Nero 600M vs Violette dee Bordeaux Comparison

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johnnyq627

Registered:1366344367
Posts: 710

Posted 1438055301	Reply with quote #1

Nero 600M vs Violette de Bordeaux Comparison: __________________ Nick- Youtube: PA Figs \| eBay: tdepoala Zone 6B/7A - Douglassville, PA Wish list - Galicia Negra, Paritjal Rimada, Black Ischia UCD

philos

Registered:1349018083
Posts: 122

Posted 1438055883	Reply with quote #2

Great video! So you believe they are both equally cold hardy? is the Nero600 reputation as being being real "Hardy" a myth? have you examined their hardiness to identify if one trully lives up to the reputation? I would like to see a comparison of their Hardiness! --As this would be the one variant in both. perhaps... Thanks for sharing! __________________ Jerry - Zone 6B Westchester, New York. 2015 Wish List: Florea, White Greek, Italian 258, Galicia Negra and any M. Pons varieties.

johnnyq627

Registered:1366344367
Posts: 710

Posted 1438073760	Reply with quote #3

I kept both trees in my attached garage last year, so no real hardiness test. __________________ Nick- Youtube: PA Figs \| eBay: tdepoala Zone 6B/7A - Douglassville, PA Wish list - Galicia Negra, Paritjal Rimada, Black Ischia UCD

crazy4figs

Registered:1398600869
Posts: 11

Posted 1438082275	Reply with quote #4

This kind of comparison is very valuable to me as I try to figure out the differences between varieties unknown to me. Thanks! __________________ Ann Zone 6b

brettjm

Registered:1398901785
Posts: 215

Posted 1438084281 · Edited	Reply with quote #5

Curious. Nice post, and useful comparison for those with limited tasting experience (like myself). I've got both as first years, and I will say that they look nothing alike as first year plants...but early development is so variable that its not a useful comparison. A couple followups, however 1) Does VDB make suckers with spade shaped leaves like Nero600m does? 2) Do they have the same cold hardiness? (hopefully someone else can chime in) 3) Do they have the same vigor/growth? This can obviously vary cutting to cutting as well. I recall at least one post where someone called into question the cold hardiness of Nero600m, saying it was not cold hardy for him. May have been a fluke though. Otherwise, seeing as how I'm limited on space, I might have another plant to gift. __________________ In GA, Zone 7b/8a Wish list: more space to put in figs.

johnnyq627

Registered:1366344367
Posts: 710

Posted 1438088475	Reply with quote #6

I'm on business travel right now, so I can't look at my trees right now, but both trees have extremely vigorous growth. __________________ Nick- Youtube: PA Figs \| eBay: tdepoala Zone 6B/7A - Douglassville, PA Wish list - Galicia Negra, Paritjal Rimada, Black Ischia UCD

johnjay7491

Registered:1427833258
Posts: 74

Posted 1438095215	Reply with quote #7

Good video comparison. I would agree the two you have are very similar and quite possibly the same. The VdB and Nero 600m I have both have leaves that are nearly identical to yours. The slight variability of the leaves is probably insignificant since the leaf variability on the same plant can exceed what you show between the two. Several people on this forum have done prior comparisons of VdB and there in no common consensus. It even gets more confusing when you add Negronne, Petite Negri, Petite Negra, Petite Aubique, Vista.... Valle Calda and Valle Negra are also similar figs but various f4f members have figs with different leaf patterns. On the planetfig.com they have a description for Negronne and the leaf pattern is unlike what you have for your Vdb and Nero 600m however the Valle Calda they show looks similar to yours. I suspect there are probably different cultivars often being distributed under the same names to add to the confusion. __________________ John NH Z5

eboone

Registered:1378418906
Posts: 1,100

Posted 1438101163	Reply with quote #8

Quote: Originally Posted by brettjm A couple followups, however 1) Does VDB make suckers with spade shaped leaves like Nero600m does? I can only answer this one - my 3 yr old VdB does have spade like leaves on the suckers. I think that a couple of the first leaves on the main trunk this spring were as well. __________________ Ed Zone 6A - Southwest PA --------------------------- Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid), Col Littman's Black Cross. And any cold hardy early fig.

brettjm

Registered:1398901785
Posts: 215

Posted 1438101361	Reply with quote #9

Quote: Originally Posted by eboone 1) Does VDB make suckers with spade shaped leaves like Nero600m does? I can only answer this one - my 3 yr old VdB does have spade like leaves on the suckers. I think that a couple of the first leaves on the main trunk this spring were as well. That's one more layer to add to the theory that they're the same. Now for cold hardiness.... __________________ In GA, Zone 7b/8a Wish list: more space to put in figs.

