Register  |   | 
 
Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > Plant tissue culture
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 2      1   2   Next
garden_whisperer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,613
Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Again sorry its a link to another forum i posted on. i have had alot of success with microproagation but have never been able to culture figs. if anybody know how please share. and pics would be nice.

dave

link
http://www.gardeningclub.com/community/forums/aft/40643
__________________
Dave Zone 6b Illinois

"Be the change you wish to see in the world"
rcantor

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 5,724
Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Springerlink has a lot of articles for free for the holiday season.  There are a few on micropropagation of figs.  Download the PDFs.  They'll be back to $30 each soon. Check and see if your nearest university library has Protocols for Micropropagation of Woody Trees and Fruits  2007.  Chapter 37 is on figs (PP 409-416)
__________________
Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
garden_whisperer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,613
Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Thanks Bob, i will deffenatly get right on that. there is so much stuff out the its hard to find exactly what your looking for sifting through thousands of pages. If the library has it and i like i might just have to buy a copy. thanx again.

Dave
__________________
Dave Zone 6b Illinois

"Be the change you wish to see in the world"
rcantor

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 5,724
Posted Reply with quote  #4 
The U should give you guest access to print those 8 pages.  The book on CD is over $200.  On springerlink just search for micropropagation ficus carica.
__________________
Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
JackHNVA

Registered:
Posts: 519
Posted Reply with quote  #5 
"The reference manual for woody plant propagation," Dirr and Heuser, has a chapter on tissue culturing.  It offered at the AHS and I think Amazon,  far cheaper than the expensive college reference book and the basics at the right level for small use use or a try. I have done it three times, twice with success. My thoughts to date is it is worth the mess and time for a special or rare one where most stock I have access to is contaminated with FMV.

Happy Thanksgiving folks, and safe travels
__________________
Zone 7
Celeste, White Marseilles, Beer's Black, Green Greek, White Italy one unknown, Chicago hardy, White Naples, Portuguese Black, Italian Honey.Black Bethleham, Sal's C, Several unknowns.

Looking for dark sweet types from Azores and southern Spain (figs, not women), 2014 goal is to acquire Kathleen Black
rcantor

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 5,724
Posted Reply with quote  #6 
That's a great book but different trees need different protocols   The pages referenced give specific protocols that work for our fig trees.  They are complementary, though.  The Reference Manual has great info on setting up a tissue culture lab which is assumed as already done by Protocols.
__________________
Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
JackHNVA

Registered:
Posts: 519
Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Yes, I have both books, however, for those wishing to read the basics, was trying to state other options are there for those not wishing to spend $200.
__________________
Zone 7
Celeste, White Marseilles, Beer's Black, Green Greek, White Italy one unknown, Chicago hardy, White Naples, Portuguese Black, Italian Honey.Black Bethleham, Sal's C, Several unknowns.

Looking for dark sweet types from Azores and southern Spain (figs, not women), 2014 goal is to acquire Kathleen Black
garden_whisperer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,613
Posted Reply with quote  #8 
I have cultured blackberries and other bramble fruits, and bananas fairly well but never had luck with figs as of yet. any info in regards that can get me to that point would make me happier than beaver in a saw mill.
__________________
Dave Zone 6b Illinois

"Be the change you wish to see in the world"
rcantor

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 5,724
Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Sorry if I wasn't Clear.  No one interested in only figs should buy a $200 CD that only has 8 pages on figs.  Your friendly neighborhood tax supported university should be able to help you print the 8 pages of interest for about $1. 

The Reference Manual has great info on grafting and other propagation techniques as well as an introduction to setting up a lab and prepping the specimen.  A cheaper book, coming out in 4th edition this Spring is Plants from Test Tubes: An Introduction to Micropropagation.  It's only about setting up a lab and has some sample protocols.  No info on grafting or other types of propagation.

Even cheaper is to watch some of the videos on youtube    :)

Dave, go here  The first 2 articles are on fig micropropagation.  click on d/l PDF and they'll appear on your screen.  You can save them to your hard drive.  After this holiday promotion is over it will cost a lot of $$ to do that so do it soon.  For the book, take the info I gave you to your nearest tax supported university and they'll help you get the pages you need.
__________________
Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
garden_whisperer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,613
Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Thank you got it downloaded. i want to cultur various things and have done a few. just havent had any luck with figs
__________________
Dave Zone 6b Illinois

"Be the change you wish to see in the world"
MichaelTucson

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,216
Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Dave (or anyone else who got this downloaded),
Can you send me a pdf of chapter 37 of Protocols (pp 409 - 416)?  I just went to download it... they've taken away the free access already (just let you read the first 2 pages, but pay to see more).  Stupid me to have waited to download.  I did download a couple of other articles (e.g. the Fraguas et al, 2004 paper).

