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Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > "Nero" and "Barnissote" - the same fig?
 
 


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satellitehead

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
First, a point, then the question...

About the fig "Nero"... I understand that :

* The word "nero" translates to "black" in Italian. 
* It is also the name of the 5th Roman emperor, reigning in Italy from 54 AD to 68 AD.
* There are many Italian figs which use 'Nero' in the name (Brandisi Nero, Brogiotto Nero, Nero Caesar, Pissaluto Nero, etc.)

All three statements are tied to Italy in some way...

With that said, I have read that Nero and Barnissote are synonyms, and there is also a fig named Nero Barnissote in the F4F database.   Naturally, I am curious if anyone can share some clarification about these two or more figs and whether they are related.

I received some Barnisotte cuttings from UCD this year, and it looks like at least one cutting is transplanted and will make it.  I also purchased cuttings of Nero from Richard Watts' collection this year, which I have yet to begin attempting rooting.

I intend to compare the two, but I would love to have a "spoiler" of what I may find!
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Nero does not = Barnisotte.
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Posted Reply with quote  #3 

Do you remember off the top of your head where the synonym at the F4F variety database came from?  (this is the syn I'm talking about)
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
I think there is actually a mistake in the F4F variety database.  That 'barnisotte' is supposed to be 'barnisotte blanche'.

If you click that last link for "Barnisotte, then click the source (Ray Givan), look at his description of Barnisotte Blanche - it's the exact text you have for that entry.

I think the thumbnails for that entry may be incorrect, in light of Ray Givan's comments.
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Also, if it's found there's a mistake, Nero links to that same Barnisotte:  http://figs4fun.com/Var_N_info.html#NERO

Interesting, the synonyms for Nero are Ischia Black, Brogiotto Nero, Barnisotte, etc.

Ah, fig confusion....
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Brogiotto Nero is the Italian synonym for Barnisotte Black.  Bourjassotte Noire is the French synonym.  See Eisen and Condit for a lengthier list of synonyms.  Could be that Brogiotto Nero got shortened to Nero in some circles, but that probably happened for other Nero (black) figs as well.
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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Jason, see

Number 1

Number 2

Number 3

Number 4

Number 5

And if you want add more evidence or more confusion Google will keep you busy till fig season is over. ;-))

Not that I haven't screwed some things up when trying to compile the data at Figs 4 Fun, but I have made no attempt to evaluate the data and try to correct inconsistencies - only t provide the data as found so that you can draw your own conclusions. I will have to try this again sme day, but long ago I started with the name of the Green fig, and by working my way from synonym to synonym, proved that it was the same as a dark purple fig. Welcome to the fun part of figs.
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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
My plant came labeled Nero Barnisotte. Any idea wich of the two it is?
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FrozenJoe

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
The leaves do not look like UC Davis Barnissotte.


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Posted Reply with quote  #10 

Hi Joe, I agree leaves do look different plant is also pretty infected with FMV hmmm hopefully Jon will remember wich one he sent me because he does have one listed as Nero Barnisotte.
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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
My Barnisotte from UCD croaked. I had fingers crossed but no dice.
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Mine died a long time ago.
But it fruited before dead.
And they were extraordinary good tasting and are also tolerant to rain.
The Problem is The FM virus it comes with,the strain of this virus,is very destructive for many cultivars that otherwise will be of very high quality..
If a clean healthy tree will be found somewhere in the world ,that will be a welcomed development.
hERE ARE PIXES TAKEN IN 2007,AND ALSO MY AVATAR IS bARNISOTTE FRUITS.
Ripe on Aug. 24/2007

Attached Images
jpeg Barnisotte_Aug24DSCN0296.JPG (146.81 KB, 196 views)
jpeg BarnisotteDSCN0292.JPG (243.21 KB, 185 views)
nelson20vt

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 

Hi Vasile I agree this particular plant is plagued with fmv even showing fmv on immature fruits it is a pitty that a few of the extremely good tasting varieties have such bad cases of fmv. Hopefully one day someone will find a better strain that is fmv free im sure its out there somewhere.
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Posted Reply with quote  #14 

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g371/cmdrzog/IMG_0272.jpg

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g371/cmdrzog/IMG_0271.jpg

UCD sourced Barnissotte . First fig just ripened. It was good.
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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Robert in my opinion thats a very fine looking UcDavis Barnisotte.
Whats your secret ?  ;  )
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Posted Reply with quote  #16 

Hmmm, I have the Barnisotte on my cuttings list from UCD, so hopefully I will be successful with rooting and the plant survives.  The Barnisotte was actually one of the top 10 variants when I started researching. 


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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
My tree was just as nice,older and better established ,and all of a sudden,one Spring it collapsed down to nothing,so That is how it goes when a plant got this problem.
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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
I have one from uc davis that is finally getting healthy. I will post a photo later to compare.
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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
UC Davis Barnissotte

Source = a cutting from UC Davis in 2010

The leaves are LARGE.  They have long lobes.  The leaves do not get a very dark shade of green.

Top View:


Side View:


This one started out in 2010 as a very strong grower.  Then one day last summer it just collapsed and appeared to be dead.  It slowly came back, but was a weak grower with lots of signs of FMV.  For about the last month it has been growing strong again.  Hopefully no more collapses.
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Posted Reply with quote  #20 

Are there different strains of FMV or is it just that some plants are not able to hanlde it as well as others?
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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Fig mosaic virus,like many other viruses,mutate if they need to ,to fight whatever might be after to kill them(imune system,medicine etc).If they mutate in a very succesfull variant,then it will survive and suck the live out,of a plant or animal.
Their goal is to live on the back of other organism,not to kill that organism,but like any parasite,it will affect negative ,and the organism will not flourish as it should.
Of course In our eastern climatic condition,where the fig tree has to fight the long period of frost,or life in a pot,adding FMV,burden to the plant will sometimes lead to total demise,death of the plant.
So to your question:Are there more than one FMV kind,the answer is yes:
There can be at least one other mutated more damaging Fig mosaic virus,additional to the original FMV,known in the past.
snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 

Jason, I don't think they are the same fig.....that's just my opinion.  I have not tasted Nero YET!  But I have tasted Barnisotte at UCD.  Out of all the figs I ate at UCD.....Barnisotte, Zidi, Excel, St Jean, Black Ischia and Black Madeira were spot on in flavor, taste, texture and sweetness.  I kept coming back to those over and over again because they were so good.  And yes....I just had to bring some home for the wife to taste.  Here are few pics....keep in mind UCD has the fig wasp but I dont care!  Those figs were outstanding!  I have a lot more pics...but not enough time to process and post.  Cheers,

Attached Images
jpeg IMGP0138_1.jpg (996.15 KB, 133 views)
jpeg IMGP0139_1.jpg (996.31 KB, 140 views)


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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
dennis - we would love to see the video you said you took.....
utube baby!
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Posted Reply with quote  #24 

I got 5 or 6 videos on AVI.  I'm working on converting them then I'll upload them to YouTube. 


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Dennis
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satellitehead

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Doesn't YouTube auto-convert AVI on upload?
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
To Jason:Your Nero Barnisotte ,is similar to Belleclare Nero Barnisotte ,which is not Nero,Nor Barnisotte but a Mystery Brown Fig.
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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Here are better pics of the plant showing leaf variations pics were taken on aug. 24th.
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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
The answer is:You do not have a Burnsotte identical to UC Davis specimen.
UCDavis Specimen is so superior tasting,but so hard to grow here in NE due to FMV,and cold Winters.
I had your Burnisotte and it made brownish figs ,medium size,and just average tasting.
Also had the UCD Plant.
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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Thank you Vasile, I had a feeling it wasn't specially since unripe fruits resemble Celeste looks like it will go in the garbage pile.
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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Hey, Nelson

Is this the same plant that I cuttings got from you this past December?
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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Hey Ruben, no no cuttings I sent you were from my bourjassote noire wich came directly from europe. I think I have pics somewhere of the leaves completely different.
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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
WoW,   I am so confused! after the last  posting about  differences and variant's in  the   Negronne??True or False  thread . 
I am new to all of this So you will have to bare with me on this . I have read through Condit's book  and the Varietal info here on F4F . It seems a little overwhelming for a beginner such as myself . There are 10 or 12 Var's of Adriatic ,Blanche, Brunswick, BT, Celeste,V.B.D  Ect..Ect.... Where does one start?
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Posted Reply with quote  #33 

Thanks, Nelson. Just wondering. It would be cool to see those pictures and compare them to Snaglpus' since they are topic-related. Thanks again!
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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
Hey Ruben here is the only pic I found so far from July 2010
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Posted Reply with quote  #35 

hmm...doesn't much resemble the Barnissotte leaves. Has it fruited yet?
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Ruben
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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
Hey Ruben, My Bourjassotte noire has not fruited for me yet its origins are from http://www.figuiers.com/plants-de-figuiers.html  you can see pics of fruits there.

Bourjassote noire fruits are much more flatened than the barnissote from ucdavis.
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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
Last month, I drove all the way from Charlotte to Opelousas (a 13hr drive).  I went to see Mr Robin....got a few figs from him and stopped by to see Dalton.  I got a few figs from him including one Barnissotte.  I wanted one in 3gal but settled for the 1gal size.  He has Barnissotte listed as Nero, and Brogiotto Nero on his website but I don't think they are the same tree.
 