AltadenaMara

Registered:1422990132
Posts: 375

Posted 1438117146	Reply with quote #10

What you're calling Violette de Bordeaux has leaves that look entirely different from my two VdBs and the VdB on the Fig Varietal Info website. Is it possible that it was mis-labeled at some point in time? My two VdB both have the same type of leaves. This is my VdB from Dave Wilson Nursery sold at San Gabriel Nursery. My other VdB was an older tree that came from Burkard's Nursery with the name written on the pot. __________________ Mara Southern California Zone 1990= 9b 2012= 10a 2020=?

johnnyq627

Registered:1366344367
Posts: 710

Posted 1438117775	Reply with quote #11

Alta that definitely does not look like VdB. http://www.ourfigs.com/forum/variety-test/3585-violette-de-bordeaux-dfic-63 __________________ Nick- Youtube: PA Figs \| eBay: tdepoala Zone 6B/7A - Douglassville, PA Wish list - Galicia Negra, Paritjal Rimada, Black Ischia UCD

Herman2

Registered:1189809424
Posts: 2,625

Posted 1438120807	Reply with quote #12

Mara's fig is exactly Violette de Bordeaux. A healthy ,Violette de Bordeaux that is. When diseased,it produces small skimpy leaves like what Nick is posting. Nero 600m,on the other hand when healthy ,has long slender finger blades,the central one up to 10 inches long,and all fingers are narrower than on Violette de Bordeaux. Fruits do look similar but there are ,major differencies when fruits ripe under difficult conditions like raining while ripening. In such case Violette becomes almost inedible while Nero 600 is still full of good taste. Nick,If you want to find synonyms of Nero 600m, then Valle Negra,and Valle calda could be same fig with Nero 600m. However the health of the specimen has to be taken in consideration,when choosing a fig tree. Viollete de Bordeaux ,also have local names like Negronne,and Beer Black,and also other names.

Sas

Registered:1350079929
Posts: 1,363

Posted 1438121607	Reply with quote #13

Mara, about four years ago, I had a similar tree that came to me from a reputable nursery. Its leaves were exactly like yours and the label read VDB. The VDB that people discussed in this forum has different leaves than yours. Since I have both trees, I could say that your tree will yield a more rounded fruit while the VDB will yield a more elongated fruit. Sometimes trees get labeled incorrectly at the source. If you have no room then don't worry, your tree will yield some great tasting figs and is very productive too. As to the difference in taste, it is subjective. Your local conditions will play a huge role on how your figs turn out. This summer I've had some great tasting Texas Everbearing figs that were better tasting than my VDB. The reason for this is that my VDB was stressed this season due to lack of water and the quality of the fruit suffered. __________________ Sas from North Austin TX Zone 8B Wish list: Becane

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,718

Posted 1438124927	Reply with quote #14

Interesting stuff, good post. Probably never will be a good answer here, or at least one everybody agrees to. My VdB, Petit Negra RT, and Vista all have slightly different leaves. The Petite Negra RT and Vista are closer together than the VdB is, this year. The VdB has leaves that were spotless up to this year, but I still think it's some sort of rust or other ailment; but that's not for this conversation. I haven't tasted the Vista yet, but the other two are super and I have no need to get anymore which are closely related to them. Maybe next year I should be able to compare Vista. __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

johnjay7491

Registered:1427833258
Posts: 74

Posted 1438126159	Reply with quote #15

I suppose this will be one of those topics where there is no clear agreement on what the real VdB is or isn't. As I stated in post#8 my two plants appear to match Nicks. As far as my VdB being diseased, I don't see any sign of it. It is growing vigorously with no sign of fmv or anything else. It was received as a TC and I would hope AgriStarts did some research before propagating this or any variety. Regardless if it does well here then that's all that really matters to me. __________________ John NH Z5

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1438127974	Reply with quote #16

My "Negronne" resembles Nick's VdB and is healthy. My Nero 600m also closely resembles my Negronne. They are either the same or very close relatives. __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

Exoticplants1

Registered:1422803009
Posts: 146

Posted 1438130444	Reply with quote #17

I love the info guys.thank you for the better understanding. __________________ Growing- Galicia negra, I-258, De la reina,; Montenegro,Raspberry latte, Panachee, Col de dame grise (belleclare), Sweet joy ,Coll de dama blanca-negra, Bordissot negra, Parajal rimada , Calderona .Bordissot negra rimada, Albacor de Molla de Melo,White persian. Zone 7a, Philly.

dfoster25

Registered:1337044031
Posts: 723

Posted 1438131489	Reply with quote #18

Bite my tongue. __________________ Zone 6, SE MICHIGAN -14F 1-7-14 -23F 2-?-15 6F 1-18-16

brianm

Registered:1389664758
Posts: 971

Posted 1438145016	Reply with quote #19

UC Davis VDB Attached Images IMG_20150728_1357.jpg (87.22 KB, 60 views) __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra,UC Davis Black Ischia, Maltese Raven

brettjm

Registered:1398901785
Posts: 215

Posted 1438170209	Reply with quote #20

Quote: Originally Posted by brianm UC Davis VDB Yup. That looks like my cutting, spot on. __________________ In GA, Zone 7b/8a Wish list: more space to put in figs.