Mike
__________________
Pauca sed matura.
HarveyC

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,294
Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Dave, are you a member of the HTC group?  Folks are usually very helpful there although I see someone else posted the same question over there in October and didn't get a reply.  There are some professionals and very experienced hobbyists in the group that have come to help in the past.  One member heads up the lab for a farming company with about 72,000 acres of tree crops here in California.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hometissueculture/message/30615

Maybe you could bump this post.  Good luck.
__________________

Harvey - Correia Farms
Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

http://www.figaholics.com
https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics
garden_whisperer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,613
Posted Reply with quote  #13 
no harvey, but it looks like a group i should get in with. i am trying to get my ducks lined up and go back to school. see about taking my generals online to at least get them out of the way.
__________________
Dave Zone 6b Illinois

"Be the change you wish to see in the world"
gorgi

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,864
Posted Reply with quote  #14 
I recently bought a Blue Ischia fig from Hirtsgardens.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290782329328?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

It is a puny/small (but healthy) 4" plant with a 1/8" stem and 1" leaves  ... and sooo ...  it most likely was reproduced from tissue culture?

Also, it may be the (infamous/good) Ischia Black, which any twig-rooting notoriously maintains its severe FMV infection.

I'll wait/experiment/see for myself ... so far, it seems to be FMV free ...
__________________
George, NJ_z7a.
rcantor

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 5,724
Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Yeah, but what we really want to see is if it's a Black Ischia or another name for brown turkey.  :)

Mike, the book pages were never available for free online.  You have to get them from your local University.  It should be very inexpensive there.

And the guy who got no answer in Oct?  That was me  :)
__________________
Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
JackHNVA

Registered:
Posts: 519
Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Actually they are available online:

http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/agrobacterium/superkuh.com/library/Biology/Agrobacterium/Protocols%20for%20Micropropagation%20of%20Woody%20Trees%20and%20Fruits_%20S%20Mohan%20Jain_%20H%20Haggman_%202007.pdf

Large file so make sure you have a high speed connection
__________________
Zone 7
Celeste, White Marseilles, Beer's Black, Green Greek, White Italy one unknown, Chicago hardy, White Naples, Portuguese Black, Italian Honey.Black Bethleham, Sal's C, Several unknowns.

Looking for dark sweet types from Azores and southern Spain (figs, not women), 2014 goal is to acquire Kathleen Black
JackHNVA

Registered:
Posts: 519
Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Clearly the blog site of a biological student or researcher:  beware of copyright laws before you attept to distribute or sell. for educational download use only.

http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/agrobacterium/superkuh.com/library/Biology/Agrobacterium/
__________________
Zone 7
Celeste, White Marseilles, Beer's Black, Green Greek, White Italy one unknown, Chicago hardy, White Naples, Portuguese Black, Italian Honey.Black Bethleham, Sal's C, Several unknowns.

Looking for dark sweet types from Azores and southern Spain (figs, not women), 2014 goal is to acquire Kathleen Black
MichaelTucson

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,216
Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Thanks for the reference links.  I've begun reading Protocols... been interested in this topic (not sure if I'll try anything with it yet, but interested).  

Mike
__________________
Pauca sed matura.
HarveyC

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,294
Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Duarte Nursery does tissue culture of many different trees and vines and I toured their facilities a few years ago.  I met the Director of Research that heads up the TC lab, Javier Castillon.  You might try emailing him to see if he might help. first name and then @duartenursery.com according to his business card.  I'm curious what varieties they're interested in working on.
__________________

Harvey - Correia Farms
Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

http://www.figaholics.com
https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics
rcantor

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 5,724
Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Strong work, Jack!
__________________
Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
tmc2009

Registered:
Posts: 854
Posted Reply with quote  #21 
After reading a post about this fig I broke down and purchased one too out of curiosity.  I thought it looked like an elm tree seedling when it arrived.  Can anyone explain why a tissue culture grows differently than a cutting initially?  Does a Blue Ischia variety exist?  I wonder where this name came from?  I wonder if they would be interested in trying to produce FMV free Ischia Black varieties if tissue culture techniques can eliminate it?
__________________
Tom
Massachusetts Zone 6b
tmc2009

Registered:
Posts: 854
Posted Reply with quote  #22 
That is great progress.  Do yo have the mini greenhouse inside?  I haven't given mine any special attention yet but having seen your progress I think I'll put some more effort into getting it to grow inside.  I thought mine looked like an elm tree seedling out of the box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCfigFanatic
I bought the same plant from the same source.
The first picture was on 10/5/12 when I got it.
The second picture was from today. I pulled it from my mini greenhouse
with 14 hours of light daily.
Not trying to help seller of this fig, it looks nothing like
they advertise by their picture.

class="bbc_img">




class="bbc_img">

It does have leaf rust....

Doug
__________________
Tom
Massachusetts Zone 6b
MichaelTucson

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,216
Posted Reply with quote  #23 
I have to ask:  
  • Why (and how) can tissue culture propagation techniques result in a tree that is free of FMV, if the initial source of the tissue sample is a tree with FMV?
  • Wouldn't the tissue culture propagate the FMV viruses, just as it propagates the tree itself?  
  • Or is there something in the process that kills the viruses but doesn't kill the tree tissue?  
  • Or are you assuming that it's possible to to get a small sample of virus-free tissue from an FMV-infected tree? 
I've seen other discussions on this, with various people taking opposing sides of the answer.  But I've not seen anybody answer this definitively, dispassionately, convincingly, and in a way that I can understand.  I don't know the science of tissue culture / micropropagation well enough to answer.  So, a few of you guys seem to understand tissue culture pretty well... can any of you explain the answer to these questions?

Mike   central NY state, zone 5
__________________
Pauca sed matura.
tmc2009

Registered:
Posts: 854
Posted Reply with quote  #24 
I don't know anything about these tissue culture techniques either but I seem to recall a discussion that new fast growing growth might not yet have the FMV in the cells.  I think it takes something like an electron microscope to see a virus.  A FMV free tree might stay free of the virus longer in the North East but would have a good chance of getting infected again in warmer regions.  Does UC Davis conduct research on FMV?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelTucson
I have to ask:  
  • Why (and how) can tissue culture propagation techniques result in a tree that is free of FMV, if the initial source of the tissue sample is a tree with FMV?
  • Wouldn't the tissue culture propagate the FMV viruses, just as it propagates the tree itself?  
  • Or is there something in the process that kills the viruses but doesn't kill the tree tissue?  
  • Or are you assuming that it's possible to to get a small sample of virus-free tissue from an FMV-infected tree? 
I've seen other discussions on this, with various people taking opposing sides of the answer.  But I've not seen anybody answer this dispassionately.  I don't know the science of tissue culture / micropropagation well enough to answer.  So, a few of you guys seem to understand tissue culture pretty well... can any of you explain the answer to these questions?

Mike   central NY state, zone 5
__________________
Tom
Massachusetts Zone 6b
HarveyC

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,294
Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Citrus are supposedly cleaned up of viruses by culturing the new shoots which are not yet infected.  Tissue culture methods also will sometimes treat cultures with compounds to kill viruses, I believe, though I don't know if this is always successful.

The Sierra and Sequoia varieties which I bought (Jon bought some of these from me and resold them) were bought from a nursery in Madeira, CA (nurseryman had died and wife was liquidating) that had been propagated by TC, but I don't know where or how. I only spoke with the wife briefly as life was very chaotic for her with everything that she was having to deal with.
__________________

Harvey - Correia Farms
Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

http://www.figaholics.com
https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics
garden_whisperer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,613
Posted Reply with quote  #26 
tissue culture is soposed to produce plantlets free of virus or other problems. unlock hidden genetics, or even play around with genetics. it doesnt seem like it would be very hard to find the cause of fmv ie cells attacked, certain protines, etc and possibly isolate it thus creating a strain that is immune. however i donot have the knowladge of such things. right now i do tc as a hobbie but am looking on going to school for advance horticulter and genetics with a minor in biz managment sometime next year. if i get in the situation to where i can figure it out i will share what i have learned with every one along with cuttings :)

I like the set up doug, though o have the lights and stuff set up i dont think i will get the wife onboard with the greenhouse in the house.
__________________
Dave Zone 6b Illinois

"Be the change you wish to see in the world"
MichaelTucson

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,216
Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey
Citrus are supposedly cleaned up of viruses by culturing the new shoots which are not yet infected.  Tissue culture methods also will sometimes treat cultures with compounds to kill viruses, I believe, though I don't know if this is always successful.

