I can't remember reading any extensive discussions about the type of soils and growing conditions in which Ficus carica evolved.

Do we plant our trees in amended soils that are too rich, loamy, and overly fertile?  This leads to rapid, but soft growth, long internodal spaces, and probably weak trees.   They grow too fast and too soft?  

Should we plant our trees in soils that duplicate the soils found in the Mid-Eastern and Mediterranean countries?  Rocky, thin, lime-rich grits, with a minimum of organic matter? 

I just saw a TV show about vineyards, and I learned that the best wine, and the best tasting grapes come from vines that must struggle to keep alive, and must grow in dry, rocky-gritty, not very fertile, soils.  So naturally my mind went to our fig trees, and whether or not these sparse soils work with fig trees?  Certainly the opposite of most soils in which we plant our trees.

Is there anything to this?  Maybe the soils that we use are really not the best in which to grow figs.

Just thought I'd ask for your thoughts.

Frank

Well take for example- Negretta-aka-'Rock Fig'. Supposedly grows in dry rocky areas along roads and barren areas.

Alot of people swear by the Gritty rocky mix but I have had success in a lot of different soil mixes in just experimenting.

The one that failed was a sandy, loam, humus mix. Just didn't grow. 

Let take Ischia off Naples. It a volcanic island. The fruits are considered by most the gold standard. Does the rich pumice soil help with it's establishment?

Madeira Island is another volcanic spot that produces another possible high standard fig.

So soil may play an integral part in the quality, production and growth.

I think there is a lot of validity to what you are both saying. Remember though, that we are growing these trees in pots with very limited root run. In the wild the roots can roam free searching for nutrients and moisture. I would guess that those trees with harsh growing conditions in the wild are not as productive as those others with better conditions. Thankfully figs are pretty adaptive overall.  

I think that soil is an important component in the cultivation of figs. The fig is not so demanding on soil type as mach as climate if it gets enough sun and heat they will do good. Look at my post weird figs and you will see they grow with out any soil.

The ranges of plants growing in nature are often determined not by where they seem to commonly grow, but rather by what out-competes them in a better environment. We may think of figs growing on volcanic slopes or rocky outcrops because that's where they've been found in nature. Yet maybe that's because nothing else is able to grow as well there as well as they can.  Yet in native situations on deep valley floors where other things do really well (and where figs might actually do better) perhaps they simply are crowded out. I've seen orchards of figs on bottom land that are large and lush - perhaps because nothing else is allowed to grow with them.

In addition, as BLB says, we often grow figs in containers which creates an entirely different scenerio. We all are also growing figs in vastly different climates. Here in my part of the west, we get no summer rains. If I tried to grow a fig in some of the more gritty mixes some use, I would have to water at least 2 twice a day or they would wither and die in a week.

Very good points being made, and very interesting observations.

Let's agree that figs are very adaptable and thrive in less than optimal growing conditions...I was just wondering if they will do better in volcanic, sparse, gritty-type soils, loaded with limestone?  Can some climates in the US be too far different that the sun-drenched hills in Italy, Greece, Jordan, Turkey, etc?

Aside from containerized figs, which are a special case, I just wonder if the figs we plant would be far stronger vegetatively, if grown hard, rather than grown soft, lush, and full of big leaves?

I guess I will never know the answer because we all grow differently, in different mediums, and under very different conditions, yet manage to have healthy, productive trees.

Thanks for the input.

Frank

Frank,
Actually, I see it as a balancing act, each plant has it's own specific basic requirements for the amount of light, water, nutrients, warmth, air.
Some need more water, some less, some more light, some less, etc.
Figure out what a plants basic requirements are, and you can grow them anywhere! As people have done for thousands of years!

After 50 years of gardening experience , you said something that for me is a "red flag" about plant growth. Perhaps this will be of help to you.

"This leads to rapid, but soft growth, long internodal spaces, and probably weak trees.   They grow too fast and too soft?  "

And from 50 years of experience growing plants, I know that problem very well! and the problem you discribed in your statement is simply,
Not enough sun light!

I was born in Connecticut, and lived there until I was 16 yo.
But, every fall we went to my grandparents farm in Virginia for 2 weeks. And the biggest thing I remember about Virginia is the sun is so much more intense than in Connecticut which is 500 miles north of VA.
After living in Virginia for 30 years, I went on vacation in Florida, I imediately noticed that In Florida, sunlight is even more intense than Virginia!

My point is this, If your trees came from a very strong sunshine state, they probably would advise you to grow your trees in a shady spot, or morning sun only. Well, that's fine for them, they have strong sun intensity which is more than what the trees need in Florida. They have to grow them in the shade or morning sun, or they'd burn up!

