Hi everyone
I m Godsavesthequeen, newbie from Marseille, France. First, greetings for the new fundation structure, I guess it will be fine for the figs promotion, around the world.

I have an embryo of collection, I am interested in ethnic fig. I have in collection Kalamata, Lesvos, Markopoulou, Yesil Güz, Sari Zeybek, Adriatic, which have been planted in pot. In my orchard, something I failed to give a name. Perhaps "Col de Dame" (?). I will post some pics about it, I would be glad to be helped by taxonomic figs tree specialist.

I am searching and testing convective resistant ecotypes, i.e, some dwarf or adapted fig trees to the convective climates located on rocky, bare, dry places. By now, I am testing dwarf israeli forms...; and iranians (Zagros tyype...). Iranians are for me very closed to F. afghanica. Coming from seedlings, the trees exhibes leaves variance in morphologic expression. Does it exist dimorphism in Zagros fig?

I have another vision relative to taxonomy: Morphologic  and moleculars markers are helpfull for taxonomist, but  are not enough to approach plant behaviour in environmental conditions. For that, I trust in physiologic approach, respective to the microclimatologic behaviour (Bowen rapport impact on plant...; convective stress, atmospheric deficit vapour pressure and observations of fig trees under respective stress ...)

Recently, I discovered the Hilgardia synthesis, and the famous "three sections" described in it (Archaic types, San pedro types etc...).

I wonder about the genetic determinism of that types? I have a gross question: Does it exist self fecondation in the F. carica ??  What is the impact of caprifig in morphologic and gustative characters?

Best regards
Chriss (=GSTQ)

Chriss,

Welcome to the forum.
I feel that you will bring a good deal of information to this forum from your area and experience .

Being in the same 'ecoZone'  E.U.,  we are not affected by any severe restrictions when we enter the free exchange of plant material... ( At last free!!!)

From Portugal I propose to enrich your collection with the following local ethnics:

a couple of San Pedro - ditto for Common - ditto for Smyrna  .... (no cost)

hopping that you will not be disappointed !!

Cheers
Francisco
Southern Portugal

Welcome to the Forum Chriss.

Hello Chriss,
Welcome to the forum community.

welcome to the forum.

Welcome Chris!

Welcome!!!

welcome, chris!

Welcome is all I can say. No clue as to the rest of your post.

Welcome Chris
I am sure you will enrich the forum in the long run.
I already learned from your post that you do believe in God and that you want to save people (& figs) but I thought France was a democratic republic and did not have any Queen so possibly you might be referring to the Queen of figs (!?).
As mentioned in an above post, part of your post (with technical terms) was like reading an abstract of post graduate thesis. It shows the depth of your knowledge and hopefully, over time, we will benefit a lot from your posts.

wow, registered 5 years ago and today is first post...

welcome sir...

maybe his screen name is because he is sex pistols fan?

Where it says registered 08/09, it means Aug 9.  I made the same mistake at first.

Welcome, Chriss.  I'm curious: what are the characteristics of your fig from Lesvos?

Thanks everyone and sorry for the delay!

Lampo: Your proposal is great, I already have Smyrna (= Calymyrna= Protoben = Baglama etc??...). My Smyrna came from seeds, from dried Baglama figs I had bought, eaten, and defecated.

Sorry for that non politically correct digression, but I noticed that seeds coming from the whole Moraceae family sprout well after being eaten and digested. This strange Moraceae's law is valid for Broussonetia (papyrifera, kazinoki...), Morus, and of course Ficus carica ...

Lampo: Please tell if you are searching special circa-Marseille fig, it would be a pleasure to send cuttings to you/

Ottawa: of course, the "Queen Fig" is Vassilika:)

Ohjustaguy: Yes, Im sexpistols fan, but not only... In fact, I am a french guy without french culture, I just hear about english or US music, my best choice is Lalo Schiffrin or Allan Holdsworth:)

Harry C: Lesvos... Humm... Coming from Greece and bought it on ebay in late spring.. "Lesvos" is a small greek island near Turky. This variety comes not well in Marseille: perhaps  fears sunny overadiation, the leaves are stressed here. Perhaps the actual Bowen ratio is to strong for it in Marseille: too much convection, not enough latent heat (??)


I have noticed that the Hillardia key is ancient and dated. The Hillgardia key, done in the 50's, is based on morphological characters of the sycone. It will be interesting to discriminate the forms of the leaves. I noticed that juvenil leaves are very different in each cultivar. I will post some pics to demonstrate my point of view.

Soon, I will post some pics of wild Marseille specimen I have there. I have pain to give a name to plenty of fig trees which are growing there. I am waiting for the fruiting season, in early October!

It is fun to be aware that Ficus carica is a "scat fan", their roots are spreading in sewer pipes seaking human dejections and water. Perhaps we could positive that phenomenon using ficus in water depollution. Knowing this, I use sewage to feed my Ficus! If anyone has other experience, I will be glad to learn about!!

Every posters, thank you again for your kindness!

Bonjour

Welcome!  Ficus carica is not self pollinating but can be parthenocarpic.  What we call common type is parthenocarpic.  They don't need the wasp to ripen and enable those of us with poor climates to eat fresh, ripe figs.  Rumor has it that caprification makes a fig taste better.  A great link for fig genetics is http://waynesword.palomar.edu/pljun99b.htm .  They have the answer to your question there.

Hello Jennifer, Bonjour!!
Rcantor: Thank you for the link, I integrated that the "doxa"  postulate that it exists only pathenogeny and cross pollinisation via caprifig, therefore... fig sexuallity is complex, perhaps it exists in nature "female typus" making hermaphrodite viable sycones? In fact, that was my question!

Anybody there, tried to cross pollinise the cultivars from Smyrna type with caprifig to test the progeny?

Here in the States LSU and UCR had programs.  Some people have had success blowing pollen from a caprifig into a female fig.  In several places they will hang caprifigs among Smyrnas or common figs so that the emerging wasps will pollinate them.  There are many fig synconia having male and female flowers inside.  In the caprifigs the male flowers are ready with their pollen as the wasps escape.  There are no female flowers at that time.  The caprifig's female flowers are ready earlier when the wasps arrive. 

Yes, of course. But futher investigations would be useful, specially ecotypes specialised in drought and convective environnement... P'erhaps, it exists fig tree in nature with coexistence of hard evolutive pression (convection, droughtness..;) and other adaptative characters than wasp?  It is fun to see that environmental modelisations focussed on soil texture, but avoid microclimatic considerations... After reading the OKE's book (boundary layer), I didnt see plant taxonomy in same way...

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your notes..very interesting !

Are your Smyrna cultivars (..from those Baglama seeds) already producing figs ? Have you names for such cultivars ?

I do several Smyrna varieties, the climate does help  and the wasp is practically everywhere in my District.

By the way, have recently located a seedling of not more than 3 or 5 years old, producing edible figs and I suspect they are Smyrna.
Will have soon seeds from this fig,... if you need some of these  seeds for your tests let me know.
See a recent thread, posted on the forum - 'the Sparrow fig'  -with several pictures of this seedling tree, growing from the trunk of a palm tree.

By Feb/2014 will arrange to dispatch to you those promised sticks.
Also,  I accept your offer and will be sending you en email in that respect.

Francisco

Hi Fransisco,

Thanks a lot for your help!
If I understood the problematic, Smyrna (Lerida = Protoben) belongs to the archaic type and needs the wasp. I have an old Smyrna specimen in my orchard here in Marseille (sorry, it came from seeds... thus I do not know the cv name!), it gives figs in august but do not ripen. As we have the wasp here, and several caprifig circa my orchard, I wonder if the the wasps from Turkey or Greece are the same than those we have here in Provence?

Ok, I will check your link of your sparrow fig! I noticed that Palm tree often are symbiotic with plenty of nitrophil plants (Pittosporum, Sedums..., and Ficus!).

Smyrna seeds sprout well, but only if they have been eaten, as every Moraceae species:) The germination level is weak because figs are sulfurised ("Sulfites"=  perhaps germination inhibitor??).

Your are a specialist of Ficus, Fransisco, I will post the pics of semi-wild female we have around, and I will be glad to search every litigious female fig tree around Marseille, and send you cuttings. I propose we keep in touch!!

Hello Chris,

I have lived for many years with family growing figs and the wild (male fig) was omnipresent ! pollinating all varieties, be they Smyrna, Common or San Pedro (main crop)
I am no specialist, simply observing the behavior of these plants and their relationships with the provider of the pollen.
Although not being absolutely sure, the insect commonly known by 'wasp' is of the Agaonidae family
(Hymenoptera order) , - Genus/Species :  Blastophaga psenes  is similar along the Mediterranean basin from the shores of Turkey,Greece, Lebanon, Israel... westward, to Portugal and Morocco.

The figs you call Smyrna, showing up in August may be from that variety which in the absence of the pollinator, dry and fall to the ground. If interested to see those figs to ripe, if you can,  keep paying regular visits to the Caprifigs you said near your yard from 10/15 June onwards...The good caprifigs at that time appear on the top wood of the previous year in clusters of six to ten per branch or even more and are called Profichi...If healthy, they should be full of the good pollen and holding several hundred insects.
Depending on the variety of the Caprifig and weather, in principle, those Profichi's are fully ripe between the 15th and 20th of June approx... very soft skin and no resistance when lightly pressed between fingers. With some experience, feeling the fig weight in your hand you may say it has more or less wasps.
I am attaching a couple of cutaways of Profichi's at that stage and you will see the insides...many galls still with wasps and on a particular fig, the tunnel 'excavated' by the male wasps to ease the way to their ladies, soon exiting the fig laden with pollen, through the eye..

As regards to the fig seed germination, best is first to separate the seeds sinking to the bottom of a glass, so you are about sure that these do have a kernel and have good chances of germinating promptly at the right season (early Spring)

Let them in a mix os 15 to 20% table vinegar and tap water for 1 hour or so, then agitate well , rinse and they should be OK and free of their natural inhibitor. Doing so I never get less than 70 to 80% germination. In old times, people would do as per your funny description..and it works!!
Cheers
Francisco

Right! I do the same for Morus from Tafresh (Iran) and Broussonetia kazinoki. In the past, I had 0% germination with Moraceae seeds. Since I used to eat their delicious fruits,  the germination level increased. I will try your vinegar process! Thank you for having explain it!!

I am like you, I try to observe nature the best I can. This method is a good approach, the best way I think!

It is often difficult to remove dormances. Every plant's Familiy have a dedicated dormancy process. Most archaic family have no dormance (Magnoliaceae, Pinaceae), but evolution complexified the germination processes. Here in convective areas in mediterranean zone, the dormance is non existent, the fruits ripen with delay in October and sprout readily in early winter, so that, the roots are formed when drought occurs in early May.

In phreatic-non-mediterranean zones, it is the contrary, the fruits (cerasus, prunus and so one...) ripen very early (May), fall on the soil in July and spend the winter in the cold soil. The coldness removes dormancy, and small plants sprout in spring: thus the physiologic cycles are inversed and not the same for mediterranean plants and for mesic plants (=extramediterranean).

Perhaps we could have the same evolutive dichotomy in the genus Ficus?? It is likely that northern ecotypes follow the winter dormancy principe, and southern ecotypes follow the non-dormancy principe (???).

Last may, I posted a video on youtube showing the blastophage on a (mamoni????) growing in my garden. At that period, only one wasp was visible. Let check on:

... By the way, your cutting arrived this morning, gorgous healthy stick with several green living eyes!!  I noticed the cutting had a good flavour!

I have a good reprise percentage setting containers on wet substrate, so that I do not water the cutting in the container directly, the irrigation is  via  capillarity, water going upset by matric and gravific potential. That way avoid the cutting to rotten, and leaves are appearing in few weeks.

I have some Barbusano gfrom laurisylva from Madeira (laurus novocanariensis, Appolonias barbusano...). Those plants comes well in Marseille in humid climate, with a weak Bowen ratio (evaporation higher than convection). It is logical, because your isle is located in the ocean. Perhaps the Black Madeira will have the same logic, it will be interesting to test the madeiran cultivar  versus several environnements respective to the Bowen ratio.

High Bowen ratio is a convectice ambiance: for example close to a wall south faced
Unitary Bowen ratio is when convection is balanced by evaporation: for example prairial watered or phreatic ecosystem on very sunny exposition
Weak Bowen ratio is a latent heat ambiance: for example dark ambiance and much evaporation (close to a lake, ripisylva ...)

Best regards,
Chriss

Chriss
nous sommes donc deux français à s'intéresser aux figuiers sauvages et cultivés d'iran

pourrons-nous faire des échanges cet hiver ?

bien cordialement

Peter


--- so we are both frenchmen interested in wild and cultivated figs from persia
could we do some exchange next winter ?
all the best
Peter