So do you know if new fig shoots are free of virus?  I had never heard this... do you know it to be true?  Or, do you know of tissue culture propagation of figs that has successfully resulted in a non-FMV-infected explant?  (after starting with an infected plant I mean).  As for treating with compounds to kill viruses, I'm not aware of any compounds that will kill the four (or more) viruses that cause FMV without also killing their host (fig tree) cells.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
tissue culture is soposed to produce plantlets free of virus or other problems. unlock hidden genetics, or even play around with genetics. it doesnt seem like it would be very hard to find the cause of fmv ie cells attacked, certain protines, etc and possibly isolate it thus creating a strain that is immune.

Can you provide an example of someone who has successfully found the molecular markers and/or molecular vectors and then gone on to isolate uninfected ficus carica cells?  I'm not aware of any... (doesn't mean it hasn't been done, but I haven't heard of it yet... seems like that would be pretty big news).

I have heard other people indicate that using TC propagation starting with a source from an infected tree has resulted in infected explant clonal offspring.  That seems to make sense to me, unless someone can successfully isolate the non-infected cells of the source tree.  (Incidentally, I also bought a couple of fig trees from Hirt's, though not via the ebay outlet, rather their Amazon outlet and their direct web site... though I cannot confirm that they used TC to propagate these plants, both of them had FMV infections by the time they reached me).  

So I go back to my questions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
I have to ask:  
  • Why (and how) can tissue culture propagation techniques result in a tree that is free of FMV, if the initial source of the tissue sample is a tree with FMV?
  • Wouldn't the tissue culture propagate the FMV viruses, just as it propagates the tree itself?  
  • Or is there something in the process that kills the viruses but doesn't kill the tree tissue?  
  • Or are you assuming that it's possible to to get a small sample of virus-free tissue from an FMV-infected tree? 
I've seen other discussions on this, with various people taking opposing sides of the answer.  But I've not seen anybody answer this definitively, dispassionately, convincingly, and in a way that I can understand.  I don't know the science of tissue culture / micropropagation well enough to answer.  So, a few of you guys seem to understand tissue culture pretty well... can any of you explain the answer to these questions?


Does any of you guys out there know the truth of this?  

Mike   central NY state, zone 5
__________________
Pauca sed matura.
rcantor

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 5,724
Posted Reply with quote  #28 
There was a study using shoot tips in hopes that they were not yet infected with FMV as explained above.  Then they used some warming time to try to weaken any virus that might have been around.  They claimed success in eliminating FMV.
__________________
Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
dfoster25

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 723
Posted Reply with quote  #29 
The tissue culture process in itself does NOT produce a FMV free plant.   There are two processes being confused here.  Or maybe not confused, but not understood to be both needed to get the desired cleaned up plant.   Thermotherapy and Micropropagation.

Thermotherapy is the process in which the plant is grown under warm conditions.  Most of the time about 100 degree days and 95 degree nights for a constant 3-4 weeks.   The viruses under this condition cannot migrate or make it to the meristem tip.   The tip is harvested and then the tip(s) are grown in vitro or micropropagated.  They can be brought up through that process to make another clone of the the mother plant.  I'm simplifying here....   often these plants need to be grown out and tested and taken through that process multiply times and tested using complex mean to make sure they are clean before going ahead with Tissue culture on a larger scale.  This in the case of a fig could take several months if not years.

Micropropagation/Tissue culture is just the process of taking smaller parts of the plants, not always the meristem, and multiplying them in a sterile culture.   If the starting material isn't cleaned up via Thermotherapy and verified to be clean beforehand using various testing, you will not have clean plants by micropropagation alone.

