Are the grafted hybrid varieties much better than say Eastern seedling paw paws?

I've looked at some that Neal Peterson hybridized, for example Patomac or Susquehanna, but I'm wondering if they are much better than say Eastern or native paw paws?

I never had a paw paw and we have the same hardiness zone as north Georgia

as you might guess i grow some pawpaw.  the named grafted varieties will get you larger fruit on a younger tree. my favorites are shenandoah, susquehanna, ksu atwood, allegheny.  they should do well in NJ.  they can be a little tricky to establish.  like good soil moisture.  once established, they really take off.  edible landscaping, rain tree nursery, one green world are good sources for grafted varieties

I always plant paw paw trees any place I live as they are the only place the zebra swallowtail butterfly will lay eggs and this is my favorite butterfly. I plant seeds I stored in sand in the frig. I collect these seeds by walking river banks. There are a lot of paw paws here in VA.
Anyway I've been able to sample a lot of native paw paws and I do think the named varieties sold by places like edible landscaping taste better. Bill can probably tell you more about how much difference there is in growth, fruiting, size, etc.
I have, btw, found a fair amount of variation in the paw paws from around the state here. I just got a nice 6 foot paw paw for this property. I haven't found them yet but I'm sure that within the 200+ acre forest that butts up to my yard paw paws exist. I think this due to the large amount of zebra swallowtails I see around here.
Enriching the fabric of my environment is both enjoyable and helpful as I do get a lot of help from beneficials in my veggie garden.

Check out Peterson Pawpaws: http://www.petersonpawpaws.com/index.php

They're responsible for some of the most popular cultivars. There are pictures and descriptios of the varieties on the site, and they have a list of sellers, some of which Bill mentioned above.

From what I've read (still waiting for mine to fruit!) named cultivars tend to be better than seedling, however many people have seedling strains/selections of their own that they prefer to the Peterson cultivars (there's a massive thread on GardenWeb if you have some time to kill). Allegedly some PawPaws have an aftertaste that some find unappealing, not everyone tastes it, and the Peterson cultivars supposedly don't have it or not as much.

My 2 cents, get cheap seedlings (Oikos Tree Crops has the cheapest I've seen out there if you don't have someone local) to know if you like them.  You could graft them over to something else later. No point jumping in the deep end.

Michael: Haven't seen swallowtails on mine, but I did have Saddleback Caterpillars last year, crazy looking things! And venomous to boot.

PS: PawPaw's can realistically only be propagated by seedlings, grafting, and digging up rooted suckers. Ignore anyone who claims they can root cuttings.

The Zebra Swallowtail is a southern species moving northward as our climate tempers.  This winter may have been a bit of a set-back for them, but in PA they are most reliably seen in the York area along the Susquehannah River (where pawpaws are their primary host plant).  Here is a map of sightings, if you are interested.  It is a great butterfly!  We have seen them outside of Philly only a few times, and they haven't used my pawpaws . . . yet :>)

If you find a wild paw paw that you like just take the fruit and plant the seed, it should be close to the parent if I understand it correctly.  I have a wabash and a potomac I hope they survived the winter/dog pee/dog chewing at the trunk.

Here is a story by MPR: http://www.mprnews.org/story/npr/140894570
There was a nice video but I guess the story is so old they don't bother to provide the video anymore.

I've had seven pawpaws in the ground for about two years. They are a couple different varieties from mail order nurseries including Isons near Griffin, Georgia: http://store.isons.com/specialty-fruits/paw-paws

I think some of them came from Willis Orchards, also in Georgia: http://www.willisorchards.com/category/pawpaw-trees#.UzaxZahdV4I  

I lost one this year and they have only been establishing roots, with little to no top growth yet but the leaves have looked good. The seedlings are sensitive to UV, which is why they should be protected the first couple years from full sun, all day.

They have a long, deep tap root. I wouldn't buy one that is more than two years old to plant.

