Condit's Bordeaux. Identical with the commercial variety 'Petite Negri

Condit's Bordeaux is usually and appropriately called Negronne in Bordeaux

(Burnley 1896) Facciola 1990 lists Negronne [Bordeaux, Violette de Bordeaux]

I have Sal's Fig & Negronne (aka Violette de Bordeaux)

Negronne - (Note: Condit calls this variety Bordeaux.

Synonyms: Beer's Black, Bordeaux, Petite Figue Violette, Violette de Bordeaux

Violette de Bourdeaux, also called Negronne is a delightful fig

This fig is Negronne: The name Petite Negri was given Ischia Black by a Frenchman in the late 19th century. It was eventually imported into the U.S. and became confused with Negronne in a commercial nursery. (An understandable error since the very young, reddish-brown fruit is easily confused with that of Negronne

SO.......

Is a Petite Negri, Negronne, Violette de Bordeaux and Condit's Bordeaux all the same?

Hi Charles,
I do not know about the Negronne or Conduit's Bordeaux,
but Petite Negri and Violette De Bordeaux are not the same fig.
I purchased both from E.L.  last year.
Leaf patterns are different as are growth and fruiting habit.
They came bare  root. As soon as the Petite Negri  started to leaf out it also started to produce main crop figs. The VDB did not produce any all season. This spring, a similar story. The P.N. is producing breba, so  far the VDB has not.
The petite negri seems to be a more  vigourous plant.

Grant
z5b

Charles,

    I am confused by this, too. When I refer to my notes regarding Negronne, they say:
Negronne FN Syn. Violette de Bordeaux, Aubique (Burnt Ridge Nursery cv) "In 1692, a description by La Quintinie (translated by Evelyn) referred to the Angélique fig as "of a violet color and long but not very big, the pulp red and reasonably good." Both Cupani (1696) and Tournefort (1700) described Angélique as a violet fig." Excerpted from Condit. Hence the proper epithet is Angélique. [This description does not conform to photographs of pulp from Encanto Farms.]

I don't know if this helps or confuses the issue.

Since there is not eonough of a confusion, I would also like to add Vista to the mix.


Frank

Charles.

Yes and No. The odds are that all of those figs, whether the same or different (at one time) have all been sold using any or all of those names, so that you could get any one of them by ordering any one of them. And probably many other names, as well.

Dale,

The point of the photographs at F4F is to document the figs in the collection. There is not, will not be, and could not be any way to reconcile every accession with what it might "really" be. I have the same problem with my banana collection: i have pix of everything in the collection, but there is no known set of standards to compare them with, so I can only suspect that some are not correctly labeled, such as when a dwarf tree is twice the size it should be.

On the flip side, when I sell a fig plant, I can say, here are the pix of what it does here, but we know that with figs, "your results may vary" depending on soil, weather, fertilizer, breed of neighbor's dog, etc. As an example, everything I bought from Paradise Nursery (in Virginia) was not recognized by Sybil, when it was grown here, under different conditions.

Vista has been DNA tested and is the same as VdB at USDA/UC Davis. Short of DNA testing every tree in the country (can you say $$$$$$$$$$), you will never know what is the same, and what is different.  I have 2 dozen Celeste variants from all over the country. They all were tested at Davis and are the same by DNA, but they definitely do NOT all perform the same, here, in as identical conditions as I can give them.

Can I just say I find the names and name variants very confusing as a newbie? I nearly ordered the Violette de Bordeaux (in fact, I did actually order it) then in my reading I saw that Negronne is also known as VdB and I had to turn around and cancel that particular purchase as I already own Negronne. So confusing. I thought I was getting two different purple/dark fig varieties, but I guess not.

Nichole, Welcome to the "fun" part of figs. ;-))))))))))))

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts,

I suppose that I will get as many as space and time will allow and perform my own observations here in my 8b garden in Pensacola Florida.

I failed to mention in the original post but I read somewhere that several of these were variants of Alma.

I am trying to root Alma but no luck so far. I have the Petite Negri to the potted up stage, the VDB and Negronne are in the rooting stage. My next step would be to get cuttings of Condit's Bordeaux and I might as well throw in Ischia Black for comparison.

I have the Ischia Green* (not that it is confused too just a note) potted as well as EL Green. In the ground I have a suspected LSU Purple, Brown Turkey, Italian Strawberry? and a Lemon Fig. I believe the Lemon fig has a confused name trail and possibly the Italian Strawberry does too.

One thing I know for sure, I'll enjoy the eating part of the comparison. LOL

Thanks again and please submit more comments if you wish,

Charles

* Well I visited Kiwibob's web site and it seems even my Green Ischia is confused and maybe it is a "Verte".

Is it not possible what Pit is saying is the most true?  Perhaps they are the same fig but different accessions, different levels of fmv infections and different sports from the same mother could result in the same tree but in a different tree at the same time.  My negrone doesn't really look like my VdB (UCD) it is more vigorous slightly different leaves but one is a year old and one is a half year old so I can't really tell other than growth habit of 4 months which instead of a bush it grows like a tree.

Jon

   Thanks for the information, and the reminder. Just a comment on the DNA: Depending on how many loci are tested, the test may not be discerning the differences.