Many e-bay sellers claim that their plants are reproduced by tissue culture (micropropagated).  This may be true, but watch out for anyone saying that reproducing them by tissue culture has made them guaranteed to be clean.   It's very unlikely.  The only people that would have the time, patience, money to do all this work for any economical good (an economical good for figs has never been proven has it?)would maybe be a nursery that is supplying clean plants to a plantation somewhere and they have extra plants.....  but that's very unlikely.
__________________
Zone 6, SE MICHIGAN
-14F 1-7-14
-23F 2-?-15
   6F 1-18-16
garden_whisperer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,613
Posted Reply with quote  #30 
I am not saying cleanning a fig of fmv has or hasnt been done but simply the means is there to do it with research and someone smarter than myself. i am going to be going back to school to try and get the smarts and education to take my hobby a little further. in theroy i dont see why it would not be possible to get a fmv resistant plant. the posibility is there. and i want to explore it. it may take years and i promis nothing other than i myself am willing to try.
__________________
Dave Zone 6b Illinois

"Be the change you wish to see in the world"
rcantor

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 5,724
Posted Reply with quote  #31 

ELIMINATION OF FIG MOSAIC FROM FIG SHOOT-TIP CULTURES BY THERMOTHERAPY

ISHS Acta Horticulturae 480: I International Symposium on Fig

Authors:  R. Gella, M. Lopez Corrales, F. Toribio, J.A. Marin
Keywords:  Ficus carica L, shoot tip, mosaic virus, thermotherapy
Abstract:
Apical buds (0.5–0.7 cm) of fig tree (Ficus carica L.) of cvs. "Urdana", "Napolitana" "Tiberio" and "Villalba" with evident mosaic symptoms were cultured in MP solid medium (Pontikis and Melas, 1986) and then subjected to an alternating, high temperature regime with 16 h light (5.000 lux) at 37°C followed by 8 h dark at 34°C. These in vitro techniques resulted in fig plants with no external symptoms of fig-mosaic disease after a year of pot cultivation in the greenhouse. Since F. carica is tolerant to high temperature treatments, the in vitro thermotherapy with alternating temperature is an appropriate method to eliminate the fig mosaic. This method allows production of a large number of treated shoot tips with high survival and regeneration rates. Indexing showed an absence of fig mosaic disease in all the plants obtained by this treatment.
__________________
Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
dfoster25

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 723
Posted Reply with quote  #32 
To answer your question. Yes it's possible. Just not by using TC as the sole means of doing so.
__________________
Zone 6, SE MICHIGAN
-14F 1-7-14
-23F 2-?-15
   6F 1-18-16
bullet08

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 6,920
Posted Reply with quote  #33 
virus by definition is RNA/DNA in a shell/capsule. once it penetrates into a cell, it will in corporate into the DNA of the host sell to produce whatever protein it was program to produce. if the cell is infected, it will have that RNA/DNA in it. when cell division occurs, the resulting cells will have the same sequence of the RNA/DNA that infected parent cell had.

now.. if you think about it.. new plant generated by infected cell will result in bunch of infected cells making up the plant.

thermotherapy is used to suppress the activity of the virus, and hopefully stop the protein production or denature the viral RNA/DNA/protein. it might work, it might not work. some virus are tougher to treat than others.
__________________
Pete
Durham, NC
Zone 7b

"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
JackHNVA

Registered:
Posts: 519
Posted Reply with quote  #34 
Here is a paper that maybe of interest

 
Attached Files
pdf New_viruses_found_in_fig_exhibiting_mosaic_symptoms.pdf (97.90 KB, 25 views)


__________________
Zone 7
Celeste, White Marseilles, Beer's Black, Green Greek, White Italy one unknown, Chicago hardy, White Naples, Portuguese Black, Italian Honey.Black Bethleham, Sal's C, Several unknowns.

Looking for dark sweet types from Azores and southern Spain (figs, not women), 2014 goal is to acquire Kathleen Black

JackHNVA

Registered:
Posts: 519
Posted Reply with quote  #35 
Another paper

 
Attached Files
pdf PHYTO-12-11-0351_Laney_et_al.__2012_An_integrated_badna...fig_germplasm.pdf (790.14 KB, 23 views)


__________________
Zone 7
Celeste, White Marseilles, Beer's Black, Green Greek, White Italy one unknown, Chicago hardy, White Naples, Portuguese Black, Italian Honey.Black Bethleham, Sal's C, Several unknowns.

Looking for dark sweet types from Azores and southern Spain (figs, not women), 2014 goal is to acquire Kathleen Black

HarveyC

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,294
Posted Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelTucson
So do you know if new fig shoots are free of virus?  I had never heard this... do you know it to be true?  Or, do you know of tissue culture propagation of figs that has successfully resulted in a non-FMV-infected explant?  (after starting with an infected plant I mean).  As for treating with compounds to kill viruses, I'm not aware of any compounds that will kill the four (or more) viruses that cause FMV without also killing their host (fig tree) cells.


