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Oh, MY! WHAT is going on with this cutting??

fig roots on cutting.jpg
These are English Brown Turkey fig cuttings that I put in moist potting mix (1/3 compost, 1/3 coarse vermiculite, 1/3 peat moss) and covered with a plastic bag less than a week ago. I am supposed to leave them alone for 3 weeks, but I checked on them today and this is what I found! These look an awful lot like roots to me, but I didn't think I stuck it in the dirt upside down, and the little leaf bud seems like it is pointing up.





It happens (pretty common), especially with really vigorous varieties like English Brown Turkey.  Doesn't look upside down to me.  From the shape of the leaf scars, it looks right.  Just ignore those roots up in the air.  Odds are good that it's making some down in the soil too, and the ones in the air will shrivel and disappear.

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelTucson
It happens (pretty common), especially with really vigorous varieties like English Brown Turkey.  Doesn't look upside down to me.  From the shape of the leaf scars, it looks right.  Just ignore those roots up in the air.  Odds are good that it's making some down in the soil too, and the ones in the air will shrivel and disappear.

Mike



Whew---I was getting confused. The guy who gave me the cuttings made the bottoms flat and the tops angled. I still got one upside down, but I turned it right side up when I noticed it today. I have several of these cuttings and this is the only one generating excitement for me,I think the others are okay. So glad to know this is common, even though I don't think it is "normal." If I get just ONE of these to grow into a tree, I will be happy.

Sky high humidity ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gorgi
Sky high humidity ...
Actuallly, I just placed the pot in a plastic grocery bag and loosely folded the top over. Wasn't sealed up really tight. Not even a lot of condensation on the bag. I am thinking this cutting is just an oddball, LOL. I am glad I got a picture and I'll be checking it every day to see what happens. I actually had forgotten about this for the past 3 or 4 days.

It happened to me few times... I just cut right between the roots and the new growth and planted the top part separately, now I have more than I was planning to have. Gift to be :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron4USA
It happened to be few times... I just cut right between the roots and the new growth and planted the top part separately, now I have more than I was planning to have. Gift to be :)


Seriously???? This is actually a self-air layer????? COOL!!!. Should I wrap it up? Does it matter if there is just a tiny stump of stem above the roots? You just plant it at a depth to cover the roots, or what?

I LOVE that idea! At what point should I cut it? NOW or should I wrap it like a regular air layer and let it develop more roots?  I wish I had several doing this at a time so I could experiment.  My first instinct tells me to cut it now and stick it into its own fresh potting medium so the rest of the cutting can focus on making roots in the ground (and I can get a head start on rooting this BONUS cutting!)

Funny how some scionwood roots so easily and some can be a pita.
Good luck with them.

Follow your first instinct, IMO. Snip it off and cup it up now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnmom66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron4USA
It happened to be few times... I just cut right between the roots and the new growth and planted the top part separately, now I have more than I was planning to have. Gift to be :)


Seriously???? This is actually a self-air layer????? COOL!!!. Should I wrap it up? Does it matter if there is just a tiny stump of stem above the roots? You just plant it at a depth to cover the roots, or what?

I LOVE that idea! At what point should I cut it? NOW or should I wrap it like a regular air layer and let it develop more roots?  I wish I had several doing this at a time so I could experiment.  My first instinct tells me to cut it now and stick it into its own fresh potting medium so the rest of the cutting can focus on making roots in the ground (and I can get a head start on rooting this BONUS cutting!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drphil69
Follow your first instinct, IMO. Snip it off and cup it up now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnmom66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron4USA
It happened to be few times... I just cut right between the roots and the new growth and planted the top part separately, now I have more than I was planning to have. Gift to be :)


Seriously???? This is actually a self-air layer????? COOL!!!. Should I wrap it up? Does it matter if there is just a tiny stump of stem above the roots? You just plant it at a depth to cover the roots, or what?

I LOVE that idea! At what point should I cut it? NOW or should I wrap it like a regular air layer and let it develop more roots?  I wish I had several doing this at a time so I could experiment.  My first instinct tells me to cut it now and stick it into its own fresh potting medium so the rest of the cutting can focus on making roots in the ground (and I can get a head start on rooting this BONUS cutting!)

I think I'll do it tomorrow...I don't want to leave it long enough for the roots to dry up, but I think I'd like another day or two...if it keeps growing as fast as it has in the past 3 or 4 days...a little extra root should be good. I think the worst that might happen is that the part I cut off might die, but it sounds like the roots will die for sure if I leave it too long.

yes cut below the roots and plant the rooted part deep enough to berry the roots and (if you want ) leave the tip poking the surface so it can see light and that tiny green eye starts to grow to a branch. make sure to cover the new rooted cutting with a plastic cup, give it a greenhouse effect.

How long do they need a plastic cup over them?

keep it for good 3-4 weeks...

but with mines, when I pull them out from Zip-lock and plant them in 1Gallons I leave the cup only 1-2 weeks, it diffuses the light and, same time, keeps them moist. Sudden outdoors seems to dehydrate them and things can go really bad.

New Rootings.jpg 

Hi tnmom66,
I would take a small plastic pot - the ones that are used to grow small tomatoes plants from seeds - cut the bottom and put the sides around the cutting. Gently fill that pot with dirt to burrow the roots and let them grow down
to the real pot .
I have to check but I think I have a cutting that did that - but no roots under in the dirt - so IMO, I should have saved those roots instead of letting them dry out - because now the cutting dried out too... after making 2 stems of 2 leaves.
It looked healthy and now I pulled it out from the dirt and put it in a cup of water to see if the stems get un-shriveled - if so - I'll put the two stems in a pot outside for swim or sink !

Well, I potted up the top of that cutting before I read the last suggestions.

Interestingly, when I was cutting the top part off, I accidentally pulled the cutting out of the soil and there were NO ROOTS down there, but one or two other cuttings look like they may be trying to make "air roots."  I have decided that this is the last time I will try to root cuttings in potting soil. They seem to like the vermiculite a lot better. I have 2 cuttings in a small plastic box full of damp vermiculite and they are getting roots. The ones in paper towel/plastic bag aren't doing anything, so I put them in vermiculite today.

This little stem cutting with the "air roots' went into the bottom of a small plastic water bottle and I buried it in damp vermiculite to where the top of the stem is just showing. Then I put the whole thing in a zip lock bag. Since the bottom of the cutting wasn't getting roots, I replanted that cutting in plain vermiculite today, too, to see if it will make roots at the bottom in vermiculite since it wasn't doing it in the potting soil.

Another thing I won't do again is put cuttings in an opaque pot. I have plenty of clear plastic cups and I like to be able to see when the roots are becoming substantial.

I think that if these other cuttings end up making such big "air roots", I will do what jdsfrance suggested, at least on one of them. That makes good sense, and I don't have to worry about what is going on underground. I am thinking about taking the cuttings that I have in the potting soil out and putting them in vermiculite in clear containers, IF they don't look like they are making "air roots."  This is very interesting to me and I want to experiment.











Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsfrance
Hi tnmom66,
I would take a small plastic pot - the ones that are used to grow small tomatoes plants from seeds - cut the bottom and put the sides around the cutting. Gently fill that pot with dirt to burrow the roots and let them grow down
to the real pot .
I have to check but I think I have a cutting that did that - but no roots under in the dirt - so IMO, I should have saved those roots instead of letting them dry out - because now the cutting dried out too... after making 2 stems of 2 leaves.
It looked healthy and now I pulled it out from the dirt and put it in a cup of water to see if the stems get un-shriveled - if so - I'll put the two stems in a pot outside for swim or sink !


I have another cutting in that same pot the other one was in and since the roots were only between the leaves and the soil (the first cutting that sprung "air roots" made them ABOVE the leaf bud, which has since opened up) I put a section of a paper towel tube over it and filled it with vermiculite...similar to your bottomless pot idea. cutting base.jpg  bottom part of the cutting with the air roots, and top part, potted separately in moist vermiculite in plastic bags. They were cut and potted up April 15. these pics taken today, April 18cutting top.jpg 



Pictures of the SECOND cutting to make "air roots"--but not as long or as numerous as the other cutting. Will be interesting to see in a few weeks if it roots in the soil or just in the vermiculite. I think one cutting in this pot is dead. If you look carefully, the cutting in the middle, next to the one with all the green, is making an air root...that little white piece poking out is that the other ones did.   second air root 2.jpg 

 second air root.jpg 
...These are the 2 smallest cuttings in a sandwich sized box of moist vermiculite, and I put the lid on it.

small cutting in box.jpg 


pot them up quick before the roots start to rot. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet08
pot them up quick before the roots start to rot. 


Seriously? Are you talking about the 2 little cuttings? I didn't think they had enough roots to bother with potting...at leas not the smaller of the 2. If they already have substantial roots, do I pot them in regular potting mix (I make my own with 1/3 peat moss, 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 mixed compost) or should I pot them in cups of vermiculite? I have seen pictures of cuttings grown in perlite till the roots fill the pots!  I only potted up the top section of that first cutting with "air roots" because I was afraid they'd die. They did get another day's growth past this picture (which was 3 or 4 days worth) before I potted it.

i move them when they have about 1/4" of roots into 1:1 perlite and seedling soil mix. i lost plenty cuttings waiting too long. they will star to dry up.. well in my set up. if you provide more moisture as in your set up, they will last longer, but with more moisture, more chance of rot. also longer roots doesn't mean much when you break them while trying to pot them up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet08
i move them when they have about 1/4" of roots into 1:1 perlite and seedling soil mix. i lost plenty cuttings waiting too long. they will star to dry up.. well in my set up. if you provide more moisture as in your set up, they will last longer, but with more moisture, more chance of rot. also longer roots doesn't mean much when you break them while trying to pot them up.


Okay, these little ones are getting potted up tomorrow! I broke some roots off that little piece I cut off the top of the cutting in my original post. It will be interesting to see what happens with it. I wish the bottom part of that cutting had some roots in the soil. I don't understand how it can be putting out leaves without any root development where roots normally belong.

as long as you have at least one node above the soil.. and sometimes nodes under soil, it should put on the top growth. the important part is that you have the roots. they are nice to look at, but not doing any good for the cuttings unless they are put to the work absorbing the needed nutrients for the cutting. you might want to think about fertilizing.. very very weak fertilizer to promote top growth so the leave can start working for the cuttings also. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet08
as long as you have at least one node above the soil.. and sometimes nodes under soil, it should put on the top growth. the important part is that you have the roots. they are nice to look at, but not doing any good for the cuttings unless they are put to the work absorbing the needed nutrients for the cutting. you might want to think about fertilizing.. very very weak fertilizer to promote top growth so the leave can start working for the cuttings also. 


Do you have a fertilizer recommedtion? I like Rich's hydroponics solution suggestion, but I will have to wait till next month. What I have on hand is fish emulsion, Superthrive, some "jumpstart" fertilizer to help establish new transplants, and I could make compost tea.

when you move the cutting to a cup or 1 gal pot, you want to pre-wet the soil mix. just like the s. moss or the paper towel for rooting, you do not want your soil mix to be wet. you want the soil mix to be just moist. you shouldn't be able to squeeze out water when holding the soil, but you should feel moisture. once the cutting is in the soil mix, you do not want to water until the tree needs it. meaning when the pot is light and the leaves look a little droopy.

some members will wet the soil mix with MG fertilizer with very week solution. not sure what strength they use.

for me, if the cutting is in the cup, i bottom feed it with something like one tiny scoop per 1.5 gal. if the roots look weak i go less. if the cutting is in the 1 gal, i bottom feed at same strength. after about a month, and the roots have grown a lot, i will start top feeding the fertilizer. still the same strength.

once the rooots have grown a lot and start to circle the pot, i go to 1/2 to full strength.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet08
when you move the cutting to a cup or 1 gal pot, you want to pre-wet the soil mix. just like the s. moss or the paper towel for rooting, you do not want your soil mix to be wet. you want the soil mix to be just moist. you shouldn't be able to squeeze out water when holding the soil, but you should feel moisture. once the cutting is in the soil mix, you do not want to water until the tree needs it. meaning when the pot is light and the leaves look a little droopy.

some members will wet the soil mix with MG fertilizer with very week solution. not sure what strength they use.

for me, if the cutting is in the cup, i bottom feed it with something like one tiny scoop per 1.5 gal. if the roots look weak i go less. if the cutting is in the 1 gal, i bottom feed at same strength. after about a month, and the roots have grown a lot, i will start top feeding the fertilizer. still the same strength.

once the rooots have grown a lot and start to circle the pot, i go to 1/2 to full strength.


What is MG? I potted the 2 little ones in cups today. I expect it will be a while before they need to go in 1 gal. pots.

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