Certainly gives food for thought about the effectiveness of coir. I suppose like many other changes in long established products of various kinds the real decision is economic.

Hello Jason, I've found a location that sells mushroom compost in a bale form. Wondering if you would take a look see and tell me what you think. I am going to use it with adding a few other ingredients. Now this isn't for someone that only grows a couple fig trees because it comes in a 3000lb bale. I know..I know  wholly crap..thats a lot but a have a lot of figs plus a large garden and you can also put it on your lawn( in my case weeds). The place is located in Landenberg,Pa and they will ship. I would put the site here but I don't know how. The name of the company is Select Soils and they have a lot of info about there product and it sounds great. Put a call in and waiting for a call back for pricing. They also say it can be stored for 2 years.


luke

Hi Luke

Composts are great for in ground plants but i am trying to keep my mix draining fast and from what I understand composts will hold tons of moisture. I could be wrong because my compost usage is limited. My mix doesn't even use much Promix anymore 20% or less. Although it is still my goto rooting agent.

I have heard several people mention pine bark fines in discussion of soil mixes. Is fines the same size/consistency as soil conditioner or is it a mixture of different sizes? Have been unable to locate.

Anyone

I have read online that they are generally the same thing. If you have an agway near you thier pine bark mulch in the blue bags is pine bark fines.

Jason,

Now that the growing season is coming to an end, do we have any measured results for this experiment to date?

I really like pine bark fines, perlite, and promix for rooted cuttings. It is much harder to overwater and kill the youngsters plus the growth was very strong. I will comment on the older trees when they go dormant and I can look at the root mass.

What about growth rates and vigor?

Mike - The pine bark fines mentions you have noted are directed towards the goal of getting pine bark pieces that are in the optimal size range for soilless growing mixes. There is a lot of great technical information out there that you might find helpful to read through. The North Carolina State University Department of Horticulture has a lot of excellent information. Here is a link to a general review on container media that I have found helpful:

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/nursery/cultural/cultural_docs/substrates/container-soiless-media.pdf
There are a lot of publications in the scientific literature that explain a lot of the details and complexities of the different materials that are used in various soilless media. A couple of references that provide more depth are:
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/nursery/research/reference-publications/BilderbackLorscheider-double-proc-pb-compost.pdf
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/43/2/505.full.pdf+html
Please note that pine bark & fir bark are pretty similar components. Out West fir bark is much more available than pine bark.

A lot of folks on this and other forums want an easy formula for a media in which to grow their fig trees or other plants. There are certainly a number of recipes out there. The good news is you do not have to exactly replicate the components and mix to get good growth. I chose to understand the underlying principles that give you a good soilless growth media before picking my components. There are simple and not-so-simple tests you can perform on your media prior to putting your plant in it that allow you to catch problems. There is a widely accepted set of standards for soilless media that help insurance success. Components vary a LOT. Peat moss varies by source. Bark products vary not just by size but also by source and even the time of the year the pb was harvested. In general, my understanding from my reading of the horticultural literature is that the size and age of the pine bark are the two largest determinants of how it will function in your mix. Both of which are addressed in the first link above.

I had largely forgotten about this string after I got distracted by a family emergency and work last May. It seems a lot was added after I quit looking that might benefit from response. Odd that you would pick this string to ask your question.

Good luck with your trees!

@DWD2 thanks for your response and links. I will certainly read up on them.
Where are you located?

@Jason V thanks to you also. If soil conditioner (which is ground up composted pine bark in my bag) is the same as pine bark fines that is exactly what I just used to up pot all my figs. I was really looking for a definition of pine bark fines as far as size of particles.

newnandawg - Northern California on the peninsula south of San Francisco.

Hortstu - Certainly a drip irrigation system would make life easier if you are growing more than a few trees. Those 2 mixes, when used correctly, will certainly work well. There are big, commercial operations that grow fruits & vegetables in straight perlite. Pure perlite requires a fair bit of infrastructure, but it can be done & done well. So, you can make a lot of things work well with enough effort. As much as everyone is looking for a perfect media recipe, I do not believe one exists. After a LOT of research and a modest trial comparison to the 5-1-1 mix and a couple of others, I chose a different mix. As is pointed out in the quote above, both those mixes require more frequent watering than I care to do. A drip irrigation system certainly makes life somewhat easier. The danger of putting a drip system on a timer is timer failures. To be clear, I use a drip system for my plants. I have never tried a timer. I talked to a bunch of people who have used them and every single one of them said not to use a timer. That advice is always followed by their personal "timer failed" horrible, disaster story. That said, I am betting someone out there has a timer that has gone 10 years without a hitch. The point is that the type of automated system most folks on this forum might afford is very likely to have a very limited life and fail right when you are depending on it most. The subject of water movement & utilization in potting medias is actually pretty complex technically. In my opinion, the best, current scientific text on growing in soilless media is this text:
http://www.amazon.com/Soilless-Culture-Practice-Michael-Raviv/dp/0444529756/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1350623483&sr=1-2&keywords=soilless+media
Be forewarned that this book is HIGHLY technical. Lots of math. Probably a third of it is devoted to water. Happily, there are mix components you can try out that retain water better than the mixes you mention and have the physical attributes of a good soilless media. If your media has adequate air space, total porosity, container capacity, available water, unavailable water, bulk density, CEC and pH, you will have healthy plants given proper nutrition and water. I'd spend my money on a good pH/Electrical Conductivity meter before a timer, drip irrigation system.

Good luck with your trees!

DWD2 thanks for the info and links. I had a sister that lived in San Jose and spent a lot of time out there.

This is a great thread in spite of the bad side!  I'm not sure why the disagreement deteriorated to the unnecessary.  This is a small pond without the need for a "big frog", I would urge all to avoid this type of discussion (the unnecessary) in the future, it can only cause harm.

If you feel the need to get on a stump, start a blog!

Danny, Not quite sure what your saying.



luke

The information was great one of the best threads, even with the dissenting opinions, which is all part of discussions.  It just seemed to get too tense.  I just think the discussion took a bad turn without reason.

Hortstu - The first thing I concentrate on is getting the pH of my growing media in the optimum pH range. There are not a lot of publications out there with good science examining fig nutrition and pH. The work on pH that I can find was done in the 1950s. That said, all three of these publications put the optimal pH range as 6.0 to 6.5. 
http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1145/ANR-1145.pdf
http://johnstonnc.com/mainpage.cfm?category_level_id=299&content_id=930
http://www.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonlyres/796F5E13-A2A9-4C61-B3AD-721E9505087A/49460/HorticultureHintsFall2008HIGHRES.pdf
Since these are all from major agricultural university cooperative extensions, I choose to follow their advice. Fortunately, there seems to be agreement from these and other university sources that figs will tolerate a fairly wide range of pH. What they typically say is pH 5.0 to 8.0. But the optimum is pH 6.0 to 6.5. As I understand your question about water, you are saying you are using pH & ppm to calculate the alkalinity of your water and then doing an adjustment to get it in the optimum pH 6.0 to 6.5 range. The one problem there is if the ppm you calculate from your EC reading is not due largely to bicarbonate in your water. Your water can have a high pH (be alkaline) but not have high enough ionic strength (low alkalinity) to affect the buffering, and therefore pH, of the growing media. On a more practical level, you can just monitor your pH using the Flow Thru method. If your pH starts drifting up fairly quickly, then you want to start adjusting the pH of your water supply or add a media acidifier, like soil sulfur, to compensate for the alkalinity of your water. Of course, that requires another titration. If the pH stays pretty constant over time, you can happily do nothing. I hope this makes sense & helps!

People have been growing fig trees for (i really don't know) a gazillion years. I know the history and the science guys will want to pin point it, like it really matters. I also know that the history and the science guys get it wrong, but will throw many words to belittle you to prove they are smart. I say this, history guys have been fighting wars for as long as time, and science guys have created their weapons.
Jason started a experiment a few months ago, but I kinda forgot because all the bs in the middle. How's your method working for you. Would really like to know. I will say I don't like it, but will not argue if it works for you. Just never know, you could change my mind. My mind is open to change, if presented properly.

If you ask any of the old timers, they will tell you to throw some kind of animal crap and lime on them, that's it. I don't have the answer why, but all their fig trees are still alive. No meters or thing for measurements. Fig trees are very easy to work with and can grow well in many conditions. You can do many things wrong and it will still grow good for you. I'm not saying science can't help, just saying don't over complicate things. Growing fig trees is not rocket science.

So Dr. V  your answer please. I am waiting for a update. And I'll see you probably on wed.

luke

PS: i ducking under the computer screen, waiting for arrows and weapons of mass destruction.

Luke - No arrows or WMD from me. Fig trees are pretty forgiving in general and I agree with you that growing them is not rocket science, particularly in the ground. Growing them in containers can be a bit more of a challenge but very straight-forward approaches work. It strikes me that it is similar to growing cuttings. Some folks are happy to stick cuttings into potting mix and get some trees. Other folks are striving to get 100% of their cuttings to root & give trees. Some of us spend way too much time & effort trying to perfect growing conditions. I, like Hortstu, find it fun to try and get maximum growth & productivity from my trees.

Horstu - I did misunderstand you. So sorry. Checking your water pH pre & post watering will tell you what is going on in your media, yes. If your irrigation water is near pH 7 and has low EC, you should be fine. Here are a couple of publications that explain pH & water really well.
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/floriculture/plugs/ph.pdf
http://extension.unh.edu/agric/AGGHFL/pHarticl.pdf

Good luck with your fig trees!

Lots of good information here from DWD2.
I'm formulating my mix now for all of the up-potting I will do in the near future.

Right now I'm working with peat moss, composted fir bark and a few other organic and non-organic components after researching several name brand recipes like Promix, MG, Foxfarm and others