Michael, I wrote that I was only aware of tip culture being used in citrus, although Bob has posted information about it's use in figs subsequent to my post.  A paper on it's use in citrus can be found at http://www.fspublishers.org/ijab/past-issues/IJABVOL_9_NO_1/5.pdf

I've toured the facilities at http://fpms.ucdavis.edu/ (they handled a nursery group's sponsorship of importing chestnut cultivars) and they are very often cleaning up material in their lab.  They only gave a brief explanation during the tour and showed material in autoclave, etc. so I only know enough to be dangerous.  If someone wanted to pay enough money, they would probably be capable of cleaning up Black Madeira or whatever.  This facility is across the street (south) of the USDA GRIN offices and is separate from UCD but located on campus property.
__________________

Harvey - Correia Farms
Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

http://www.figaholics.com
https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics
HarveyC

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,294
Posted Reply with quote  #37 
I just wrote my contact at Foundation Plant Services to ask him if he had ever worked with figs or knew of anyone who had.
__________________

Harvey - Correia Farms
Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

http://www.figaholics.com
https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics
dfoster25

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 723
Posted Reply with quote  #38 
Jack:

That is some amazing research!  And only a few months old. Where did you find this? Thanks for posting. 

So my original statement is somewhat true, sure it's "possible" to clean them up with thermotherapy, but not by the average fig fanatic, however the likely hood of keeping the plant clean doesn't look very promising.

There is quite a bit in there that if read by some of the long time Fig 4 Fun Forum members here, would shatter some of their long time beliefs.  The view of some people that "all figs have the virus" is probably more likely to be true and the folks that believe their plants are clean, are probably not correct in that belief.   Even in symptom free samples, the virus is detected.

The other commonly stated belief that only Mites transmit the disease is disproved in the research.  Mealy bugs, Aphids, & mechanical transmission are all talked about as possible means of transmission.  

This topic is so talked about on this forum that I hope people take the time to read this.

Thanks again.
__________________
Zone 6, SE MICHIGAN
-14F 1-7-14
-23F 2-?-15
   6F 1-18-16
JackHNVA

Registered:
Posts: 519
Posted Reply with quote  #39 
I am a former professor so have access to many published journals in various acedemic forums.  The microbiology books referenced apparently were scanned by a researcher looking at the subject we are debating here so quite handy! Enjoy.
__________________
Zone 7
Celeste, White Marseilles, Beer's Black, Green Greek, White Italy one unknown, Chicago hardy, White Naples, Portuguese Black, Italian Honey.Black Bethleham, Sal's C, Several unknowns.

Looking for dark sweet types from Azores and southern Spain (figs, not women), 2014 goal is to acquire Kathleen Black
dfoster25

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 723
Posted Reply with quote  #40 
I had a feeling you had to have some connections. Again, thanks for sharing with all of us.
__________________
Zone 6, SE MICHIGAN
-14F 1-7-14
-23F 2-?-15
   6F 1-18-16
HarveyC

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,294
Posted Reply with quote  #41 
I wrote in post #40 that I had contacted FPS.  He replied today:
Quote:
Hi Harvey,

From what I know, it is nearly impossible to keep figs from contracting the mosaic viruses, the vectors of the virus are ubiquitous. I don’t think that serious efforts have been made to propagate figs free of virus because of that.

That being said, I do know that Duarte Nursery in Hughson is propagating figs in tissue culture, small tips cut under sterile conditions and grown initially in test tubes. I believe that work is being done just for propagation purposes, not for disease elimination.

I do have one fig variety here, I believe it is called Sierra (?), that was bred by Jim Doyle of UC, but it looks like it has fig mosaic. FPS does not work with figs other than maintaining this one variety.

