Fig season too short and unpredictable.  I need something more...something exotic, some other delicious fruit, that I can't buy in a local store.

1.  Can Pawpaw be successfully be grown in Zone 7-b?

2.  Varietal recommendations....Both named varieties should ripen within, approximately, the same time period.  I know it takes two different varieties to produce fruit....but which two cultivars?

3.  I don't really care too much about fruit size, but I would like to grow trees that produce a good number of fruit that will ripen early....Sept-Oct.

4.  Speculation:  Can the trees be containerized?  I want to buy two young 4-5ft. whips, twist them together like wire, and plant them in the same hole/container....i.e. two trees, one hole = good pollination = fruit.  I want to use a large, approx. 50-gallon, plastic, garbage barrel, or huge storage tub, for the container.  My plan is to keep trimming the trees to keep them small, with a limited number of fruit-bearing branches.

I have never tasted a Pawpaw...don't know anyone who grows them, never seen a tree except in catalogs....but I read that the fruit is delicious, like a Mango, but, with small pits.  I'm not bothered by pits.

How long until these trees produce fruit, are they prone to diseases, are they easy to grow?


Just asking the experts on this forum.  If I missed anything, let me know.


Frank

Greetings Frank

I'm trying to get some seeds sprouting right now. Purchased them from Bass on his site, after discovering some Zebra Swallowtail butterflies about our house earlier this spring. Apparently this type of Swallowtail relies totally on PawPaw leaves. I know they are native to this Mid-Atlantic region, but have yet to taste one. Visited a local nursery last weekend where they had a large, 10 ft tall PawPaw, $225.00. The only one they had, a bit pricey for my pocketbook.

Here's a snap of the Zebra Swallowtail, good luck with your PP.

Pawpaws are not domesticated plants.  Which means they are trickier to get going, especially for grafted varietals.  They also die unpredictably from fungal diseases.  They are not truly happy in pots, and are poor transpanters.  The grafted varietals do not consistently have a strong qualitative advantage over seedlings and are less vigorous.  Don't do no funky stuff.  They take about four to five years to fruit, if growing well.  The Prolific variety has been known to fruit in two.  Pawpaws are hardy to about zone five.

Pawpaws generally have a season.  Even early ones aren't that early, and most of the quality selections tend to be towards the same time.  It's unlikely that predictably selecting a specific ripening time will be effective.  Depends on your climate and on your selection's behavior in response.  They aren't even necessarily requiring of cross-pollenation.  Sunflower, for example, is one known at least partially self fruitful variety.  If you have the space, I would go for four or five selections.  One Kentucky variant, like Wabash or Atwood, one or two Peterson variants (mild taste (Shenandoah) and heavy taste (Susquehanna)), and one or two seedlings from known good fruit.  Count on some of your selections to do nothing or die unpredictably.

I know that dogwood fruit flavor has been compared to pawpaws.  The milder ones are probably going to taste recognizably like Cherimoyas, and the heavier ones are going to, well, not like mangos specifically, but will have an intense and specific fruit flavor--I'd guess like the nicer boutique (like Jamaican Reds) bananas you'd never find at Kroger than mangos.  The primary virtue of pawpaws (given that I've never had one) apparently is the high fat content.  The less mushy ones will have texture not too far from avocados.

Bass has a few for sale, Starks sells them and a couple others do too. Sourcing can be difficult, especially at this time of year. You don't want to buy bare root trees, they don't seem to do well in transplanting, gotta buy potted starters.  Sunflower, Mango and Taytoo were recommended to me, all of which I am currently growing. Takes a few years to get established but they seem to grow steadily for me. Extremely hardy, excellent tasting fruit, cool looking trees. I highly recommend trying. I am probably 2 or 3 years away from first fruits, but tasted them at Bass's and wow are they good!

shah8:

Thanks for the eye-opening opinions that were stated in your posting.  I like the reality-check....shoot-from-the-hip approach that you chose.

I know absolutely nothing about Pawpaw growing, and to tell you the truth, now that you got my head straight, I realize that my plans will probably not work.  Didn't know that these trees can suddenly fail, or, die....that the trees took between 2-5 years to fruit, etc.  I took good notice of all the caveats that you listed.

I'm glad that I didn't impulsively buy some trees.  I will probably forget the whole idea of growing Pawpaw.  I have very limited room, and very limited patience.  I can't imagine waiting up to five years for anything, much less some fruit.  I grow figs only because the trees produce the big, pay-off, so quickly.

Thanks for all the help.  I'm very happy I asked the forum members first before I placed an order.


Mark B:  Good luck with the seeds.


Frank

Pawpaws grow like weeds dunno what Shah8 is doing but  something isn't working for him. Most losses are due to improperly grafted trees. With seed grown that isn't even a problem. That is also why I recommended Bass as he has the grafting down perfectly, good reports from Starks as well.    

Pawpaw are easy care trees if you start with potted trees from a good source. Bareroot Pawpaw as stated are tough and many have had failures on bareroot.  They would not do well in pot long-term from my view. They will take a few years to produce but no more than most fruit trees. Very few fruit trees produce in 1 or 2 years, you are spoiled by figs early return.  Many Grafted Mulberry produce some in the 1st couple years, you may get set on some pomegranate, but if you are looking at good production in 2 years think Raspberry, Blackberry. 

BLB, if you got yours going, and they're older than, say four years, then yes, very carefree and productive.

Bronxfigs, pawpaws are pretty darn high value fruits, and more valuable (and much easier to care for--the problem is weird stuff cropping up that you can't figure out or do something about) productive plants than any figs you can really grow in the Bronx.  It's just a bit of a gamble-but only a bit.  Just be ruthless when a tree is all, stuck at 12 inches for a couple of years, and expect the worst for sudden collapses.

Given the quality of the fruit and the retail value, and also given that even more than figs, pawpaws can't be handled and shipped at a corporate level, pawpaws are a no-brainer to try, even purely for your own enjoyment.

I'm planning on going to the Paw Paw Festival here in Ohio this month. I'm very excited as I've never tasted one. I have 2 tiny little plants that I got from our Soil and Water Conservation District. I'm planning on picking up some more at the festival.

To chime in, I got 2 paw paws in the spring, planted them in dappled shade, and they are off to the races. The deer are uninterested in them for some reason, that is just one more positive feature. They seem to be trouble free here in Zone 7, when I peek in on them, they look like big tropical houseplants.

I grow some paw paw in TN, zone 7 a. My trees that have adequate soil moisture (all this year ) are growing like weeds. I don't think they will succeed in pots. They can be a challenge to establish, but once established, are care free if given adequate moisture. Pollination can be a challenge, all my fruit this year is the result of hand cross pollination. I have some ripening now. Will post a picture soon.

Thank you all for helping me with the Pawpaw questions.  The newer information is a little more encouraging.  Still not sure if I will try them, but only because of space considerations.  I was hoping to plant them into large containers, but I can see/read, that this would not be a viable growing method. 

All is not lost.  I have a friend who has plenty of land.  I'm sure he wouldn't mind some high-value trees on his property.

So this is what I got from the replies:
1.  Go with potted trees
2.  Buy named varieties, from a good source
3.  Containerizing is out of the question
4.  Site them correctly, i.e...dappled shade, moisture at roots, etc.   Hope for the best, but be ready for failures.
5.  2-5 years until fruit.  I am spoiled by growing figs.

Are these trees pruned for shape and production? 
Hand pollination????  Do the varieties mentioned like "Mango", "Sunflower"...etc. make flowers at the same time? 

I have often wondered why these Pawpaw trees are not offered in my local nurseries/garden centers. In fact, I have never seen them being offered for sale.   I smell high failure-rates, and envision dissatisfied customers chewin' out the managers and asking for refunds.

Now that I have - thanks to all of you forum members - some more of the Pawpaw story, I'm going to do some research.

Thanks for all the help.


Frank



E D I T : 
I have been doing some research into the different varieties.  So far, I have read nothing about which varieties will pollinate another variety, and no mention about coincidental  flowering times between the different cultivars.  So... if I select two-three varieties, and they don't flower at the same time....then, few,  or,  no fruit? 

I don't like those odds.

They will all cross with each other, pretty sure flowering time is close or the same. The big problem with growing in a pot and possible cause for failure when planting in  ground is the taproot. Pawpaws produce a very deep taproot which cannot be cut or damaged as it will kill the plant. So no root pruning and when transplanting, it's best not to disturb the root ball 

OK...now we're getting somewhere.  Most varieties flower at the same time, then, the Tango starts.

BLB:  Thanks for that info.


Frank

Frank,

I don’t remember ever seeing a pollination listing for Pawpaws as I have other fruit. Generally only states you need more than one, but you are correct in being concerned about pollination, as the flowers are not visited heavily by our normal pollinators.  Some folks report much better fruit set with hand pollination. I have read of folks hanging road kill in the trees or similar tactics to try and attract the flies and beetles that help in the pollination attracted by the fetid smell of the flowers.  I have seen Pawpaw native patches   that produce sparse if any fruit, and my understanding is that they are all likely vegetative clones interconnected by their roots started by suckers. 

 Some of the best info can be found on the Kentucky State program http://www.pawpaw.kysu.edu/  They have pretty much taken forefront on research and serve as the USDA National Clonal Germplasm Repository.

I have probably 20 young grafted trees and several seedlings at 2 locations, but can’t make   recommendations based on personal tasting beyond a couple cultivars, but I have eaten a lot of the native fruits, which locally to me are smaller and seedier than the named selections. Some wild populations are pretty comparable to named selections. Pawpaw have not been through the centuries of selective crosses by man that some of our fruits have so named cultivars are normally selections from the wild or the results of 1 or 2 generations of crosses .   The named cultivars I have started are Shenandoah, Susquehanna, Potomac, Mango, Sunflower, Pennsylvania Golden as young trees.  I have some grafts of a couple additional cultivars made onto some native trees.

I hope no offense was taken by the “spoiled by figs statement”  , but that’s just another plus on the amazing fig it’s precocious nature. I am still waiting on nuts from some trees planted in the late 90’s. That will try a man’s patience.    

strudeldog....

Sure appreciate all the great information that you, and others have given me...and absolutely took no offense by your ..."spoiled by figs"....statement. 

You happen to be right.  I am spoiled, and spoiled rotten.  I have no patience, and can rarely wait for anything.  That comes from living in NYC all my life. I have a built-in, short, attention span.  Not a good trait.  That's why I love growing figs.  Very little waiting time for good fruit.

I doubt, after reading all the provisos about growing Pawpaw, that I will venture into this territory.  I don't have the land for planting, nor, do I have the required ability to wait for the big payoff that will come sometime in the future.  I ain't no kid, so time matters....tick-tock. : )))

Thanks again for taking the time to explain a few things to me.

Frank

Frank,
I picked up two grafted plants (different cultivar) from Trees of Joy in June, They were growing well, until they were attacked by tomato horn worms, which destroyed half of the leaves, before I noticed them. I was under the impression that they were relatively pest free. I guess I will have to keep an eye out for Sphinx Moths.
It'll be a few years before I have anything to report.

That any insects loved them would be pretty unusual.  Annonacae member are a virtual chemical warfare plant.  They just have a great deal of expertise in making nutritious fruit without too many of the chems...for the most part.

Hello Pete....

Sorry your trees of joy, turned into, the trees of aggravation!  I think I'm gonna pass on the Pawpaw growing.   Good luck in the future.



shah8, and others who have replied: 

I'm still glad I asked my questions.  I learned a lot about the art of Pawpaw growing, with all its merits, and demerits.


Frank

I'm back.

Yesterday, for the very first time, ever, I had the pleasurable occasion to taste a ripe Pawpaw.  It was a delicious, startling, flavor blend of mango, pineapple, and banana with the texture of an avocado, or, a custardy flan. 

Now, I'm sorry that I did not plant a few of these trees years ago, and that I don't have the space to plant them.  Nothing comes close to the flavor of this fruit.  It amazes me that these trees are not sold in local nurseries, and that they are not more common.  In all my years of schlepping around garden centers, I have never seen any of these trees for sale.  Some of our forum posters have hinted at a few of the demerits of Pawpaw trees that might limit the commercial availability, but growing peaches and apples can be a PITA too!  These kind of fruit trees are prime targets for all kinds of diseases, rusts, blights, bugs...and, whatever, and almost always produce so-so fruit.

I am really disappointed to realize that these trees do will not do well growing in a large tub like a 55 gallon barrel, and that at least two or more different varieties are really needed to ensure the setting of fruit.  I also don't relish the idea of having to wait for a few years for the big payoff.

I wonder:  If two or more varieties are needed for better pollination, and to increase fruit yield, why then are understock-trees not grafted with two or more varieties so that a more salable tree could be pitched by the trade as being more "self-fruitful'?  If buds of named varieties are grafted to understock trees, just graft more buds to make a combo-tree....sell it for triple the price.  At least the end customer will more than likely, get quicker, and surer, fruiting.  I must be missing something.


Frank

Frank, I've got a tree fruiting in a pot. I also have grafted a couple varieties into one tree in the past. 
I've been picking pawpaws for the past 2 weeks... Over the weekend, I probably sampled over 20 varieties.
I've been shipping fresh fruit to customers when I have enough fruit. They're wonderful.

Bass;

Wonderful news! I'm encouraged by your opening sentence, and, second revelation.  Potted, fruiting, grafted, pawpaws?  Now, I need to find out more about this growing method.

I could not believe how delicious these pawpaw fruits tasted.  They make a perfect taste counterpoint, after the figs are finishing their season.

Thanks Bass for the added information...and, a pleasure meeting you.


Frank

Bass, I'm very curious as I know with Pawpaw the taproot is critical for growth and production. Can you describe the pot you are using? Is it very deep, large? I think getting Pawpaw to fruit in a container is a real revelation! Nice work!

Frank good to meet you yesterday at Tim's fig meeting, glad you were able to sample Pawpaw. Donna and I were also at that Pawpaw tasting event Bass mentioned and it was fantastic. Every variety has a different flavor blend, all were excellent. I can't wait for mine to fruit!!

B-

Still thinking about how nice it was to meet Tim, and everyone else.  Perfect day, perfect people, perfect reason to get together.

Pawpaw has really been quite a surprise for me.  I would love to know more about the methods that Bass is using to grow in containers.  If this is possible, I'm willing to invest in some older named, trees.  If they need a deep container, I wonder of a large, deep, plastic (trash) barrels, fermentation tanks, watering troughs etc. will work?

Bass....we need some lessons.  Didn't know you hosted a tasting event for Pawpaw.   : ( 


Frank

It wasn't my event but the fruit growers club I volunteer at. At was at a friend's place. For club members usually.

The pawpaw that is fruiting in a pot is in a half barrel. It made several flowers but only kept 3 fruits. I had it next to another pawpaw for cross pollination.