I used mulch mats and planted them in a semi shaded area beneath large pines, away from the house since the flowers are supposed to smell like rotting meat since they are pollinated by flies rather than bees. 

I have a north facing front yard and I'm wondering if I could put a couple paw paws in front of the house about 2 - 3 feet from the foundation. It's an area that does not get allot of direct sunlight. It's protected from wind by the house. Boxwood and Japanese maples grow there now.

I'd try that, as far from the foundation as is practical. I doubt it would need serious pruning for many years but Bill has more experience with these.

I have pawpaw rootstock.  Anyone here interested in selling some named-variety scion (or can you tell me where to get scion)?

Kyle

Updating this thread to let people know that Cliff England has some rarer Pawpaw varieties in stock:

Maria's Joy--Davis x Prolific cross, formerly well known as 166-13.  This seems to have a solid rep among aficionados because of size, a mild Tapioca/mango flavor, and good production.

250-39--Sunflower (low key...good proven quality with a bitterness issue with some of the fruit)x Sam Norris 15.  Very large fruit that's closer to banana in taste.  Much less data out there among forums as to how well it performs.

Halvin--wild seedling from way up northwest.  Seems to be pretty good, but hasn't really been in the hands of enough people yet to know.  Its proponents talk up a pineapple note.

Large grafted specimens (3'-5') are available for Davis and Rebecca's Gold.  

So far as I have dug through comments...

Rappahannock--supposed to be easier to harvest with leaves away from the fruit and a little coloration.  Very mixed reviews out there.

Allegheny--successful variety that grows well and gives more than acceptable quality fruit.  Needs some fruit to be removed for size, and it's relatively seedy.  Very much dooryard rather than orchard pawpaw.

Shenandoah--Has good market acceptance due to mild and smooth taste.

Potomac--people seem to be happy with this one, low key, but has been consistently overshadowed by other varieties.  Fruit split an issue?

Wabash--clearly the best performing Peterson variety at this point.  Good health, large fruit, good taste, good production.  Have seen mention of one person managing to get fruit from a solo tree of this.

Susquehanna--suspect that this variety exists because it has the best potential fruit.  Not that all or most of the fruits reaches that potential.  However, this one probably should be notorious for dying off.  LOTs of mentions of dead Susquehannas online.  All of the Peterson varieties are a bit low on the vigor department, and this one is the unhealthiest.

Mango--good flavor, potentially better for the south than most varieties tested out further north in the Midwest.  Vigorous tree, watery fruit that people may feel as slimy.  Fairly tropical flavor on the spectrum between mild and exotic.

Atwood--A KSYU (Peterson was involved, though) variety that hasn't really had enough reviews online.  It's probably pretty good, but should be noted that a seedling of this varietal, 250-30, has been specifically licensed out to the Far East as a premium variety.  Perhaps improvable?  In any event, it's sort of like Rappahannock in which ease of harvest is an important feature for commercial orchards.  Also notable, KYSU obviously has about four more varieties that are notable that they just haven't made an effort to publicize.  Makes one wonder.

Of the old varieties...
the two main ones are Overleese and Sunflower, as both are capable of generating enthusiastic approval for their fruits.  Then NC-1 and PA Golden.  Most of the rest aren't as systematically selected for strong advantage over wild strains.  IXL (Overleese x Davis) does seem to have a little backing, somewhere back there.

New stuff not already mentioned...Mind you, very little spread of variety, and not nearly enough comments to really know what's what...
VE-21--Prolific x Overleese.  Best appeal is early season high quality fruit.

VE-9--Prolific x Overleese.  Not much to say other than large fruit, late, high quality?  Definitely not widely planted as of now.

166-20;166-66, both are Davis x Prolific, with advantages in sweetness and yellow fruit color for easy of ripe detection and marketing.  Probably mostly just significant for breeding.

250-30--Atwood seedling.  Very large fruit with good flavor.  Tricky to get with licensing issues.

275-48--Prolific x Sam Norton-15.  Low key, seems to be one of the top new varieties.  Very large fruit with good flavor.  Again, not widely planted yet, so no surety on just how high quality it is...

