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I definitely sympathize with anybody who is battling critters for their fruit. While I try to find ways to insure they don't suffer when I kill them, my first concern is protecting the fruit. I don't enjoy killing things, but for anybody who grows plants it's usually a necessity--whether they're fighting bugs, squirrels, birds, or whatever. I would be willing to sacrifice a reasonable portion of my crop to the animals, but it almost never works that way--with them, "it's all er nuthin."


The real problem is that most pests seem to come in a never-ending supply. As soon as you kill one, two more take its place. If I staked out my trees with a pellet gun and shot every bird that wanted a beakfull of fruit, I'd have a pile of dead birds and still probably wouldn't get much fruit. That's one reason I chose to use netting--if it's installed properly, it's truly effective--but only against things that can't gnaw. I'm sure it's humanly possible to build a squirrel-proof, wire cage around a few small fig trees, but it would probably cost an arm and a leg, look ugly, and collapse under the first heavy snow. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Jason, there are real laws and other people to consider, like the ones who might see you stalking around their neighborhood with a rifle. I really am sorry for being blunt, I got worked up reading this thread late last night, thought there should be someone to speak for the squirrels, see the Lorax. Urban squirrels are a fact of life, taking drastic/risky/dangerous measures for a very limited gain is not a smart plan. It is illegal for you to poison (always) or shoot squirrels out of season (or ever in a residential setting) in GA. I don't have an answer to your problems, but will encourage you, and everyone else reading, to not break the law or put anyone else in danger by going rogue.

Caneyscud- There are lots of hunters in Delaware, just not up here in Wilmington ;) I fly-fish too, although not for a couple years now. Have you tried a small sized irresistible in fast/slightly choppy water? Does the trick every time in the Poconos where midges and terrestrials are sunk or lost in the waves and nymphs get stuck in rocks and snags all the time. There really is nothing like fly-fishing. Are those mulberries any good? I have some wild pawpaw seeds if you would like to try direct seeding, which is the way to go due to the taproot you mentioned. Black walnut trees are toxic to many plants (tomatoes especially), but not pawpaws. Is that cicada thing regional, or should I expect them here too? And have you met the marmorated stink bug there yet? They are way worse than anything I have seen before and spreading fast, a real versatile agricultural pest that has no control and some nasty stink. 



It is NOT illegal to kill ground squirrels or other pests on ones personal property in CA if done in a safe, humane way. I can't legally transport live animals I may catch in a haveaheart or squirrelinaor (catches multiple squirrels vs 1) but I can kill them humanely.

If I live trap them I have to let them go or kill them. Now, how do I humanely kill an animal in a live trap? Drown it? Shoot it? Poison it? What? If the County is OK with the poison bait it offers to kill these beasts where they live, so am I. Reality check, life is cruel at times.

These critters are undermining my driveway. It's not about the fruit...yet. It's thousands of dollars to repair/replace the driveway if it cracks. It's them or me...I'm not going quietly...

Wish I had an AMIGO:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,915337,00.html

 

Sue

Brent,

I don't have tree squirrels. I have ground squirrels and it's OK to kill them here.

"It is illegal to kill tree squirrels in California with bait poison! "County Agricultural bait" is not for tree squirrels in your county Sue! The rest of you probably need a permit to kill game animals so I would be careful what is said here, where everyone can read it."

Where did you get the impression I had tree squirrels?

Sue

Sorry Sue, you didn't specify and that is what the OP, and others, are talking about I believe. I apologize humbly.
 Here's a safer solution for everyone plagued with burrowing pests. The Rodenator. Safe and effective and relatively humane.

What is the difference between ground squirrels and the tree squirrels.
The destructive squirrels we have are on the ground when taking care of the strawberries and go up the trees and plants when they are after fruit such as cherry and fig fruit.
Yes, they live up in the trees. Now they don't pass through the backyard lawn but come through power lines over the trees.

I am so appalled by all your actions and comments!

Trap and release them into the wild where they belong with their fellow animal kind. Squirrels are people too. They have feelings just like you and me. They may be small but they have love to give to others. I am crying at the thought of the death of even one of these creatures!

