I'd like to grow a couple of grape vines but I know very little about them. Can anyone tell me what would be a couple of good varieties to grow in pots that would have leaves appropriate to use to make stuffed grape leaves and for other yummy projects for rainy days in the kitchen.
I live in zone 7 - Virginia about 50 west of Wash., D.C.
If possible I'd prefer seedless table grapes, but my main concern is getting a high quality leaf to cook with.
The local folks who grow grapes for wine seem to spray a lot. I'm "organicy" and would prefer not to have to spray -- so I'd sacrifice grape quality for ease of growing and lack of spraying.
Thanks,
mgg

Michael,

I don't think the leaves for stuffing are those of table or wine grapes.
They are the ones out in the wild and the leaves are a bit thinner than the table or wine.

This would be my moms department.
You would need to hang around with moms and pops and have a few plastic grocery bags to use.

Funny thing is one day a relative was picking leaves on state land and a cop confiscated the leaves.

i bet they tried to smoke it afterward... lol

Pete,

I can see my mom slap you in the back of the head with a frying pan for that remark. LOL


Edit: never mind, I got it. You're talking about the cop. I'm slow.

thx Rafed. I got the idea from some "ladies" magazine in my doc's office. real poor choice of reading material. I guess I need to do some research.

My mom makes it almost every Sunday.
She also stuff eggplant, bell pepper, onion, hot banana pepper and zucchini.
She stacks everything one by one in a bit pot and cooks it.

rafed, of course the cops :) we used to have a nice greek place that used to do some awesome stuffed grape leaves. then this trendy new owner bought them out and now they have no idea how to feed the customers. last time i went there, i left hungrier than when i went in... had to wait for the food and the portion as fashionably small. never go to a restaurant where the cook is thinner than the customers.

R,
What's a bit pot?
Sounds yummy.
Your mom sounds great.

There is a big difference between the ones that are served in Med restaurants now and the ones my mom/grandma/aunts made when I was a kid. They would make the rice with ground beef, lentils, raisins, and spices. I have a vague memory of the car being pulled over in Oklahoma so that my mom could pick grape leaves from a chain link fence between a vacant lot and a lake. I hated the raisins in it and would petition (usually to no avail) for them to be left out. Man it sounds so good, now...without the raisins of course.

Rafed,
I bet you're right. 
What does she stuff the banana peppers with?

Pete,
I thought that was banana peals -- "they call me mellow yellow", etc

We have those giant wild grape vines that get huge all over VA. Are those what these gals were picking?

James,

My mom chops the meat by hand into little bits and pieces. Spices it up with what ever spices she uses and chops up garlic and mixes everything in. Of course the main ingredient is rice.
Never heard of using raisons though.

I forgot to add Swiss Chard too.

thx Rafed. For some reason I've been craving and eating these things for months but I'm getting tired of them as they aren't really that good. I need to make "real" ones myself.
best and good night,
mgg

Michael, you can harvest any grape leave as long as:

-they are at least 4" around or bigger
-thin, meaning they are the tender ones, usually from the tip part #5,6,7,8... until you feel the tenderness changing to toughness STOP.
-and the most importantly any variety that doesn't have deep fingers on the leaf...meaning they are more of a open palm shape rather than entire hand:)

this way you can stuff them in a finger form and roll them, tender to chew on and delicate with some tart taste...

Did you know, you could make total vegetarian Dolmades instead of with meat? There are two recipes. The vegetarian one is with olive oil and no meat in it.

Yiasou :)

I'll have to check with my Lebanese in-laws. They have been growing grapes leaves for probably 80 years. The leaves are different than regular grape leaves as far as I can remember.

We grow wine grapes, and I always wanted to try to make dolmadas (love those) with the leaves.  I don't know what variety, but I've read you need the young fresh leaves, not the old raggedy ones.  Steaming or boiling makes the leaves soft enough to roll up.  Of my vines Perlette (seedless white) has huge leaves, as does Tempranillo (wine red).  Cabernet leaves are sort of small with too many fingers.  Think of figs.  Many varieties, like Ronde de bordeaux have too many fingers, but Alma has a nice smooth leaf.

Grapes grow easily in containers.  To find a good variety that will grow well in your climate, spend a day here at the National Grape Registery.  Accept the entry, then click on varieties.   Each grape has it's country of origin, so if you find any originating in a climate like yours, you will have success.  It will state where the grape is available for purchase, and UC Davis offers cuttings also.  Once you find some you think would be good where you are, google search each one, and you will see photos of the leaves and grapes.

If your climate is humid, people spray to prevent powdery mildew, which will ruin a crop.  They also spray for other diseases and pests.  They care more about the crop than the leaves, but you will be snatching early green leaves before pests can get to them, right?

Most of the people in the Mediterranean grow grapes for wine.  They mostly all have figs and grapes.  Not so sure about the wild grapes, but we've got them here too, so make sure there is more palm than fingers on the variety you choose.

Have fun!

Suzi

just look for the leaf shape, that's all matters, they all taste great for dolmades, it's just that shape makes it easy to roll them... see these pics. you see how the first pic has finger shaped hand shaped leaf? it's not going to have enough center to put the mixture then fold the sides then roll it like a middle finger shape and size...as where the second pic, although on a smaller side the leaf has a Palm of a hand shape which gives more working area... you can easily place the mixture in the middle and shape it like a finger by folding the sides in and roll it to a finger shape :)
It's Art, not just food preparation!

 
Suzi, our garden is all organic, we never use any chemicals on any of our plants, because we try to eat them too...so, when harvesting the grape leaves I hand it to my wife who freezes them in air tight zip-locks until there is enough for the entire family... when she is ready to make the dolmades she thaws the leaves then rinses them in hot water, then they are ready to be rolled.

If anyone is looking to pick wild grape leaves just make sure to not confuse them with Canadian Moonseed.
All parts of moonseed are poisonous and can be fatal if eaten.
The vines resemble grapevines but lack the tendrils and the fruit has one crescent seed.
If you're not 100% sure of what you're picking it can be your last supper. For real!

I didn't even know anything about Wild Grapes... more info please? maybe pics?

Grapes with good large entire leaves,thin enogh for ,eating,resistant to disease:Mars Seedless.

I bought a vine from our local grocery store about four years ago. If I recall correctly they had it labeled Cabernet Seedless. The grapes are bright red, seedless and super sweet. I get about a dozen of them each year.The Concord is no good when it comes to eating the leaves. I never spray my vine. I just use garlic and soap if I need to spray. The location in which it sits,  is so sunny that no insect can survive. I never water it and I guess it gets irrigated when I water my lawn.The young leaves are excellent for cooking.
Here are the leaves: