Ronde no no not the dog the plant.
Here picture correctly dated almost exactly one year ago 3 days shy.

Attached Images
jpeg Ischia_1.jpg (243.71 KB, 46 views)
jpeg Ischia_Black_2.jpg (229.48 KB, 48 views)
genecolin

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Martin, I have a Black Ischia that looks exactly like yours, or it did. Lately it started growing a little. At first I thought it was gonna die, but it struggles on. The fact that it finally put on a little growth encourages me to think it will make it.
"gene"
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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Mike good luck with yours, it looks much better then mine. I'm having a real hard time with mine also It looked better at one point and now looks like it is ready to kick the bucket again.
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papayamon

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 

i say we know why this is such a rare variety.  it basically sucks :).
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mike
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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
it's simply amazing the difference in growth among varieties.  my dad has a 3 node green ischia cutting i gave him in march.  it's 6 feet tall now.
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mike
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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Here is my maderia last season and with 1 fig i left on (they came out late, plant young) that had no red eye at this point but then turned red later .
Here this season , was about 30 inches tall had sprouted shoots some several inches out but i left on driveway in mid 40s a big no no as everything died to where i cut main this season. Still there is several more inches dead if you look carefully and for now i dont see anything peeking out on the main branch.
As said early post it sprouted right below soil level, if it makes it thru winter storage i will treat it differently in early spring and hold it back some.
Little by little im learning how difficult some types of figs not recommended for my area can be like this 1 and panache, but it would be nice instead or sirloin to see if i might be able to taste filet mignon , time will tell. 

Attached Images
jpeg Madeira_5.jpg (109.28 KB, 38 views)
jpeg Madeira_1.jpg (173.04 KB, 32 views)
jpeg Madeira_8.jpg (315.57 KB, 34 views)
pitangadiego

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Once it gets going, it is unstoppable - as much as 10' of growth in a year. Fertilizer seems to be really important in the early years.
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nelson20vt

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Mike my Black Yugoslavian fig did the exact same thing I rooted it last year in July it grew 5 leaves and about 2 inches of growth between july 09 to april 2010. I got so sick of this darn plant in May I took it to my dads put it on top of the garage the hottest part of the property and put a handfull of 10-10-10 slow release fertilizer. It was due or die time and now it is 3ft tall and loaded with figs. Black Yugoslavian is also infected with FMV Pretty. With that being said I dont want anymore plants that behave this way I dont have the patience regardless of how good it might taste.
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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Most of the cuttings (all from UCD) I rooted this year are in similar shape (or dead). The FMV is very obvious on some of them, but there's considerable variety in its effect upon the different plants. My black madeira seems healthy to me (no wilting), and although the leaves are mottled and deformed they seem to have darkened over time. It stopped growing a few weeks ago--that small leaf seems frozen in time--but I'm hoping it will pick up again once the summer rains start and things cool off a little.

I'm envious of the growth rates many of you are reporting for your young fig plants. The best stem growth any of my recent batch of cuttings have shown is an excel: two tiny branches, the longest of which is 3 inches with four small leaves. So, comparatively speaking, my weird-looking black madeira isn't all that far behind the rest of the pack.

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jpeg Black_Madiera_14_July_2010.jpg (80.44 KB, 16 views)


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Ken
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papayamon

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 

i am gonna take my tape measure and record the heights of a couple of my faster growing plants, and i 'll do it again in a week :P.  then we'll see who's really pouring it on :).
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mike
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Posted Reply with quote  #22 

...Or rubbing it in! A tape measure? Even one of those short little plastic rulers they use in grade school would be major overkill for mine right now!
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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
I have a Col de Dame that looks very much like Martin's pictures in post #12 on this page.  Very deformed leaves.  None of my Black Madeira have this issue (some BM are from a forum member in NY, some from UCD, Col De Dame original source was UCD also)
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
I think BM really likes the fertilizer and the heat. One of mine is about 6 foot now with some short branches and a couple of figs. UCD cutting circa spring 2009 I think, so second summer-- a fellow cutting had lingered at about 6 inches to a foot until I buried all the old wood and socked the fertilizer to it. Now a couple of feet tall at least.
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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Scott, that Madeira i showed was one you sent me of the 3 from UcDavis you propagated and you did a fantastic job giving them the head start you did Scott. I take it personal when i mess up something someone else gives me, if it was my own scion grown its not such a big deal then but someone else's i feel bad.
It grew like i mentioned 30 inches and would have grown taller but i topped it last season, i wish i would have known that it did not like my early spring 40 something temps and killed most of that growth .
 But i learned a lot from this plant and will do things different next spring if i can keep it going till then.
I saw what it was capable of that was the hard part to digest for me but was so glad when it resprouted from just below soil.
Time will tell .
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Posted Reply with quote  #26 

I also have one Black Madeira,and it have two trunks:
One look healthy,with large entire leaf,and about 5 large figs on it.
The second going the oposite way is very ill with FMVirus,and have 3 very small stunted fruits.
This is a 3 yr old plant,and it spent last winter inground with good protection.
It came out of winter with minimal damage.
I am sure I will have ripe figs this year,because the fruits are allready in the stagnation fase.
I also have 10 fruits on my Black Ischia,inground too,and last year it died almost totally,and this Spring grew from roots has 3 trunks and 10 figs in good shape.
I am going to have ripe figs from Black Ischia too!.
If it ever die I will let you guys know.
It is only a experiment,and I do not expect ever ,that these trees will be worth more than a few ripe,fruits in some years.
These rare cultivars are not to be based on,for fruits production.

For large production,have a couple of Marseilles vs Black,Sal(Gene strain),JH Adriatic,or Atreano,and then you will be covered,and can afford to have fun experimenting,with, those exquisite rare cultivars.
paully22

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Herman - Thanks for the good advise. I have an in-ground MVS, a young potted JH, Sal's EL and Atreano RR & OR. I look forward to yummy years. Oh
 yes, like you said about Gino, it does set figs at least 2 weeks earlier than MVS. This is good for my zone. I hope its bountiful too.

paully
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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
I hope y'all don't mind me resurrecting an older thread, but I finally got pictures of my Black Ischia. I received it as a small bare root tree from a CA friend just breaking dormancy. It put on leaves and looked pitiful and stayed that way for a couple of months. I put it in full sun and fed it MG liquid fertilizer. About a month ago it started to grow a side branch. The original trunk never did grow but the new branch is shooting for the moon. It has grown about a foot and has pretty little figs all over it. Should I knock off all or most of the figs?
"gene"

 

The original trunk.


The new healthy branch


The pretty little figs



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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Gene you have something very very special there at least in my book of figs and i cannot wait to see your pictures of them ripe figs.
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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Martin I'll try to remember to post pictures as they ripen, if they do. They do look pretty now.

tmc your guess is as good as mine. All the info I've read is sort of contradictory. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
"gene"
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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Oh Gene i will help you remember as well around end of September.
This is one type of fig that always has gotten my interest.
From what i have read over the fig forums ischia black and madeira are some of the finest dark types there are.
Its my aim to find that out for my personal taste in my climate.
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Posted Reply with quote  #32 

on the topic of leaf deformity from post #12 - Martin, here is my Col De Dame (UCD) - it is the really deformed one in the center (sorry, didn't have time to isolate it)

good example of FMV distorting leaves.

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jpeg col-de-dame_UCD.jpg (205.65 KB, 286 views)


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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #33 

well, i am going in the ground with the black madiera tommorrow, come hell or high water, to sink or swim just like all my other figs.  this winter i'll make sure it has special protection if it's still alive.
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Posted Reply with quote  #34 

i'll snap some pics of mine, it's uncanny the resemblance :)
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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
Mike--I tried Oxankle's "roots in the water" trick with my black madeira and it's starting to show results. The terminal bud swelled up and is now opening, and lower down on the stem a tiny new leaf has popped out. It's still slow, but it's definitely growing again.

Almost all of the other UCD cuttings responded more vigorously to the additional water--lots of new leaves. I'm also giving them Miracle Grow with most waterings, and the humidity has gone up sharply with the start of our summer rainy season. I don't know for sure which factor triggered the growth (maybe all three), but when I increased the water the terminal buds started swelling within 3-4 days.
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Posted Reply with quote  #36 

she's in the ground on her own right now.  i do have a shadecloth cover over her for a few days to give the roots a chance to adjust.
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Posted Reply with quote  #37 

OK, I lied.  My "twin" is actually Preto, which may be the same as Black Madeira, it's not very clear (some say yes, some say no).


Pic:

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jpeg figs_022.jpg (103.66 KB, 177 views)


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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
Preto looks good Jason. Mine is doing well also.

JD

PS: Hobart grew about 26"...
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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
Hobart is freaking nuts! Did you see the pics of the fruit I posted?

One of those little twigs of Foxcroft you supplied has been exploding (relativelt) as well - and the Col De Dame above... Thanks ;)
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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
@ Hobart. Agreed, it is a bad mad man. I saw the fruit. Waiting to see it ripe...

@ Foxcroft. Trying to ID it. Thus I have plans to photograph and sample the mother tree on Friday. In this area, likely to be Celeste but you never know.

@ Stallion. Need to send you a Stallion. ALL cuttings are in 1+ gallon pots, ALL are at least 2' tall, and each has put out at least 6 fruit. I planted one in ground and knocked off all fruit except for three on one tree. Will take a few snapshots soon.

JD
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Posted Reply with quote  #41 
Stallion is a kind of fig tree?

noss
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noss/a.k.a. Vivian Lafayette, LA Zone 9a Wish List: Col de Dame Blanc, Col de Dame Noir, Scott's Yellow, Tony's Brown Italian, any other fig that is good in the rain/humidity and has a real figgy flavor.
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Posted Reply with quote  #42 
noss,

It is an unknown that I found at the Stallion Range Center, WSMR, NM (see 1 and 2). Don't want to hijack this thread so I will bump one of the two soon.

JD
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Posted Reply with quote  #43 
Aha, thanks for the clarification.  I read the other thread and those are great photos.

Thanks JD,

noss
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noss/a.k.a. Vivian Lafayette, LA Zone 9a Wish List: Col de Dame Blanc, Col de Dame Noir, Scott's Yellow, Tony's Brown Italian, any other fig that is good in the rain/humidity and has a real figgy flavor.
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