275-50--same as above, seems to be a bit lower on the quality.

Of course, there are newer casual selection like Kentucky State Champion, Summer Delight, and the like, but they haven't really been tested so far as I know.

Seedlings have a success rate of about one in five seeds sown.  Defects generally include seediness, poor texture, funky taste, bitter aftertaste, size of the fruits, vigor.



 

Okay, some further notes...

Prolific is a variety selected by Corwin Davis back in 1985.  As its name might indicate, it's a relatively precocious and productive variety, much like Mango, only it was developed/found further north.  It's usually not highly thought of because it apparently has a substantial bitter aftertaste.  Even so, Prolific does have flavor and texture advantages.  It's apparently a more stiff texture than most pawpaws, and it has notes like coconut in the taste profile.  Also, smaller seeds than normal.  Judging from what I've gathered from constant google-fu, Prolific does tend to be a good parent of future high quality varieties.  One cause of bitter aftertaste is cool summers.  Prolific may be a variety that really needs those heat units, and maybe this help controls bitterness in Sunflower as well.

Mango is not a wild-found variety truly native to the South, but something selected by Major Collins from seed got further north which apparently likes it down here.

GreenRiverBelle is much like Mango in being productive, and is notably sweet.  The texture is not as soft as Mango, but has a stronger, tropical fruit taste rather than the milder Overleese taste.

Atwood does seem to be a highly consistent bearer with good productivity and good fruit.

Rappahannock, Potamac, and Wabash are fairly closely related to one another.  Shenandoah is a seedling of Overleese.  Allegheny and Susquehanna has some sort of close genes to Overleese and Shenandoah, but presumably a bit further back.

Pawpaw do not tend to do well in the Pacific Northwest due to low summer temperatures.  Seems like trying early varieties do not help in that respect.

Basically, the really big issue is that we have only Atwood, Susquehanna, Potomac, Allegheny, Shenandoah, Rappahannock, and Wabash that have resulted from anything like a professional breeding program.  In the period before, during the last half of the 80's and early half of the '90s, there were a number of selections made, such as IXL, Lynne's Favorite, Pa Golden(s), SAA Zimmerman/Overleese, Prolific, Convis; these are all only weakly and unpredictably superior to "wild" strains like Overleese, Sunflower, Wells, etc.  The pattern holds true today--Earlier in the 2k's there was a lot of talk about Shawnee Trail and Quaker's Delight.  Today, there is some interest in Jerry Lehman varieties, which are more professionally selected, but still seems to be out of a pool of seedlings that isn't really big enough, and we don't know the strictness of the selection process.  We also have a really poor idea of how a variety does outside of the Midwest.

Prolific seems to be Overleese and Taytwo.
Susquehanna and Allegheny seems to be descended from a tree with Overleese (or some other similar Indiana pawpaw) and Sweet Alice heritage.
NC-1 is Davis and something Taytwo? Taylor?

Sweet Alice, from West Virginia, has had notable success in Alabama, so it may be a South friendly pawpaw along with Mango. 

Adding note that Arkansas-21 seems to be a notable southern variety that is rare and distinguishably good at the level of Wells, etc...

Are there any other varieties other than Mango that are known to be vigorous and faster growing?

Can you tell me anything about Arkansas #9. I have sucessfully grafted it to selected seedling stock.

Awesome information on this thread!  Thank you all who collaborated. I am currently about to purchase 2-3 trees for my yard. I am soooooo excited about that!.  I was totally wondering the same things that came up here. will be bookmarking this conversation.

Regards!

Jerry Lehman's work with pawpaw shows that they improve generationally. He is getting some really huge fruit with excellent flavor. Also, as to planting pawpaws - I have repotted pawpaws of all ages with 100% success as long as they have been in a pot. But, they don't do well at all if bought bare root in the spring. My experience with bare root pawpaws is that they do ok in the spring, summer, and fall, but die sometime over the winter.