How about a recipe for whoopee cakes?

Tapla, thankyou for the Whitcomb lead. I'm almighty ignorant when it comes to plants, so I had a ferret around for some of his literature. I didn't have much luck, but I did find a paper that helped me appreciate your sense of things.

Wright, A.N. (1998) Influence of Lime and Micronutrient Amendments on Growth of Containerized Landscape Trees Grown in Pine Bark (unpublished master's thesis). Faculty of Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, Blacksburg, Virginia. Retrieved from http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/public/etd-7598-11410/materials/anwthesis.pdf

I can't vouch for its veracity, but the short literature review does give me some perspective. The studies she references do seem to corroborate at least something of your understanding of pH. It's a fascinating business, this science.

But have a look at this.

papertiger, congratulations on jumping into the literature and finding something worthwhile! Doing that gets you into the huge puzzle that is biology and the never ending quest to put the pieces of that complex puzzle together. Ms. Wright did publish her work. You can find it here:

DWD2,

I would like to ask you a question;

Are you Dan?

You sure sound like you have a personnel grudge against Al ( Tapla ).
Whom I may remind you that most of us look up to him from time to time for help. The Man is quick to give his answers and opinions.

To me, it seems that Al has done his own experiment and research and has drawn his own conclusions and is sharing with us.

Where as to you, you keep adding links after links after links.
Please tell us what what experiment YOU have conducted and what the results where?

Personally, I am not interested into looking into all those links you are providing.

You are forgetting the fact that this little community is mostly backyard hobbyist. We are not scientists! We just like to keep it simple!

I'm sorry for stepping onto your foot like this but it seems this is getting out of hand.

Not saying I'm an Angel.
I too had my share of run ins with others as well. But we learned to stay here in peace and not cross paths.

Don't try to ruin this forum for us. We are like one big family.
Please let it go or go away!!!!

I don't know the various histories here but think all viewpoints should be welcome. Let people make up their own minds. I personally like it when people provide links so that I can read the sources for their opinions. If someone doesn't want to follow the links, they don't have to. Many people with or without scientific backgrounds actually prefer references and often reach different conclusions. :) If someone doesn't like a particular poster, since there isn't an ignore list here, they can skip over what they are saying.

As to the tension in this thread, well, that happens on the internet. It's one of the main reasons I don't much like Garden Web and mostly stopped going years ago. (Plus their horrible format.) Too many big fish in various little ponds having p*ssing contests - with some of the advice given quite questionable. Some people seem to like conflict. I don't - at least with my gardening pursuits. Hopefully it's not as bad as it used to be over there. YMMV.

I don't see the same thing here however. In fact that's one of the things I really like about this place - a great many people who really know their stuff, who are willing to share, and who treat each other with respect. 

Back to the serenity of tending my baby figs... 

Gina,

I am sorry you are having trouble understanding what is going on here. Please read between the lines and understand what's going on.

I care about this forum. I am a long time member and contributor.
I will not allow some fly by nighter come and destroy the integrity of this forum. At least I will not go on without being heard.

If you want to follow the links then that's your God given right, I'm not twisting anyones arm.

Unfortunately, it's sounding like "deja vu all over again"!

I appreciate the sharing of information and personal experience. Some people put a lot of time and effort into helping other forum members, and I have benefitted greatly from the posts on this forum. Even when I don’t agree with a particular point of view, I still often learn something useful.

I’m not a scientist and am often not very scientific in my approach to things. I figure that if something works for me, that’s a good thing—even if I don’t understand all the reason s why it works. At the same time, the more I understand about the science behind certain recommendation, the better, so I try to learn whatever my aging brain seems capable of understanding.

I've spent a fair bit of time around people who feel passionately about one subject or another, and have noticed something that seems counterintuitive, and yet is very common. I call it the “law of small differences”. Basically, it is that people who might disagree completely on big things, like politics or religion, often get along just fine because they are careful to avoid stepping on each other’s toes, but in areas where their differences are really pretty small, such as distinctions in the finer points of growing figs, people often become less cautious about giving offense, and can quickly become seriously upset with each other. Debate can be a very good thing—it’s especially valuable to “spectators” attempting to evaluate ideas—but when it moves from discussing the merits of an idea to questioning the merits of a person, there’s rarely a positive outcome. We’ve all seen rifts form between knowledgeable forum members, and all too often it ends with someone leaving, which is a shame. A little more care about separating the person from the perspective would make for a better forum. 

Ken,

You have my peace my friend.

From this point on I will stay out of it.

I said what need to be said and that's the end of it.

You have my respect.

Hi Jason V
I used to use all the fancy stuff in past and it worked good but this works  good as well for me and  i show in picture some of my fig trees.
As a note i dont measure anything a little of this and a little of that  plus fertilizer and an occasional dose of superthrive when i have it .

I keep it very simple.
If what you members use works thats  Great as were all different .

Some of my trees and what i use.
Would like to see pictures of others Members "fig trees" that posted here in this thread like the newer members .

Peace, rafed. :)

Martin those figs are lovely. Hopefully I'll have figs that nice some day. Mine are still in the small rooting stage - with illusions of grandeur.

Gina,

;)

ok, i don't know what kind of fig that is, but i want them.

pete

Got a KB to trade?  ;)

(joke)

Gina,

By any chance; is that fig called "Saint Valentine" ?!?!

I have [Saint Fig(s)]:

St. Anthony,

St. Jean,

St. Jerome,

St. John (I think),

St. Pio,

St. Rita.

I had assumed that like the recent tomato fig photo, that the heart-shaped fig had been photo-shopped. But I wonder if you could grow figs of different shapes using the same sort of plastic containers that the Japanese use for growing square watermelons.

Tapla,
Your advice on container soils transformed my growing. I used to just buy the best soil at the local nursery and assume I was doing the right thing. I now get DG at a safe spot off the road and process it at home with 3 screens that I made. I get an NAPA floor dry equivalent from a local feed store and mix that with DG, #3 perlite, and organic compost. I don't need links or pages of research to read. I can just look at the root system of my plants when I repot and I see the healthiest root systems I've ever had...BY FAR! I also see excellent top growth on my plants , my 2 Black Madeira trees are off to the races and have already put on almost a foot of growth this year and we have long growing season left.
Thanks again for making me a better grower.
Eric

I'm not sure what the deal is. If a pedant wants to leave a dozen links every time he says something, and if others appreciate it, that's fine. I've done all the research so many times I can't count, and I'm not going to jump through a bunch of hoops for some guy because he thinks I should. If people choose not to believe me or ignore me because I don't link to some one's study, it's not my loss - I don't care. I'm here to help those I can, where I can - not to argue with someone with a h/o for me.

The conversation started out about the comparison between peat & coir, and I highlighted some differences that put coir in something a little less than a shining light when compared with peat. It does have a high K content. It's high pH (in comparison to peat) makes liming agents unsuitable, so if your fertilizer doesn't have Ca/Mg, you're probably going to have to use CaSO4 and MgSO4 (gypsum and Epsom salts) to get them to your plants (unless you KNOW what's in your water and have the wherewithal to adjust). DWD acts as though he's enlightening me when it comes to discussions about managing nutrition based on what's in your water, but I've had that discussion many dozens of times. The thing is, if you're a hobby grower and DON'T know what's in your water, do you think it's better to forget about adding Ca and Mg entirely and take a chance that the elements are going to be deficient, or err on the side of safety and use a mix you can safely add lime to? Also, virtually ALL commercial container mixes include lime to adjust pH AND supply Ca/Mg.

"All coir products tested have very high K contents and low Ca contents. Their pH is generally close to 6.0, so there is no possibility of using liming materials to supply Ca." From Handreck and Black's "Growing Media for Ornamental Plants and Turf". ISBN # 0 86840 796 8  I really don't make this stuff up. ;-) 

When I quote a Dr of Horticulture, it's not good enough - he actually suggests the guy isn't worth listening to. We all are entitled to our opinions, but there are few greenhouse/nursery operations w/o a copy of Dr Whitcomb's work, no matter what one person's opinion. He used the same tactic on GW when I quoted another PhD, Dr Carolyn Male - dissing her as if she's also an idiot ...... but she showed up on the thread and offered her credentials, which I thought was interesting.

I don't care how anyone else might view it, I know, that when someone can pack more than 20 insults into a single post, there's assuredly an axe to grind.

Al

I couldn't agree more. A little bit of dissonance is a good thing, provided we don't play the man. Too much harmony and we'd all start mulching with fairy floss.

I have one fig, 4 months old. A St. Dominique Violette. I've a Blue Province and a White Nicolina on the way.  I'm in awe of the breadth of knowledge I find here and am grateful for those that sustain it. We can only benefit from a willingness to share.

Thanks!

By the way, did anyone read about the study that found the roots of young plants produced and reacted to sound? It wasn't Beethoven, though, lest anyone get any ideas.

Al, all I can say is Wow!

For the rest of us, here is what Dr. Carolyn Male said:

(look at the end of this GW thread)

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0220401322934.html?85

Papertiger now your talking as many know i have sung to my plants.
One of there favorites as we sway together in the summer breeze is
That's Amore.

Thanks for the link Gorgi .

Dieseler, I hope your figs can hold a tune!

rafed. I live in Australia, so there's no possibility of sharing it. If it fruits, or even if it doesn't, I'll be sure to express what I make of it.

Thanks papertiger,

I meant to edit but hit delete. This is why my question disappeared.

Hope it does you well. Keep us informed please.

Here's an update on an early test sample. The mix in parts was 2 pine bark fines, 2 pro mix bx, and 1 perlite with lime and fertilizer mixed in. My current mix is 3 PBF, 2 perlite, and 1-1/2 pro mix bx with lime and fertilizer. For my rooted cuttings no pro mix just 3-2-0. The older the tree the more Pro mix I will add. So far the mixes drain fast and I have no root rot.

Nice looking roots! Can't argue with success.

I was cruising the cacti/succulents thread over at GW and came across a link someone had left about coir after the conversation had turned in a coirly direction. I remembered this thread & thought it may be of interest.

http://www.usu.edu/cpl/PDF/CoconutCoirPaper.pdf

Al