By the way, anyone have a good recipe for Squirrel stew? I'm starving!

Remember, If it walks on four, have some more!
_________
Dominick
Zone6a-MA

Taste?

99,98,97,96 Etc,Etc


I shoot the hell out of them, and nope, I don't EVEN eat them, I leave that for Mr & Mrs Buzzard.......That is how we do round here.

I don't blame anyone for any method to rid them. Whether you let them live, die, eat or let be eaten, they are a nuisance in more ways then one.

They live under my car hood and have gotten friggin acorns shoved in my air intake. They have taken up residence in my shed and used my old bags of potting soil to bury food.  If I still had my S&W, I would plug 'em everyday.

They have yet to touch my fruiting trees, but if and when they do, it's armageddon!

___________
Dominick
Zone6a-MA


I hear Ya Dominick

Hey Dominick,  let's be adults. Are you a LEO? Do you believe in a civil society?

I'm joking around. I just think this conversation has gotten way too serious. Sorry that you felt it was completely directed at you. Yes I am a child at times and my wife hates it but its me. Look at this way. When you turn your computer off you get away from me. My wife- not that fotunate.

I'm a Sag but I'm sure that doesn't make you feel better.

Sue--to humanely kill something caught in a live trap:

1) Slip a double-loaf plastic bread bag (i.e., Costco size) inside a cloth sack to form a double-layered bag.
2) Fit it over one end of the trap and gather any excess so there's no room for your critter to squeeze through and make a break for it.
3) Feeling through the bag, lift up the little locking bar so you can open the door.
4) Push down the correct (this is crucial) lever to swing open the door at the bag end of the trap.
5) If it doesn't immediately run into the bag on its own, usually you can provide the needed encouragement by blowing a puff of air at it through the side of the trap.
6) Shut the door behind it, squeeze the neck of the bags shut, slip it free from the trap, and shake the critter down into the bottom.
7) Gripping the double-layer sack firmly by the gathered neck, swing it, fast and hard, in an overhead arc (like swinging a flail) and slam it onto a concrete sidewalk. The critter dies instantly. Remove plastic bag with dead critter inside, drop bag and all in the trash, get a new plastic bag, and reset your trap. Marking "notches" on top of the trap with a Sharpie is optional, but I like to keep track of how many rodents I've escorted to that big orchard in the sky (or, perhaps it's considerably further south so they can torment deceased fig-fanciers who falsified their E-bay offerings).

I started using the cloth outer bag when centrifugal force caused a particularly portly pack rat to rip through the bag at the zenith of my swing and wing its wide-eyed way towards the sun. A palo verde tree slowed its re-entry sufficiently to let it come to rest, disoriented but uninjured, in front of my garage, and doubting my ability coax it back into a new bag for a repeat performance, I opted for the pellet gun before it had a chance to regain its equilibrium and scamper for the high hills.

OK Dominick, sorry as well, I do feel a little lonely though...

I approve of Ken's method, if anyone is going to kill anything it should be done with respect. Thanks again Ken.

Sue, I found California contractors here at the rodenator site, they could tell you if they can work under a driveway like that. Instant eradication would really be better for both you and the squirrels I think. It's effective year round and non-toxic, unlike fumigants and baits.

Welcome to the brand new member.

Don't feel lonely hoosierbanana.
There are at least 5392 matches for search with "squirrels" in GW forum at this time. If you search hard enough, you may find someone kind to squirrels.
Here is just one of the threads:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cangard/msg0608292811944.html

Brent, she indicated damage under the driveway - tree squirrels aren't known for boring.

As for me ... here's how things work in Atlanta, this is from around the corner:  http://www.11alive.com/news/watercooler/story.aspx?storyid=117817&catid=186

Note the absence of charges with regard to the squirrels, discharging shotguns irresponsibly, yes.  Squirrels dead, no. 

There's also a law on the books here making it illegal to tie giraffes to telephone pole, but I reckon if I did and 20 cops drove by, they'd smile and wave. ;)  ;)

The squirrels are going to get gone one way or another.  How I'll do it, I'm not settled on.