I have both "Negronne" from Northwoods/One Green World, and "Petit Negri" from a local collector.  They look similar in most respects except when sliced open, the meat color is always different.

See my website: http://sites.google.com/site/kiwifruitsalad2 for photos of Brebas from both taken in 2002 & 2004 respectively.  The "Negronne" leaf was the most advanced leaf form on the tree rather than the dominant leaf form.

Flavor and overall quality of "Petit Negri" is definitely inferior to "Negronne" in my collection.

Happy Growing,
kiwibob   Seattle

I did the exact same thing. Except by the time I found out Negronne and VDB were the same thing, it was too late to cancel the order. So now I have two, plus a few more cuttings I cut from the long whip of one (purchased with the upper 'dress' tag saying Mission, but the growers tag lower on the base saying VdB). But I don't mind having more than one of that - 'they' were very high on my list of 'I want'.

How do you like your negronnes?    This is the next species on my to-get-list.

Negronne/VdB, most people consider this as better tasting fig. My very first fresh fig off my tree was negronne/VdB. Mine tasted like raspberry. When I let it ripe fully on the tree, it was very very sweet.

Pete

To my knowledge, I've only tasted 3 fig varieties. Mission (excellent), a brown turkey of some sort and a plump green one with pink flesh - the latter two both being insipid, wet, and not worth the calories. These all were fresh off the tree, and picked when ripe from mature trees growing in the sun, so I attribute the blah-ness mainly to the varieties.

When I read everyone talking about how good this one or that one tastes, I can only imagine. :)  And these imagined tastes are why I am now so interested in growing different varieties of figs. And of course 'home grown' is always better.

In my short time here there is one statement that I think I have heard a lot is, I think this **** is not that good but others have found it to be great. Of course that is an paraphrased version but I have heard it enough to believe that just because the tree gows well and fruits well for you doesn't mean that it will taste good or taste good to you. It seems that even disregarding the various likes and dislikes of peoples "taste" a perfectly tasty fig grown in Southern California may not have the same qualities here in the Southeast or Northeast. While my tasting experience is limited I just can't imagine a Brown Turkey tasting insispid. I believe Gina probably has a fine set of taste buds and many others have expessed displeasure with the BT but I just can't imagine a fig tasting so much better that I would think the BT was a poor escuse for a fig!

My Negronne is from Edible Landscaping.  I had a couple last year that were hidden and when I noticed them they were perfectly ripe and very good.  

I believe 'Brown Turkey' is one of those figs with several cultivars. I've read that some can taste quite good and others don't. The one I tasted was growing very near the beach by someone who generously waters everything. They also get much fog. Their grapes don't get very sweet either.

I'm also a 'super taster' along with about 10-20% of the population. Things taste stronger to people like me. Super tasters don't much like coffee, beer, licorice, strong cheeses, most olives, arugula, brussel sprouts, and other bitter/strong things. I don't know how this 'condition' affects other things we taste - like figs.

When you describe a fig like that it sounds like it got too much water while the fruit was ripening. It may taste very different if it was protected from the rain at that time.

The BT that she described is one of the most common figs in my part of the Southeast. Our yearly average is around 65" spread out over about 110 days. It is not uncommon to have almost daily afternoon showers when our figs are ripening. That is why it is important here to have a closed or nearly closed eye. I think there is something else that is causing the wide variance in taste. It may well be our very long hot growing/ripening season as compared to others that maybe start warm amd slowly progress to almost hot. I do not know exactly where Gina lives but she list Coastal So. California. When I hear that I think of the cool Pacific and its tempering effect on the climate. Just speculation but maybe that has something to do with it.

The people who own the fig live 'just across the street' from the ocean. And they water a lot. We only get about 10 to 15 inches of rain/year in our area, but it's all in the winter when the fruits are not ripening.

I also think their fig must the the infamously bland California Brown Turkey which is different from other brown turkeys.

Are your summers highs generally 90 to 100 degrees and lows from 75 to 80+? Our relative humidity is usually over 70% with many days above 80%. Many mornings the humidity is over 90% and when you step outside and take a breath the air feels thick and it is!

Dale, if you have more insight into the DNA "stuff", please contact me. It is a subject that I have had a hard time finding someone who can boil it down to the practical level. I understand what you are saying about enough loci, but how does one know that they have enough loci? I am assuming that a geneticist at USDA would be using an appropriate number of loci, no?

Darkman, you are right on. Climate, locations, etc all interact to determine if a fig performs well at a given location. As for Brown Turkey - I have never tasted one that was worth eating. I do understand that some people think they are dynamite delicious.

No, we are much milder in my part of the coast. Mediterranean climate here. Year round temperatures average from the low 60*F to the high 70s, with it warmer in the summer. It often gets into the 80s, but rarely gets to 100 here - maybe once every 2 years. The low temps average low 40s to about 60, with of course the warmer temps in summer. Frost is unusual. At my home in the foothills, almost never. Humidity is much lower than yours too. It is rarely 'muggy' - only when something from the south finds it's way here. All rain comes in the 'winter' months. Except for fog or 'June gloom' overcast, summers are bone dry.