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satellitehead

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Sorry, no figs in this one.  I know a lot of you folks grow tons of other fruits, so please forgive me ;)

So, in another thread where user macmike was asking to swap grape cuttings, I mentioned that I lost track of my grapes and I'm not sure which is which.  I purchased (in a box at Lowes) a Himrod seedless and a Reliance seedless.  I am not sure which is which anymore and they didn't fruit this year after being heavily cut back and neglected.  In fact, one of them hardly grew (they're rootbound in their pots).

I saw others mentioned having Himrod and Reliance.  I'm hoping someone can look at these leaf pictures and help me decide which is which.  I'm pretty sure the heart-shaped leaf is Reliance.  The other one ... I guess is Himrod, but I'm just not sure.  The edges look more jagged than normal Himrod, and only half of the leaves have 3 lobes.

Any feedback from grape growers that have these varieties is sincerely appreciated.  I can tell you that one of the plants produces a 'blush' grape, the other produces a mostly green grape.

Attached Images
jpeg maybe-himrod.jpg (168.00 KB, 29 views)
jpeg maybe-reliance.jpg (165.46 KB, 24 views)


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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Didja forget something? - no pics.  Anyways, I'll take a pic of leaf when I get home.  If I remember correctly slightly lobed and slightly jagged - but I'll check.
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lukeott

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
hey Jason, i don't have an answer for you but would like to pass on info i got from garden web. i was told it was not good to put grape vines in pots, they need a much larger area to spread there roots. i want to start a vinyard and asked about starting vines in pots and was told bad idea. my thought at first was i would get a head start but was informed thats a no no.
                                                                                      luke
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Posted Reply with quote  #4 

Sorry it was that damn forum bug.  Sadly, they recently updated the stupid forum upload tool.  Obviously, it's still broken.

See pictures now.


And Luke, I heard the same thing, but it's what I had at the moment, so it's where they went!  They still managed to fruit the 2nd and 3rd year, but got heavily cut back the year after.
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Jason
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strudeldog

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 

The one with the larger teeth around the leaf does not look like my Reliance or my Himrod, but mine are small and have not fruited yet, and just assuming they were labeled true.

 One excellent source of info  on bunch grapes is Lon J. Rombough site    http://www.bunchgrapes.com  he is the NAFEX Interest Group coordinator and one of the foremost  authors and authorities on grapes. He has both pictured and as a grape specialist you can be pretty sure he has the correct cultivar pictured, unlike a lot of general nursery photos
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Phil N.GA. Zone 7 Looking for: De La Reina, Del La Senyora, Martinenca Rimada, Parfum De Cafards, Ponte Tresa,  Sangue Dulce, Emalyn's Purple, and on and on
Karla

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Jeson,
my Himrod looks more like the second picture.

Karla

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tmc2009

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Here are my three year old Reliance leaves and grapes.  At least that is what the label said.  Mine have seeds though.  I was thinking of getting a wine kit and try my hand at making some wine with the grapes I have hanging on the vines now, but the kits are around $200 so maybe some grape jelly instead?  They aren't really like eating table grapes. 

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jpeg RelianceGrape.jpg (111.31 KB, 17 views)


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Tom
Massachusetts Zone 6b

satellitehead

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 

Those look like Concord grapes to me.
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #9 

Here, check this out:

 

 

The first grape they look at is Himrod.  The leaf matches mine fairly well, with all the fray and points and three apparent lobes.  The vine I have that looks similar also appears to require cane pruning.
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Tom, did you buy your Reliance from TyTy? 

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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #11 

It wouldn't surprise me.  I thought they smelled like concord grape jelly.  Looks like local nurseries are as reliable with grape labeling as with fig labeling.  The other one I have is a smaller grape called Frontenac.  Aren't wine grapes suppose to be smaller? So hopefully it is frontenac.  I bought them from a popular large nursery call Mahoneys here in Winchester MA.
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Tom
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Posted Reply with quote  #12 

Has anyone orderd grape cuttings from UCDavis.  I thought the website seemed to indicate that the cuttings are from a facility in New York?  So is there a different email to send grape cuttings request form to or is it the same email as figs cuttings?
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Tom
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Posted Reply with quote  #13 

Here is a guy growing Reliance.  seems to look similar, heart shaped, tiny teeth on the leaves: 


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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Got home last night after dark so did not snap a pic.  However, did seem to remember of a grill I took that had one of the grape plants in it - before I started training it on the deck rail  Here is the photo cropped,  Sorry about the quality, but it is a crop of a small corner of photo I had already changed to jpeg and reduced in size so I'm pushing the resolution limits.  However, you can still make out the leaf shape. 


Nobody I know recommends Reliance for making wine.  However, there is some might fine fermented concord bootleg around.  Never make it to a sommelier's top ten list.  But sure fun to drink.  They keep it quite sweet. 


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saramc

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 

Wine grapes and table grapes come in different sizes, so don't use size as a rule when trying to make that determination.  Also, many varieties are good for both eating and winemaking.  A good source for grapes is  http://www.doubleavineyards.com/ out of Fredonia, NY...they are the online leader for grape plant distribution & they are easy to talk to!!  A forum for grapes and winemaking that is equivalent to F4F is Winepress US (http://www.winepress.us/forums/index.php)
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Posted Reply with quote  #16 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmc2009

Has anyone orderd grape cuttings from UCDavis.  I thought the website seemed to indicate that the cuttings are from a facility in New York?  So is there a different email to send grape cuttings request form to or is it the same email as figs cuttings?


I'm curious about this as well.  I've seen where people posted getting grape and plum cuttings here at the forum.  I'd love to hear more.

@strudeldog, thanks for that link.  That website helped me locate the next grape variety I'm going for, and I sort of lost interest in Concord now.  Price is looking like the next variety I need to buy.  I also learned that Himrod has to be cane-pruned, which I wasn't aware of (pain in the butt) and thus wouldn't necessarily be great for what I had in mind.
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #17 

Thanks for the info Sara  I'll visit the winemaking forum.  I just found the doubleavinyards website myself last night while trying to see what a reliance grape looks like.  Nature Hills Nursery has a picture that looks like mine but it says its seedless.  Gurneys has some common varieties also.
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Tom
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Posted Reply with quote  #18 

It is not uncommon for "seedless" grapes to have soft or small seeds inside when young or grown in adverse conditions.  Mine were 50/50 - some had seeds, some not.
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Jason
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macmike

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Here is a picture of one of my Concord Seedless leaves.

macmike

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jpeg 100_0239.jpg (37.32 KB, 4 views)


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Mike Hughes, D.Min., Th.D. - Minister  Springhill church of Christ 902 Janice Dr. Springhill, LA. 71085
Rooting: LSU Hollier, Kadota, LSU SY, MB VS, EBT, Ronde de Bordeaux, Emerald Strawberry, LSU Purple, Mission, JH Adriatic, Strawberry Verte,  Osborn, chicago Hardy
Wish list: LSU Red, Adriatic JH,
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Ebay ID: Macmik12 member of Ebay since 2000 Web: http://www.mikealrhughes.com E-mail: mail@mikealrhughes.com http://www.gardenweb.com/members/macmikeal

OttawanZ5

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Jason
I checked my Himrod. The leaves look like the ones in the first picture (on the left).
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satellitehead

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 

Thanks, Akram.

 

Tom, see:  http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=12254
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Jason
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