And Welcome to the forum, new guy!  ;)


(EDIT:  No hard feelings, if it's not clear enough)

Hey Jason, I've never seen a ground squirrel before so I didn't get that. And I was really mad to learn that the best natural control of squirrels(hawks) are getting poisoned in my area, so I was worked up like I said. I do not have squirrel problems with my figs, hardly notice them except during the mating season. I do remember the feeling of picking up uneaten immature figs that the city's squirrels left, it was not good, but I adapted around the squirrels as best I could. Just curious, did you ever try tinfoil to protect near ripe figs? I got the idea from pezzuti9's recent pest post. Also to be clear, I was not directing that harsh "more sense" comment at you individually, the top of this thread is rather gruesome though, and I was shocked by the mob mentality. I usually enjoy reading your posts actually.

If you are really going to ice squirrels then you would need to train pretty seriously, a BB gun draws negative attention in neighborhoods, so do wounded squirrels, and BBs embedded in things. While most people are pretty comfortable with a novice target archer living next door. Also the energy from an arrow is much greater and would knock out/kill a small animal much better with just a blunt tip than even a very long range (read overshot danger) high powered air rifle. At any rate, if you happened to be out in the yard practicing with the bow to get good enough to become a master squirrel hunter some day, and you miss the hay bale target with with the blunt tip because that squirrel is distracting you by eating your peanut butter sandwich that you carelessly left next to the target, I don't think anyone would get hurt or raise any alarms as long as the arrow stayed in your own yard. A large archery target is an indication of what you are doing and your neighbors will probably get used to you shooting. Also just having arrows whiz past is terrifying, much more than a BB, a squirrel will respect an arrow that misses, they'll remember. I would check out local regs, but I could not find anything illegal about target archery in ones own back yard in Atlanta. Of course a bow is not as easy to master as a gun so they are not for everyone.

KEN!!!  I'm crying so hard I can hardly see to type!  I have copied and pasted your post on your own flying squirrel because it's one of the funniest things I've ever read here.  You have a good way of writing about things and you are so funny.  Your sense of timing is perfection.

I have a hard time thinking of killing a squirrel when I think of the spark of life in its bright eyes and feel the same about rats and mice, but they are rodents and destructive.  I don't know if I could slam one onto the concrete, or even if I have the strength to do so.  I hate the idea of poison and a creature getting sick and hurting.  Still pests need to be done away with and the qucker, the better.

noss

Thanks Noss, you're sweet. If you had half as much fun reading it as I had writing it, it was time well spent--although if coaxed, my wife might be willing to voice a contrary opinion. Nothing quite enhances the fun of posting on F4F as much as postponing the umpteen other tasks I should be working on....


I'm acquainted with a couple of local fruit-growers of the Havahart persuasion--one gives post-incarceration swimming lessons and the other provides shooting lessons, so I asked myself, "Why not offer flying lessons?" They've been very popular with the students--judging by the tally marks on the waiting room roof, even more popular than the courses available from my competitors.

ROTFLMHO!  As for your wife--You gotta have a straight man to be a good comic.  Just ask Mike, who usually just rolls his eyes heavenward as if to ask, why ME, Lord?  ;)

noss

Ken, The thought of that rat flying thru the air is hilarious, I was giggling out loud at work...people were staring.

Noss, I found the bag from the AG. The anticoagulant chemical used in the County AG bait is:
Diphacinone 2-diphenylacetyl-1, 3-indandione at .005% (Title is "Rodent Bait Diphacinone treated grain (0.005%)").

Its use is for Norway rats, roof rats, ground squirrels, chipmunks, muskrats, jackrabbits, golden-manteled ground squirrels, and cottentail rabbits (Orange County only).

Warfarin (Coumiden) is (RS)-4-hydroxy- 3-(3-oxo-1-phenylbutyl)- 2H- chromen- 2-one.

I would never use this for rabbits or muskrats as the options for deploying the poison leaves it open to indescriminant killing. The way I use it restricts the animals that can get to it, only those that fit in a 4" tube, rats, mice and ground squirrels. I have cotton tail rabbits too I'd like to control but not with this.

I spent some good money putting up an owl box in my yard to help control rodents. I do have barn owls who've claimed it. No nesting yet but soon I hope. I certainly do not want to inadvertenly kill the owls or their offspring by having poisioned rodents around for them to eat. Squirrels are not owl prey, gophers are...go figure. I am being as sensitive yet determined to control squirrels with as little impact to the environment as possible.

Brent, no problem. I do want a rodentator though! The contractors who use this are too far away (100+ miles) and cost a small fortune. I could afford to by the rodenator for what they charge.

Sue

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
Hey Jason, ... I was really mad to learn that the best natural control of squirrels(hawks) are getting poisoned in my area, so I was worked ....

We have a lot of hawks and feral cats nearby, but not enough to control the squirrel population.  Nobody in the area poisons (yet), I think this is why Sue was recommending the type of bait she was - no side effects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
I do not have squirrel problems with my figs, hardly notice them except during the mating season at the farm ... I do remember the feeling of picking up uneaten immature figs that the city's squirrels left, it was not good, but I adapted around the squirrels as best I could. Just curious, did you ever try tinfoil to protect near ripe figs? I got the idea from pezzuti9's recent pest post.


I think you misunderstand my plight.  This isn't just about them eating a couple figs, it's about them flat-out destroying my plants and trees, my home and my possessions. 


Let me share some examples of what I deal with so you have a glimpse of the gamut of what I deal with (this is just the tip of the iceberg):

  • It started about 7 years ago when I moved into the house and started over with a new setup.  I began cultivating on my 2nd story back deck, which is about 18' off the ground.  It was innocent enough - they would dig up the soil in the pots to bury crap.  This is what most "average" people know about squirrels.  We would "shoo" them off when we saw them.
  • Over the following couple of years, the digging persisted despite all known or suggested methods to stop them - like the automated sprinkler that I built, fake owls and snakes, cayenne sprinkles and sprays, animal urine, etc.  It got to the point where it smelled so bad we couldn't stand being on our own deck.  We gave up.  They won.
  • About 5 years ago, we ramped up the edibles on our back deck and finally built our stackstone in-ground beds on the south side of the house for gardening.  They would eat our parsley, cilantro, dill and everything else we would plant on the deck.  They dug up all of our ornamental succulents.  All of our rosemary and lavender...they dug up the roots so many times it killed the plants.  We didn't see a lot of them in our stackstone beds that year (all plants were sourced from the store, no time to seed).
  • About 4 years ago, a squirrel came onto the deck and (like a beaver) chewing a pair of 2-year old potted Japanese maple seedlings in half.  They were about as big around as a pencil.  It started with one, and I thought, "hmm, strange", then a week later they came back and did it to the other.
  • About couple months later, I put all of my heirloom tomato and pepper seedlings out to harden off (~85 plants).  I kept walking out and finding the cups knocked over.  About a week after they went out, one of the squirrels came onto the deck and ate the entire top half off nearly all of my plants, killing almost all of them for that season.
  • I seeded a few more but had to supplement ($$$) with plants bought from the store to pay for the damage the squirrels had done.  Even though I put chickenwire up around my beds, they still managed to get in and attack my tomatoes and peppers (!!!) before they were even halfway ripe.  I didn't get to eat a single Sunberry or ground cherry off the deck that year, they ate those and topped them off repeatedly (ate the tops) and I found and I am still finding sunberries and ground cherries randomly popping up in pots years later because they buried a lot of the berries in pots on my back deck - the only good side to this (but they attack what they grow, so I still don't see squat!!).
  • About 3 years ago, I took the side walls of a dog crate (3/8" steel) and made a cage for my seedlings so they couldn't kill them.  I did pretty good with this, but it took up a huge part of the deck, which was a pain in the butt.  Over the winter, they dug up all of my kale and other greens, they dug up about half of my beets and turnips, and I got about a bowl of spinach total, even with chickenwire around all sides.  I still don't know, to this day, how they managed to get me on those.
  • About 2 years ago, when my first round of figs went out for the year in spring, they dug up several, doing more damage than Nelson's dog did one year to his plants.  They chewed two plants in half.  They ate all of the leaves off my only JH Adriatic, which took almost a year to source the single cutting - it was growing great till that point, it promptly died.
  • At present, I have the chickenwire setup in place around my 1gal-2gal figs, tucked against the corner of the house after they dug up several other potted figs in February (none died).  Even with the chickenwire, they are getting in - they dug up a Fico Preto on this past Monday and it baked in the sun - it's dead.  Another win for them.  They left me a gorgeous, mangled walnut to pay me back, though!!
I won't even get into the fruit they steal, usually before it's even ripe - which is why the tinfoil wouldn't do a lick of good, sun is a factor in fruit ripening, and to apply tinfoil when figs aren't ripe ... meh.