Today I talked to Dalton.  He's sold out of the Barnissotte.  The one at UCD has a very rich, excellent sweet flavor.  Looking forward to tasting it again this year.
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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
Nelson,

Thanks for that link. Aside from the color of the fruit, that Bourjassote Noire bears no resemblance to Barnissotte though they are supposed to be synonymous.

@Dennis,

Brogiotto Nero and Barnissotte are supposed to be synonymous. Nero and Barnissotte are not. Even DNA testing by UCD did not find a direct relation between those two.

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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
Ruben I agree, Its confusing and frustrating at the same time. I do know they are all synonyms for each other including violette de sollies and parisienne both those seem to look like the bourjassote noire and have flatish figs. 

heres another interesting post about this topic.

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Kathleen-Black-compared-to-NegronneVistaViolette-de-Bordeaux-5691832
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Posted Reply with quote  #40 

@Ruben, Great!  That's good news to my ears!  I just think figs are amazing!
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #41 
My 2 cents:
Both Nero (Black) and Bianco (White) are problably the most mis-used
in fig name descriptions e.g., being (plain) Black,  Black.xyz or (my preferred naming) xyz.Black.
One example: I do have a  "Nero" from BelleClare (BC#5);
its skin does not show any 'blackness' at all here in NJ. It is more like of a light-brown color!
{desc: 5.  NERO (Italy) (a) large, purple-red (wine color) dark center (2 crops)}
And, and it definetly is not a Barnisotte...
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Posted Reply with quote  #42 
thanks George. I like your naming convention. I created a database for my fig trees. And I started naming all my figs exactly the same way. I would love to see pics of your BC#5 this summer. thanks,
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #43 
The two UCDavis Barnissotte cuttings I started in 2010 are still hanging in there with new growth so maybe the larger one will give me a fig this year.

Attached Images
jpeg Barnissotte.jpg (98.06 KB, 46 views)
jpeg Barnissotte2.jpg (100.80 KB, 42 views)
jpeg Barnissotte3.jpg (94.65 KB, 32 views)


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Posted Reply with quote  #44 

Durio Nursery listing:.

barnisotte [nero / brogiotto nero] - This fig comes to us from Italy. It has large, late ripening, reddish black figs of better quality than those of 'Black Mission'. The rich, fairly sweet flesh is red-amber and of very good to excellent flavor. Unfortunately, the eye is medium sized and open. Very good fresh but poor when stewed as it breaks up when stirred. Needs heat for best taste. Well adapted to the South and Southwest. Fruit shape turbinate-pyriform sometimes oblique with a broad apex. Leaf has a cordate base and 5 lobes with the middle one being spatulate and the others latate.

Durio has a very good reputation, right?
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Frank
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Posted Reply with quote  #45 
I have a 'Nero' and a 'Brogiotto Nero'. Two different sources. I have very little info on Nero other than the name. Had main crop last year that were more reddish than dark, like a maroon.

No figs yet on the 'Brogiotto Nero' yet other than Brebas now yet to ripen.

Leaves are different and like said before,' Nero' is a name often used with no sense of location found.
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Dominick
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Posted Reply with quote  #46 
Dom, long time no see, I feel like!

Frank, Durio doesn't have a negative reputation, heard mostly good things but prices (shipping especially) are steep.
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #47 
Yeah I haven't had much to add lately. 

Durio's cool. If you call he sometimes has stuff not listed. I haven't bought from him before. I had to call to translate for somebody.

Cajun to Brooklyn! LOL
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Posted Reply with quote  #48 

Well, was thinking about you a few times recently, especially when I bumped the 'red terminal bud' thread.  Good to see you posting again.
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #49 
Bumping up an old thread now that I've tasted both Nero and Barnissotte.  And my prediction is that these are not the same fig.  My Nero came from JF&E.  Its a medium size fig, a tad bit long and jet black when ripe.  Very sugary sweet fig!  The ripe figs on my tree has a pinkish white pulp color.

Barnissotte on the other hand is a large fat fig, rich tasting and in my climate its a reddish black color. Also very sweet.  Both are not that hardy for my climate.  Both are excellent keepers.  It does irritate me with the name of these figs.  I know "NOIRE'  and "NERO" means black but depending on your climate, your black fig may be a brownish reddish color.  Those at UCD are so good....they will make you slap your momma!
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #50 
Dennis,
What "Nero" is yours? Brogiotto, 600m, else?
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