Planteur: Oui, naturellement, les miens sont issus de graines semées au printemps, ils font déjà 15cm mais la croissance est lente chez afghanistanica sensu lato semble t il... D'emblée, une grande variance morphologique est constatée, certains d'entre eux ont des limbes découpés, d'autres ont les limbes presque entiers. C'est pour cette raison que je posais la question à nos amis du forum, cad si le dimorphisme mâle/femelle serait plus accusé chez afghanistanica que chez carica, les individus mâles correspondant à ceux qui ont des limbes dentés et qui ont tendance à emettre plusieurs tiges (=multicaules), mais tout ça au pif,  je me planter bien sûr!

Deuxièmement, j'ai acheté sur ebay deux specimens nommés "afghanistanica" (ebayeur allemand), ils ne correspondent pas au premier abord à ceux que je fais pousser à partir de graines.

C'est tout ce que je peux dire sur le topic, je n'ai pas assez de recul pour débattre des figuiers iraniens.
Cheers

Hello Chriss,

The vinegar treatment works well and I have confirmation that it did OK in Brazil.. this acid solution somehow partially simulates the gastric enzymes,and the lot of substances involved in the digestive tract.

As regards to your comments on Black Madeira, my understanding is that  this cultivar originated from an old Portuguese variety of common figs called Violeta who may have migrated to the Atlantic archipelagos Madeira, Açores and Canary Islands with the first settlers back in the XV century.
They have strong similarities but the fruit develop slightly differently, size contour, etc.. when compared with the plant so grown in here.

From your comments on ficus dormancy's, I can only say that mine keep dormant through winter with no apparent vegetative activity with exception of the wild figs (caprifigs)---although showing no leaves the mamme crop grows significantly, holding the new colonies of wasps until it matures, liberating the new wasps by mid March.
The fig on your video does not seem to be a mammoni...At that time (May) the crop living on the caprifig should  be the Profich... see pics of my Profochi's in May 5th- the gall capsules full of larvae which in approx a month time will be fully developed wasps reay to exhit the synconium.

I have no experience with afgan of Iran figs. Have seen various contributions from forum members who grow these cultivars and I think they are very interesting and a complete novelty for a ficus collector.

You talk on your thread of having received some green cuttings with leaves, etc... You may have certainly confused the arrival of these cuttings, as I didn't send yet any cuttings.

cheers
Francisco

Lampo: Sorry for the confusion, I just ordered a cutting from Madeira (Black madeira), arrived yesterday very healthy with "green EYES" (= BUD, not leaves). I was thinking that you were the seller from the Bay (?).

I checked yesterday to see what kind of fig  my caprifig is carrying: in fact, due to drought, the whole profichis  felt down. Thus, not surprising my female fig trees "wasp-dependant" stay unpollinised. I guess the lack of water stress them... My caprifig grows on bare soil, with no water reserve. They spend the summer season in semi dormance, without any profichis nor much leaves. I should improve irrigation!!

Black Madeiran: The history of this cultivar is very interesting. That means that the cultivar has been improve by genic flux once installed on Madeira. Have you an idea of putative parent responsible of fruit improvement??

I was upset when I learned the existence of the Malta beauty, and the attraction on US' forumers!... It is clear 'malta beauty' is cosmeticaly a very nice fig, but do you think that cultivar deserves the price reached on the Bay ?? (lol). It is tempting to go herborise on small mediterranean and macaronesian islands to study the germplasm and ficus genetic ressources... Perhaps the "good" genes coding from flavour, odor and texture are far in the South? 

One think i am sure: convective areas as mediterranean island (Pantelleria, Lampedusa, Creta, Cyprus...bare dry soils...) are medium which  apply selective pression toward non adapted phenotypes. It is possible that natural selection  enhanced genotypes with high osmotic pression, thus high sucroses level. (Intern solution fiiled with sucroses improves the water soil succion!!). So, the fig trees from South, naturally selectioned, are naturally adapted to survive in high temperature medium. The incidence of high sucrose intern level is responsible of nice fruits flavour.

In other hand, the shiny skin may be caused by natural selection: high reflectance (albedo), lowering the heat flux axed on the sycone.

it is an embry of evolutive genetic. It is the same with other species, as Quercus ballota (from Spain), whose acorns are sweet. On contrary, acorns of Quercus ilex are astringent:))

Cheers

Chriss,

It's  all right for the confusion.. The chap selling on eBay has   same name!

But I am glad you got your cuttings OK.  I have also bought some from him.
While mentioning BM and to respond to your question about the putative influences on the original cultivar, I can only say that assuming the first plants were taken from this District (the only place with such fig), they were certainly grown on heavy calcareous soils with no artificial irrigation whatsoever.. it seems that in old days it was a 'sin' to water a fig tree.!?.. Frequent superficial cultivation along the season and the 2 or 3 dumps of manure (cow/horse) per season...mild temps in winter, a few frosts, but seldom descending bellow 3 or 4ºC... Summers were very long and very hot, typical Mediterranean, with a total absence of rain.

When moving to the Islands, particularly Madeira they switched to pure volcanic soils (on the north coast) NE winds, loaded with humidity brought by ´trades' and the almost constant diluted spray from the heavy swells of that particular north coast

http://www.madeira-web.com/PagesUK/weather2-uk.html

From this link you see how mild weather this fig encountered in Madeira ( a paradise when compared to its home slopes) Probably the type and rate of nutrients also change, shall I say for the better.

The Malta Beauty factor is a good example of how to make good money without much trouble.Once in a while similar factors pop up 'here and there'.

Once you mentioned those Med Islands, let me tell you that many years ago, just after WWII (1948) my grand dad took me with him to visit a good friend of his living in Pantelleria and the discussion was figs. I recall he was looking for some fig (which we tasted) I still have today its flavors in my palate.
It was a large black fig, most probably a Zidi as per recent inquiries.

Quercus ballota - I love this seed/fruit ! but not all. we do have plenty around. I used to eat eat it raw but the best are roasted in the oven after you cut if partially along its axis. If you need seeds let me know.

Francisco

PS- see these pics of young Violeta aka Black Madeira to compare when yours pop up some shoots!

Hi Fransisco!
Very interesting what you are describing!...

According to you, the divergences between BM fig tree and lusitanian fig tree comes only from environmental effect, with no genetic improvement? Were the original  "district" of BM fig tree : inland, in Portugal? Do you  mean that only soil effect (Volcanic soil from Madeira, saline aerosols...) responsible of the good flavour of BM fig, without genetic influences?

It would be easy to check an eventual  genetic effect, via culture of lusitanian fig tree in the same environnement than BM fig tree, disposed in plots with repetition of genotypes in order to balance micro environnemental effects.

I say that because in nature, it is frequent that natural population are adapted in their respective environnement via genetic flux. The alleles which are bad for the plant are eliminated while alleles which are good for the adaptation are positively selected. It would be not surprising that genetic flux occured between female lusitanian fig tree and  Madeiran-native wild caprifig?? It is hypothetic but possible...

'Zidi' : It is great to have this data. Is "Zidi" belonging to primitive wasp-dependant type, as the whole pool of  North African fig trees? Pantelleria is very close to Tunisia. When I was young, I went to Pantelleria, not for fig searching, but for  mysterious Sideritis searching. That plant was cited by italians botanists "Sull la Granda Pontagna". I didnt found it, but I felt on Georgio Armani staff which was doing some racollage, searching young boys for orgy activity... I run very fast!! -)

Chriss,

...wait a minute!.. I did not say that..

quote:
... the divergences between BM fig tree and lusitanian fig tree comes only from environmental effect, with no genetic improvement.. unquote,

neither I mean anything you are suggesting..

quote:

...Do you  mean that only soil effect (Volcanic soil from Madeira, saline aerosols...) responsible of the good flavor of BM fig, without genetic influences? ....unquote

I limited my comments to the drastic environmental changes which may have affected the initial cultivars arriving in Madeira Islands.. soil, wind, temperature, humidity, etc..Not a word I said on any genetic, voluntary or not, interference from whatever source in the archipelagos.

I am not aware of any  good caprifigs in Madeira neither of any wasp colonies

The lusitanean fruit (Violeta) compares well with BM and the actual Figo Preto, apparently taken to California around 50 years ago by an emigrant.
If you have access through your tech investigations to a facility where the genetics (DNA) could be
investigated (at a reasonable cost) , let us know.

Francisco

Fransisco:  "Hélas" no! I am just botanist-amateur interested in agronomy or taxonomy, but not able to discuss about ficus carica DNA... I have some (weak) relation with INRA (Institut National Recherche Agronomique) located in AVIGNON. I know they experiment on DNA bar-coding: last winter I send them Pinus specimen, because we have in South France problems with pine determination (both P. halepensis/ P. brutia, with eventual genetic flux among them...), but not aware about Ficus trees at all.  Therefore, it seems very interesting to debate about Ficus evolutive pressions, and adaptative character. It is possible that nice fig flavour and nice aspect of the fruit are simply adaptative characters to environmental stress, fixed in genome since many years... Very often, I noticed "in situ" than coastal sites and dry/bare/convective sites generate good genetic improvement (against pest, resistance, fruit flavour). Only texture becomes bad (many  lignous tissues are synthetised under convective stress) if coastal stress is applied, but that can be balanced if plant lives in high hygrometric medium. In Sicilia, such site exist near Taormina...

Lisa:
Hello Lisa!
Very happy to hear to you.
We wait for your pics!!
Chris