 
__________________

Harvey - Correia Farms
Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

http://www.figaholics.com
https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics
rcantor

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 5,724
Posted Reply with quote  #42 
Harvey, would you ask him what protocol they use?  Thanks.
__________________
Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
HarveyC

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,294
Posted Reply with quote  #43 
He's not doing fig TC at FPS but Duarte Nursery is.  I'll send you a PM about that.
__________________

Harvey - Correia Farms
Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

http://www.figaholics.com
https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics
dkirtexas

Registered:
Posts: 1,327
Posted Reply with quote  #44 
Do not want to hijack thread but can you TC a fruit, such as a watermelon or kiwi, if so where would you take the culture from, the vine, the melon rind, the seed ?????
__________________
Thx, glad to be here

Danny K "EL CAZADOR DE HIGO"
Waskom Tx Zone 7B/8

Wish list: anything anyone wants me to have. LSU RED.  Any LSU fig.
garden_whisperer

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,613
Posted Reply with quote  #45 
you can culture seeds but if i were doing it i would start with node tissue on active growing vines, or tips.
__________________
Dave Zone 6b Illinois

"Be the change you wish to see in the world"
DWD2

Registered:
Posts: 140
Posted Reply with quote  #46 
For anyone interested, there is a great pictorial series of the steps to create a fig tree from tissue culture here:
http://www.landesbioscience.com/journals/gmcrops/09SolimanGMC1-1.pdf

A couple of words of caution relative to eliminating any of the viruses that cause fig mottling disease (FMD). The article that Bob references above about using thermotherapy to eliminate FMD was published in 1998. They did not know what virus(es) their fig was infected with nor were they able to demonstrate molecularly that they had eliminated any infecting virus(es). As has been discussed previously, there are at least 8 different viruses that can cause FMD.
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Instant-FMV-6004031
Since these are RNA viruses, there will almost certainly be a lot of variants for each type of virus.

My take on FMD "free" figs (or FMV free as many call them) is that it is very unlikely there are any around. However, by careful selection, a number of people on this forum have collected examples of many of the cultivars that are at least asymptomatic. And, I could be mistaken and they are FMD free. There is a lot to be said for the approach of seeking healthier versions of each cultivar.

I am also curious about Hirt's Gardens. Are they claiming they have generated FMD free trees? From their web site, there is no indication they have an operation capable of doing that. Thanks!

Harvey, I'd love to hear what you found out from Duarte Nursery. They are a large operation supplying commercial growers and there are not many commercial common fig growers in CA that I have heard about.

Good luck with your trees!
FIGurwhynot

Registered:
Posts: 4
Posted Reply with quote  #47 
Wow Thanks Jack for the links...

This discussion has renewed my interest in attempting to eradicate RBDV in some rare Rubus species via TC, and thermotherapy.   something of a plague in Rubus as apparently FMV is in figs.

Look at all the ones on this ARS GRIN database that are listed as infected accessions..
https://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/53581500/catalogs/rubyellow.html
__________________
John
Western Piedmont of N.C.
Zone 7a/b
HarveyC

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,294
Posted Reply with quote  #48 
I've written a few times in this thread about Duarte Nursery and thought I'd give an update.  Today I was at Wolfskill, USDA's repository (NOT UCD! LOL, USDA curator John Preece even made the point of telling guests at the mulberry/prunus tasting to "stay out of the UCD side").

Anyways...Howard was there and I chatted with him about figs and how things were shaping up this year, etc. and talk came to the effects of FMV being worse in some figs than others.  He said that Duarte Nursery had obtained material from them and indexed the material for FMV, finding as many as 7 strains in some accessions.  I asked him if they were cleaning it up and he said yes, but that it wouldn't make any difference.  I stated it would probably help the trees become established faster and he agreed and also said that in some isolated locations the benefits could be longer-lasting.
__________________

Harvey - Correia Farms
Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

http://www.figaholics.com
https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics
Figfinatic

Registered:
Posts: 761
Posted Reply with quote  #49 
Here's a link on doing tissue culture in your kitchen. I dont know if it would work on figs. It would be interesting to try it.

http://www.kitchenculturekit.com/StiffAffordablePTCforhobbyists.htm
__________________
Wish: Sbayi, passiflora incense, quadrangularis or others
BronxFigs

Registered:
Posts: 1,864
Posted Reply with quote  #50 
Florida Hill Nursery sells  tissue-cultured fig varieties including "Black Mission" , and claims that they are virus free.

I bought 7 tiny "Black Mission" trees from them, and they a 10 times the size that they were last year.  Originally, they shipped trees having  skinny little stems were no fatter that the stems that support a normal-size fig leaf.  Today, these same seven trees are about two ft. tall, healthy, and show no symptoms of FMV.  I am particularly happy that I am growing  symptom-free "Black Mission". 

I believe they are selling "Black Mission"...."Brown Turkey"...."Green-Ischia"...."Celeste"...."LSU Purple"


Just some information.





Frank
__________________
Bronx, NYC
Zone-7
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply