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Bass

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Reply with quote  #1 
Although this is a fig forum, I'm sure many of us are interested in fruit in general. I wanted to share some info and photos of another one of my favorite fruit, Pawpaw is largest wild American fruit. 
Now it is Pawpaw season, a week ago I went down to a trail in southern Pennsylvania to pick Pawpaw from the wild.
It can be found in Pennsylvania in the Amish country, here's a photo along my way to pick pawpaw.


Close to the Susquehanna river, among the wooded area there's a little trail I took. After 15 mins walk I came across the Pawpaw patch


Trees are usually loaded with fruit, usually the wild ones bear fruit.

 
These are the pawpaw fruit my tree, the variety is called Sunflower. They ripened the first week of September this year.


Here's my friend a fig grower, and a member of this forum who went along with me for picking last year. 

Pawpaw is perfectly hardy and is adaptable to the Northeast down to zone 5. It can be found all the way down to Gerogia and in the midwest in Michigan and Ohio where there's the annual Pawpaw festival in September in Pawpaw, Ohio. 
It is related to the Annona family, you might be familiar with Cherimoya, Sugar apple, Soursop. You can see the resembling in leaf shape and the seeds. 
The taste is excellent, many people describe it as a banana with mango pudding. 


I know some folks in California who tried growing it there and were successful, they don't seem to develop the best flavor in that climate.



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OttawanZ5

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Reply with quote  #2 
Bass
I like figs since it is fig Forum.
However I bought two pawpaw plants from Grimo Nut Nursery and the instructions were to plant it under a tree for the first few years. That was OK because I did not have any place other place. They have been in the ground for for 3 or 4 years in Zone 5a near cedar hedges under a huge maple tree. Plants are alive healthy green but not growing in size and making me impatient. I am not sure if it is slow growing or these are planted in a wrong place.

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Bass

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They like shade when young, but they don't grow big unless they see the sun. You may need to fertilize them. If you got them as a bare rooted tree chances are they're still in shock. They don't like being transplanted, unless they were grown in a pot and then into the ground they won't do well.
My tree started bearing within 3 years.

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Bass--In an effort to expose my small collection of figs to a little cultural diversity, I'm looking for a few additional types of fruit that might grow in Tucson (and that I'm unlikely to find in the grocery store). You've convinced me to find a Li Jujube, and I'm wondering about a Pawpaw as well. Do you think it might have a snowball's chance in Tucson? I've read online that they can produce in zone 8, and I'm in 8a, but it also sounds as if they like some humidity, which we only experience from July-September.


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Ken
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Bass

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Reply with quote  #5 
I'm sure it will grow for you but since your area doesn't provide its usual conditions, you will to give it extra care. Such as shading while small, and irrigation.

Here's some photo from last week at the Pawpaw festival. It's a big thing.

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Reply with quote  #6 
hI Ottawan,
I'm also trying pawpaws in Kitchener ontario zdb or 6a depending on where you look.
I bought two potted plants from Henry Fields this past spring, which have put on about a foot of growth this summer. 
will be getting another from Grimo next spring, from his billing info I gather he ships them in pots.
lets keep in touch on this to compare how they grow in the great white north.

Grant

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Grant
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hblta

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Reply with quote  #7 
zdb ??? that should have been z5b
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Reply with quote  #8 
Bass,

The real question is this, Does this plant produce flowers with a real bad odor? I heard it stinks bad.

Is this true? If so, How bad and for how long?

Not trying to push a panic button here but need to know.

Thanks

GeorgiaFig

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Reply with quote  #9 
Hi Bass.  Great pictures.  Thanks.

My Mom grows a big crop of Pawpaws every year in Indiana, enough for everyone.  We just visited and got some to bring home too.  And at least to our taste they are very good, kind of a smooth banana/sweet apple flavor with a hint of butterscotch.

I am growing some here in Georgia as well, and it does seem to take them a couple years to settle in before they start growing well.

But overall they are a very good, trouble free fruit.  No insect problems that I have ever seen, productive and easy to grow once established.

And Ken: I picked our first Jujube fruits just a few weeks ago.  They are still very small trees, but the fruit was good.  Unusual, but good.  They reminded me of dates a little bit.

And just to keep with the fig theme, our Hardy Chicago is still producing strong, as is the LSU Purple, even as other figs seem to be slowing down with the shortening days and cooling weather.

Best wishes to all.

John
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possum_trot

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Reply with quote  #10 
I have several large pawpaw patches in the woods behind my house. They bloom well each spring but there is never a single fruit. I wonder if each patch is made of suckers from an original plant and can't pollinate itself? Don't know. But I bought 2 trees this spring for may yard and I bought some pawpaw seeds on line last winter and have about 2 dozen seedlings. I plan to plant a few of the seedlings near the patches in the woods and maybe in a few years I'll have some wild fruit up there.
Susan

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Susan

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TucsonKen

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Reply with quote  #11 
I emailed a guy in the local CRFG group, and he wrote back, "Yes I Have grown pawpaws.  I had one tree that grew quite well, but my dog dug it up after 6 months.  I did not replace it, but it did not present any problems." So, it looks like my figs will have a another "roommate" if I can decide on a variety and find a good source! Hopefully Pawpaw and Jujube varieties will both be less prone than figs to being mislabeled by the nurseries.
 
John--what variety of Jujube are you growing?

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Ken
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Reply with quote  #12 
It's been a few years since I made it out, but the Ohio Pawpaw Festival is a lot of fun. You can taste a bunch of different cultivars and wild fruits, and there's a local brewer who makes pawpaw beer every year. I bought a few seedlings in the mid-2000s and planted them in 75% or so shade at my parents' house. The two oldest (maybe five years old) are about 15 feet tall and the three younger ones (three or four years old) are about 8 feet tall. No fruit yet, but one tree had a few flowers this year. They really weren't that stinky. I'd say they have more of an intense bread dough smell. I could only smell it when I was up close. But I have heard that some commercial and college growers tie turkey necks to the trees to attract carrion flies. One piece of advice for planting/transplanting: choose a spot carefully. Pawpaws have a very long taproot that breaks easily, and the trees are very sensitive to transplanting. Still, they're beautiful trees and the fruit tastes fantastic.

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Reply with quote  #13 
Very well my dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

PawPaw it will be! To the nursery!

All Jokes aside, I had debated in whether or not to purchase one or two because of the smell. I guess I should be my own judge. Won't hurt anything to try right?

I will keep you posted.
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Reply with quote  #14 
Matt,

The Carrion Fly.
Is that the same fly the Birch tree attracts?

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Reply with quote  #15 

Rafed,

Most Pawpaw are not self-fertile, so you should plan on 2 trees. There a only a few that are self-fertile. The Sunflower cultivar that Bass is one of the self-fertile ones, but it is said to produce better with another cultivar planted as well. I have 4 cultivars that are young and not fruiting yet, but have access to some wild trees as well that fruit and the question about if a patch may not produce becuase they have all developed from same root system and are all one clone is very possible. If someone is intrested in some seeds to start I probably can still find a few. My wild trees don't produce very big fruit and are seedy, and I have been told Pawpaw come closer to coming true than many fruits from seed so unless you plan to graft them over. I would start with seed from a selected improved cultivar.

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Reply with quote  #16 

I wonder if multiple varieties could be grafted to one tree like Bass' jujubes. It would be nice for someone with limited space.


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Susan

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Bass

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Reply with quote  #17 
You can certainly graft different varieties just like any other tree. I know a guy who has 40 different ones into one tree. 
They easily grow from seeds, and start producing within 5 years. Rafed if you want some let me know.

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Reply with quote  #18 
Not for just the East,
I have seen pawpaws fruiting here too, up and down the West Coast, from the San Juan Islands on the Canadian border, to Santa Barbara and Fullerton in Southern California.

Jon, you must try to grow a couple in San Diego!

Bass, although I have not tasted the 40(!) varieties you mention from the Midwest/East, the flavor is excellent here in California. I am active in the California Rare Fruit Growers, lived in Hawai'i for 15 years and traveled quite a bit from Mexico to Central America, and have tasted many fruits-

Pawpaw is one of my favorite fruits- ever!

Tell me- do the various named cultivars vary substantially?
Flavor, size, ripening dates, drought hardiness, cold hardiness, subtropical adaptation, etc. ????


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Bass

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Reply with quote  #19 
John, Flavor certainly vary with different cultivars, for example Sunflower has more creamy taste and it's an orange flesh. The "mango" variety is milder and and white flesh, resembling the cherimoya a little. 
Among the best varieties are those from Peterson pawpaw. He has selected 3-5 varieties that are rated the best in taste. It is very hard to obtain these varieties, you will need to order them at least a year ahead.
As far as subtropical adaptation, the wild pawpaw that grows in the Panhandle of Florida would be the most adaptable. Not sure if there's any selected varieties from that region. 

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Reply with quote  #20 

Hey Bass,  just to let you know, we have native pawpaw all the way down in South Louisiana.  You can find them along the Mississippi river.  LSU also does alot of work with pawpaw.

aytowler

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Reply with quote  #21 
hey, i live and philly and am looking for a place to go wild paw paw picking - any suggestions??
thanks!
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Reply with quote  #22 
Hey Jeff, how you been. A long time since I've seen you post anything. I thought maybe you gave up on figs. I hear you're into feathers now. How is that going. The trees I got from you are doing great.
"gene"


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Bass

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Reply with quote  #23 
I went picking pawpaws this last weekend, My tree is loaded with pawpaw this year...  My first pawpaw of the year with from a variety I have called Taytoo. Here's a photo, this one tasted as good as a tree ripened mango...
Aytowler, search for Holtwood natural park south of Lancaster, there's a pawpaw trail there. 

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jpeg Taytoo_pawpaw.JPG (994.15 KB, 85 views)


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The_celt

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Reply with quote  #24 
Bass my question is when they are young and inground do you wrap them or do they start out cold hardy enough?
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Reply with quote  #25 
I have some PawPaw trees that were new seedlings last year. I protected them w/ a short piece of Tree Tube, and they came through the winter just fine in z5/z6.
Bass

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Reply with quote  #26 
They're cold hardy, in nature they're an understory tree, where it is protected from hot sun when small. It's beneficial to protect the young seedlings from sun when small, If they're left in a pot outside add some mulch, they'll even survive through winter in a pot.
I hope to see the day that pawpaw makes it to grocery stores, at this time the varieties we have don't have much of shelf life. Stone fruits never made it to the grocery stores until the early 1900's when new varieties with long shelf life were developed.

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Reply with quote  #27 

I had the priveledge of tasting one of Bass's Pawpaws in a recent visit with Bass. I was quite impressed, very tasty. And the fruits on his tree were quite large. Gotta make room for Pawpaw trees! 

TucsonKen

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Reply with quote  #28 
For those of you who have grown paw paws from seed, did you have to scarify the seed to get it to germinate? A forum member sent me some seeds last year, and after keeping them in the fridge through the winter, I planted them in compost-rich soil under a couple of persimmon trees, in several locations where they would get regular water from the drip system. The soil is constantly moist, but not wet. I was really hoping to see how they would do here, but not one of the seeds germinated. Now I'm curious to know what I did wrong--any ideas?
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Reply with quote  #29 
Hello,
    My experience with pawpaw seedlings is as follows -   They do need a period of cold stratification.    I have never scarified the seeds.    In my zone 5, just planting them in the fall is all that is needed.    There is a risk in the refrigerator that a fungus can get into the seed and damage it.   Also, seeds need to be fairly fresh.   If they dry out too much, they might lose their viability.

    Pawpaw seeds appear to be slow to germinate and I generally do not notice them till fall or the following spring.  They are very nondescript and can be mistaken for weeds (Friends and I have almost weeded them out, especially in the dormant stage!)   In the dormant stage the tips of the branches have a very distinctive "paintbrush" tip and can be distinguished from other plants that way. The seedlings at this stage might only be one to three inches tall.    

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Reply with quote  #30 

Try seeds in a pot to avoid weeding. Yes they must be stratified, but not scarified. I also heard that they must be kept moist and not allowed to dry out, so that might be the issue for you.

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Reply with quote  #31 
They were good and fresh--a forum member collected them fresh and sent them in a Ziploc filled with damp medium. I kept them in the fridge all winter till planting them in the ground on March 31. I still have 5 seeds in the fridge as backups, but they may no longer be viable because they seem lighter in weight now--I just put them in a glass of water and they all floated. Anyway, I'll still try germinating them in a baggie to see what happens, and if I see any roots I'll put them in pots and keep my fingers crossed.
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Ken
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Reply with quote  #32 

Bass if you saved any of the taytoo seeds I would like to purchase a few from you as well as  some scion of that cultivar when the proper time comes.  I have 2 nice growing trees that are looking to be grafted.


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Reply with quote  #33 
They take a long time to germinate, and grow a taproot before any leaves emerge. I put a bunch of seeds in a container and tip it out once a week to find the ones that are germinating. I tried containers and left them outside over winter on my first try and they all died; the freeze thaw cycle got them I think. I had better luck planting them direct and using tree tubes to provide shade for them. Larger diameter tree tubes are best because of the size of the leaves.

There are also some pawpaws in Alapocas Run and Brandywine Parks in Wilmington, they are not big producers at all because they are growing as an understory. 

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Reply with quote  #34 
Bass,

Did you take the Turkey Hill trail at the park you visited for pawpaws?  If so, did you start at the northern entrance?  I'd like to head there this week/weekend if the pawpaws are turning ripe.  Looks like it's less than 60 miles from here.  It boasts of being the largest patch north of the 39th latitude.

Tim

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Reply with quote  #35 

I have had great luck starting pawpaw seeds after being kept in the refridg in a little moist seed starter mix - 100% germinate. The only problems that I have had with seedlings have been mice going after the seed as it begins to push up through the soil. I did lose some larger grafted trees that I kept in pots outside last winter but I think that they stayed to wet  and rotted.


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Susan

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Reply with quote  #36 

I have had great luck starting pawpaw seeds after being kept in the refridg in a little moist seed starter mix - 100% germinate. The only problems that I have had with seedlings have been mice going after the seed as it begins to push up through the soil. I did lose some larger grafted trees that I kept in pots outside last winter but I think that they stayed to wet  and rotted.


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Susan

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TucsonKen

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Reply with quote  #37 
It's certainly possible that mice may have eaten any brand-new shoots pushing up out of the ground. I'll go check and see if any unsprouted seeds are still in the spots where I planted them.
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Ken
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Reply with quote  #38 
I dug up three seeds, one of which was just a piece of shell. They may have all germinated at some point, but evidently rotted before getting above ground. Maybe they got too wet?

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Ken
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Reply with quote  #39 

Ken,

Sorry The seeds did not make it. Yes the seeds would have been fresh and at least a start on stratification, not scarified. I don't remember when I sent them, they were probably gathered a little later in the year then present last year. If you did not give them additional cold stratification after I sent them that might have been the issue I usually leave them in slightly moist peat/sand until around Feb and they no take forever to germinate. I don't recall when they were sent. At least one patch I visit had no fruit this year, I have not have made to the other patch yet, It's about 1 1/2 hour away and I may be to late regardless.  

 

 I someone wants a year jump some of the State Forestry depts. do have Papaws in their seedling programs if someone was interested in a quantity of non-grafted seedlings, and at least some of them are made available to out of state. They are small conservation grade seedlings, but they are cheap. In the Kentucky Forestry offering it lists 10 seedlings for $24 dollars shipped, or I think $50-$60  for a 100 seedlings. I would get them from Kentucky as their seedlings are from the pawpaw orchards at Kentucky State University who is probably the leading force in the development of new pawpaw cultivars, They also just hosted the Third International Pawpaw Conference I think this past weekend. There is as well is a Yahoo discussion group for Papaws I have linked below as well.

 

http://www.pawpaw.kysu.edu/PawpawSeedlings.htm

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pawpaw_Discussion/

 

 



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TucsonKen

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Reply with quote  #40 
Strudeldog--thanks for the links, both look useful and interesting. It would really be nice to find out for certain whether pawpaws can succeed in Tucson, and the seedling route may well be the best way to find out!
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Ken
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Reply with quote  #41 
I have ordered 100 pawpaw seedlings for fall and will not need that many if someone wants a few for grafting let me know.
They are from Superior trees.
I am also interested in scion from named varieties

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strudeldog

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Reply with quote  #42 
Here is the main Kentucky state link. They are the  USDA National Clonal Germplasm Repository or gene bank, for Asimina species (pawpaw), so they are kind of like UC Davis for figs, but I don't believe you can request Scion wood, but there is a lot of cultural info on the site
http://www.pawpaw.kysu.edu/

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Reply with quote  #43 
I have been saving seeds from the best cultivars I've tasted this summer. They're all mixed together. To save the seeds, make sure to wash them and clean them well, they place in a ziplock with a little moist paper towel. Keep it in a cold storage for at least 2-3 months. Plant it out in April or May, it may take over a month to show any growth. They don't transplant well, so it's best to plant several seeds in a 3 gallon pot, then in the following year transplant them to a bigger pot or to the ground. They can be transplanted easily from the pot since all the root system is kept in tact. 
I won't waste any money on barerooted pawpaw, They rarely survive being bare rooted. You may need all 100 seedlings, you'll be lucky if you get 10 of these to grow.



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Reply with quote  #44 
I had success by planting seeds directly in the ground after removing them from the fruit last fall. I planted them outside my front door, where I thought I would remember them. Eventually--probably mid-summer, a group of little trees came up. Not at all difficult if you plant them and forget them!

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Reply with quote  #45 
Do Paw paws have to ripen on the tree like figs or can you pick them 
and then they ripen later, like a tomato ?  

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Reply with quote  #46 
They can be picked when they're almost ripe, but if picked when premature they will turn black and never ripen properly. I like to let them ripen on their own and drop.
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Reply with quote  #47 
And they are fabulous if you put them in the freezer and then scoop the interior out like frozen custard....outstanding.  

In the retail arena, there is an increasing demand for pawpaw fruit, chefs are starting to incorporate the fruit into their meals more and more.   I know in KY there are some farmers who are converting parts of grain fields to pawpaw orchards, some are even getting agricultural grants to accomplish this.  The intent will be to contract their fruit with restaurants, etc.

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Reply with quote  #48 
Sara, you find any wild in your area.  I went looking in the car yesterday and day before, and didn't see a one.  Might need to get out of the car and do some walking.  There is a big park near work, that I've heard has them.

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Reply with quote  #49 

i might be interested in buying some seeds if anyone is selling them send me a pm or email


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Reply with quote  #50 
I'll have seeds ready in another month.
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