Where you live in NY it takes a week to get a tan, not a day!
In NY city, if you grow a sun lover in the shade, you might as well grow them in a closet! They'll need every last second of sunlight they can get there to survive! Let alone be healthy!

And another thing, With grape vines, you can grow them in any kind of soil, any kind of heat, etc. But, if you withhold water for the last 3 weeks while their grapes are ripening to concentrate the berries sugar,  they will be just as sweet and delicious anywhere as California grapes, if not better, because they got better treatment! 2/3rds of our countries grapes come from South America BTW.

Use your logical brain, don't over think it!
Figure out what your growing conditions are, know what your plant needs to do well and make adjustments for them accordingly..
If you live in the north where the sun's intensity is poor, give them as much of it you possibly can .
if in the south or west, with too much sun, give them more shade from the hot afternoon sun..
Too much heat, give them a slight breeze, and create high humidity around them.
A good growing rule I learned a long time ago: "As heat increases, so must air flow, and humidity" or the plant will become non-productive, sicken, then dies. Knowledge + adjustment!

I see posts asking  if they should keep they're cutting outside in 102 degree heat! If it's that hot where you live, you might want to consider keeping your cuttings inside!
heat = stress = more water
in other words, the hotter it gets ts the more water it needs!
But, how can they with no roots?
So, Keep your cuttings cool inside if temps start to go above 80 degrees F
Problem solved.

Thanks Dan...everyone....

Very interesting discussion.  I do like to think about cultural conditions, but without any science to back up my observations, I always will be in doubt about many things I do by gut instinct.

I think I learned some new ways to think about my figs, and that was the purpose of the questions.

Frank

Here's a map of the various Med climates of the world. Easy to see how more widespread and atypical the 'original' Mediterranean climate is.

In my long experience of gardening, you can grow anything, anywhere,
if all you create is just the bare minimum of a growing environment.
Sometimes it grows better, sometimes it grow worse.

Or It could be as simple as,,,,

Perhaps figs get more from fig wasps than just casual sex!?!

or evening dew?, a southern wind only is required?

I'd guess the trick is working out all the variables.
We live on a very adaptve planet.
And that's why there are scientists in the world!

Frank, You can always apply for a million dollar Government grant to figure it out! That could be interesting!

Frank - to your point on the grapevines - the "very best" fruit are grown in poor soil.  It encourages the vine to dig into the earth and look for nutrients from the subsoil, emparting "mineral" complexity and lower yeilds!!.  They also do not produce fruit that is considered "great" for up to 25 years, and the wineries have the budget (and other producing vines) to wait that long. Less than 1% of the wine grown would fall into any special category and maybe only 1% of the 1% would be truly great, old vines, with the noticable extra complexity.

I have been fortunate enough to taste some of this "great" wine vs good wine, and think in the way that this board considers a BT bland but a IB great (not that I have this experience), most of us would vastly prefer a ripe BT over nothing.  In wine, generally it is conceded that the effort (or money) spent for the best is not proportional to the incremental improvement in taste.

I would guess that a ancient old fig tree with roots cluching to a rocky cliff side would produce a special fig.

But, I want my figs this year, I want lots of them, and i live in Toronto where pots are the option, so want soil that keeps the trees hydrated in the pots on my driveway.  Maybe growing in pots actually replicate some of the harsh conditions you mention.

Just my opinion.

Wonderful, and very technical answers to my casual musings.  Full of very interesting facts, and information.

There are no simple answers, to my simple questions.  I'm still glad I asked because I/we now know some more information about our figs.

I can see now that grape vines and fig trees are very different, and my speculations do not even come close to being valid.  Sorry for the side-tracking.  It was interesting to learn why I was wrong.

Thanks so much for posting this information.

Frank

Color map of The Soils of France:  http://www.dijon.inra.fr/la_science_et_vous/biologie_des_sols

There is a lot of variation in the soil types.

It's in French so you may wish to paste the link into google translate.

John
zone 9b

I can say Dan is so right, at least where the sun is concerned!  In most parts of the country when buying plants/trees, they may say "full sun" which means 6-8 hours of direct sun per day.  Here, buying the same plants that say "full sun" HAS to be changed for the intensity of the sun!  The nursery I frequent says 4-5 hours is OK for full sun plants.  I have some plants on the west side of the garage for full sun , drought tolerant because the sun starts about noon or so and it is so intense right there.  Last year I planted a re tomatoes - they just desiccated in the ground and stayed green too!

My fig tree get sun from 7am or so till 3:30 and seems to be quite happy.  It has fairly short nodes and has budded out on the lowest part of the trunk and is growing a few more branches :)

My other point is just about general health of a specimen, whatever it may be.  You can have a plant (or person for that matter)  that is alive and getting the basic  needs met - but - is it thriving and living to its fullest potential?