brianm

Registered:1389664758
Posts: 971

Posted 1438177126	Reply with quote #21

The tissue culture VDB has different leaves. They start out with long skinny fingers. I have both. __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra,UC Davis Black Ischia, Maltese Raven

Herman2

Registered:1189809424
Posts: 2,625

Posted 1438178137 · Edited	Reply with quote #22

Here are healthy trees with healthy leaves. Now everyone can judge for them-self if they are the same. Other differences can be observed ,only if person grows the plant for more than 5 years,to know how they do in adverse climatic conditions. Nero 600m is an improvement,compared to Violette de Bordeaux. To me they do not look the same nor do they perform the same! Edit note:This pictures are all taken today outside,all of them,as they came out. First 2 Nero, second 2 Violette Attached Images Nero600m_healthy_leaf.JPG (201.95 KB, 109 views) Nero_600m_healthy_tree.JPG (237.12 KB, 106 views) Violette_de_Bordeaux_healthy_leaf.JPG (207.86 KB, 106 views) Violette_de_Bordeaux_healthy_tree..JPG (246.16 KB, 106 views)

AltadenaMara

Registered:1422990132
Posts: 375

Posted 1438182593	Reply with quote #23

Thanks Nick, Herman, Sas, BrianM for your comments and pictures. As Herman suggested, it seems like the leaves will be different under different growing conditions and even in different parts of the country. I ate my first VdB yesterday, and it looked just like Nick’s picture, only smaller- the tree in my picture’s first fig. Delicious! Herman, you didn’t post the tree names of the leaves you posted. Which is which? __________________ Mara Southern California Zone 1990= 9b 2012= 10a 2020=?

Mat9

Registered:1423177759
Posts: 68

Posted 1438185303	Reply with quote #24

Quote: Originally Posted by AltadenaMara Thanks Nick, Herman, Sas, BrianM for your comments and pictures. As Herman suggested, it seems like the leaves will be different under different growing conditions and even in different parts of the country. I ate my first VdB yesterday, and it looked just like Nick’s picture, only smaller- the tree in my picture’s first fig. Delicious! Herman, you didn’t post the tree names of the leaves you posted. Which is which? Move the cursor over the pictures (do not click) and the name comes up. The two on the left are 600, The two on the right are VDB. __________________ Rockland,NY-Zone 6-B

AltadenaMara

Registered:1422990132
Posts: 375

Posted 1438187682 · Edited	Reply with quote #25

Quote: "Move the cursor over the pictures (do not click) and the name comes up. The two on the left are 600, The two on the right are VDB." Thanks. I see the names now. __________________ Mara Southern California Zone 1990= 9b 2012= 10a 2020=?

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1438190539	Reply with quote #26

My VdB looks like the Mara's fig. It is a healthy VdB look that is enjoying the SoCal sun. Some of you may not have both at the same time though :) The fruit is awesome, especially when stays extra day on the branch __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

GeneDaniels

Registered:1384021772
Posts: 1,014

Posted 1438515623	Reply with quote #27

Quote: Originally Posted by AltadenaMara Alta, that fig in view on this pic does not look like VdB or the closely related Negronne. I have both and the figs are much more elongated. I am guessing that may be a Ronde de Bordeaux instead. __________________ Zone 7b (Central Arkansas) Seven trees in the ground: Hardy Chicago, Celeste(?), LSU gold, Italian Black, Southern Brown Turkey(?), Strawberry Verte, and Unk yellow. Trees in pots: VdB, CdD, and Sicilian?

SuperMario1

Registered:1441853363
Posts: 441

Posted 1456443807 · Edited	Reply with quote #28

Quote: Originally Posted by AltadenaMara What you're calling Violette de Bordeaux has leaves that look entirely different from my two VdBs and the VdB on the Fig Varietal Info website. Is it possible that it was mis-labeled at some point in time? My two VdB both have the same type of leaves. This is my VdB from Dave Wilson Nursery sold at San Gabriel Nursery. My other VdB was an older tree that came from Burkard's Nursery with the name written on the pot. Looks just like my Vista, and what the UCD "VDB" looks like above. My VDBs look like the Nero 600/ Petit Negri/Negronne with the long skinny leaves and spade leaves. This seems to make sense since most folks' VDB have the long skinny leaves and spades, while the UCD has leaves like my Vista and UCD published material that suggested that VDB and Vista are genetically identical. Perhaps the UCD "mother" of VDB is a different variant from what most folks call VDB. That would certainly explain the UCD result because my Vista and VDB are definitely not the same... not by a long shot. Makes sense to me but I'm just guessing here. __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra, Violetta, Violette de Sollies, Dan_la's Black Beauty 10, Craven's Craving, Most important: YOUR FAVORITE FIG. A lot of people put emphasis on popular/exotic cultivars, which is great because it highlights some of the better fig varieties; however, I am most interested in the figs our members love regardless of pedigree. Currently Growing: a bunch of varieties.

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