I didn't bother to mention what they do to my cherries and blueberries around the yard or grapes on the back deck... in a nutshell, I could put steel cages around my stuff, these little ninja houdini bastards would find a way in.  Every time I'm out on my deck they sneer and hiss at me.  So I decided I was going to kill them.  The feral cats aren't doing it.  The hawks aren't doing it.  Meanwhile, I lose about half of the crops I could have to them.

... and I don't want to live my life in Fort Knox to protect the food my family and I grow living off the small hunk of land we have. 

They've even gone so far as to start chewing on the house, they chewed up one of the knobs on my grill last fall... they're attacking and damaging my stuff now, not just the plants, which is why they are going to die.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
Also to be clear, I was not directing that harsh "more sense" comment at you individually, the top of this thread is rather gruesome though, and I was shocked by the mob mentality. I usually enjoy reading your posts actually.


Thanks, and I didn't take offense.  I didn't see a mob mentality, unless you mean folks mobbing squirrels.  If you think this is bad, you should see some of the threads at the GardenWeb Georgia Gardener forum about squirrels.... they're bad out here.  People just don't understand how severe of a problem they are unless you're in a huge pit of expense or loss.  It's really easy for you to say "don't shoot them" when you're not Sue who is looking at spending thousands of dollars to replace a paved surface they're about to destroy or me, who has lost thousands of dollars in plants, trees and their fruit over the last five years, and it's getting exponentially worse every year as they breed like bunnies - and, unfortunately, paying money to have them removed is a temporary and never-ending expense which never actually "solves" the problem. 

And I have no hard feelings, I hope it's mutual.  I do respect your viewpoint,  I'm not mad atcha, I am not harboring a grudge.  I honestly understand your viewpoint as well, because I sat in your shoes/your viewpoint from 2004-2009 while they totally destroyed my stuff, but in my current position of extreme loss, I disagree with your viewpoint - it's them or me now.  Seriously, them killing my JH Adriatic last spring and digging up the trees they did was ... that was the straw that broke the camel's back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
If you are really going to ice squirrels then you would need to train pretty seriously, a BB gun draws negative attention in neighborhoods, so do wounded squirrels, and BBs embedded in things.


I dunno where you live, but in my neighborhood and many other single-family urban neighborhoods in the USA, random semi-auto gunfire is the norm these days.  If people are accustomed to 9mm, AK47 and .38 rounds going off, my pellet gun with a built-in silencer isn't going to bother them - sounds like a staplegun.  I've been hunting my whole life; the only thing with lead in it will be the dead squirrel carcass.  My neighbors aren't going to know, because I won't be dropping them in the neighbors' yard; I'll be doing it legally, while they're destroying my property, so that DNR can't say anything about it - not that they would, they're never around.

I would take up archery, but I've been shooting for decades, and prefer to stick with what I know, something small that doesn't need to be "collected" after firing.

Welcome Caneyscud.  Send me a private message.  I can send you some Hardy Chicago and other  squirrel resistant fig cuttings when aided by a cat from the Nashvill area humane society.  A hav-a-hart trap works well and you can take the squirrels to the folks you used to like if they don't live too close.  If you have a lot of squirrels even a new cat won't leave if you feed him some.  C.H.

Of course there are no hard feeling Jason, we just don't agree. Hawks do not eat grain. What noss described is from animals eating other poisoned animals. Poison is not safe, ever. If I found out my neighbors were using poison illegally I would stop it, however I needed to.

Be careful and try to stay out of trouble. You would be arrested for tying that giraffe to a telephone pole after it died. But who was expecting that? Better Fort Knox than Fort Leavenworth.

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