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Rich's Super Mega Mix

Several Fafard mix recipes...

Fafard 3 is 40% bark

5:1:1 is 71% bark :o

http://fshs.org/proceedings-o/2000-vol-113/130-133%20%28DEKKERS%29.pdf

Rich,
Thanks for sharing that document...
I've been curious as to the % of Vermiculite in some of the more popular commercial potting mixes that include it as an ingredient.

Here's the full brochure about Turface that was provided as a screen shot by ADelmanto,  http://www.turface.com/sites/default/files/landscape_brochure.pdf

Similar to Pea Gravel, I use Hydroton which is the expanded clay pebbles for hydroponics. It can get pretty pricey, so I know people that use volcanic cinders for a fraction of the cost. It is a lot lighter than the pea gravel and serves the same purpose. Just my 2 cents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete
Rich,
Thanks for sharing that document...
I've been curious as to the % of Vermiculite in some of the more popular commercial potting mixes that include it as an ingredient.

Here's the full brochure about Turface that was provided as a screen shot by ADelmanto,  http://www.turface.com/sites/default/files/landscape_brochure.pdf


I read the website this morning. It doesn't apply to anything I'm working on.

Rich,
It may not apply to your Super Mega Mix but,

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichinNJ,
No. Clay will not increase aeration in potting mix.
I have not seen any data saying it will.
It's a bad idea.


It addresses your comment in an earlier post about the merits of Turface (calcined clay).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete
Rich,
It may not apply to your Super Mega Mix but,

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichinNJ,
No. Clay will not increase aeration in potting mix.
I have not seen any data saying it will.
It's a bad idea.


It addresses your comment in an earlier post about the merits of Turface (calcined clay).


Again, adding that stuff to my soil-less potting mix will increase its density.

That stuff is great for soggy baseball fields.


I stopped by the Morristown Agway today and saw they had a huge stack of this. It looks just like the "fines" so many people seem to be looking for.

Rich, that looks like good stuff.  What was the price?  You might want to use turface...Sorry, couldn't resist. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtguy50
Rich, that looks like good stuff.  What was the price? 


$5.99 if you bought a couple. I don't remember exactly but it was less than 5 otherwise I think it was $7 each.

That's probably about right, I pay around $3 but is a 2 cuft bag from Suwannee Lumber Company in N. Florida shipped to Brandon Fl.

I don't think we have an Agway supplier close but I need to check.  We are fortunate to have some good agricultural folk like MFA, etc so I need to check more.  Fines are something I haven't seen but maybe because I wasn't looking specifically for that product.  That looks like a reasonable price for 3 cu ft.  It seem that a lot of folk are having good success using this as a part of their mix.

PS:  Looking forward to what you decide to up-pot your starts to.  I will use the MG and 10% perlite if I have some starts actually grow as you have a lot of success doing that. 

Differences softwood and hard wood bark when used in soil-less mixes

Fafard pine bark percentages ...

http://hortscans.ces.ncsu.edu/library/floriculture/doc_id/955/From-the-Industry-Side--True-Differences-between-Pine-Bark-Hardwood-Bark-and-Bark-Ash.pdf

Rich,

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichinNJ,
Again, adding that stuff to my soil-less potting mix will increase its density.
That stuff is great for soggy baseball fields.

I am in no way insisting that you include Calcined Clay in your Super Mega Mix since we have no idea as to your ingredients. I've posted some of the proven potting mix recipes for growing figs. The 5-1-1 mix and Calcined Clay have been around and used successfully for years well before my introduction to Fig Culture.

Its not conjecture but documented that Calcined Clay will decrease density and compaction due to it aerating the potting mix or garden soil...  http://www.turface.com/sites/default/files/landscape_brochure.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete
Rich,
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichinNJ,
Again, adding that stuff to my soil-less potting mix will increase its density.
That stuff is great for soggy baseball fields.

I am in no way insisting that you include Calcined Clay in your Super Mega Mix since we have no idea as to your ingredients. I've posted some of the proven potting mix recipes for growing figs. The 5-1-1 mix and Calcined Clay have been around and used successfully for years well before my introduction to Fig Culture.

Its not conjecture but documented that Calcined Clay will decrease density and compaction due to it aerating the potting mix or garden soil...  http://www.turface.com/sites/default/files/landscape_brochure.pdf


Let it go Pete. Im not interested.

  • Rob

Rich, I'm sure you've done your research and know what's what, and you can use whatever you want.  For the sake of others here who might not know what these things are, I will give a brief explanation below:

Perlite and Clay are both dense.  Basically like rock.  However, if they are heated to a sufficient temperature in the right industrial process, they expand to many times their original size, while keeping their original weight, thereby becoming much less dense. 

Expanded perlite floats.  This is because it holds onto its air, so the pores do not fill with water.  Some of the pores may hold some water.  The trapped air may or may not exchange with outside air. 

Expanded Clay does not float, as far as I know.  It has pores that will absorb water.  Is heavier (denser) than perlite but not nearly as heavy as clay or sand, etc.  Roots will grow into it. 

Vermiculite is light and holds water or air, but if you put it in a mix it will smush down to where it's useless.  Perlite and EC will not.  EC is more durable than Perlite, but also heavier.  I don't recommend using Vermiculite for any purpose. 

When I run out of the Perlite I already have, I plan on just using straight pine bark fines, with none of the expanded rock additives.  They are OK but I think unnecessary and expensive.  PBF plus maybe peat, some fertilzer, perhaps some lime to raise pH, should be cheap, relatively light, and work well.  



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Rich, I'm sure you've done your research and know what's what, and you can use whatever you want.  For the sake of others here who might not know what these things are, I will give a brief explanation below:

Perlite and Clay are both dense.  Basically like rock.  However, if they are heated to a sufficient temperature in the right industrial process, they expand to many times their original size, while keeping their original weight, thereby becoming much less dense. 

Expanded perlite floats.  This is because it holds onto its air, so the pores do not fill with water.  Some of the pores may hold some water.  The trapped air may or may not exchange with outside air. 

Expanded Clay does not float, as far as I know.  It has pores that will absorb water.  Is heavier (denser) than perlite but not nearly as heavy as clay or sand, etc.  Roots will grow into it. 

Vermiculite is light and holds water or air, but if you put it in a mix it will smush down to where it's useless.  Perlite and EC will not.  EC is more durable than Perlite, but also heavier.  I don't recommend using Vermiculite for any purpose. 

When I run out of the Perlite I already have, I plan on just using straight pine bark fines, with none of the expanded rock additives.  They are OK but I think unnecessary and expensive.  PBF plus maybe peat, some fertilzer, perhaps some lime to raise pH, should be cheap, relatively light, and work well.  



I was also considering removing the perlite in my mix too at one time. Ive got a call into one of the mix manufacturers  tech guys to see what they recommend in their product line for me/us.

Actually I have done a lot of research. You can see a fraction of it based on the links etc. I've posted. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Rich, I'm sure you've done your research and know what's what, ....


Oh and thanks btw.

http://www.carlinsales.com/pdf/Soils.pdf

Fafard heavyweight mixes showing bark percentages...

Name _______________ Processed Pine Bark Percentage

Fafard 3:______________40%
Fafard 50:_____________60%
Fafard 52: _____________55%
Fafard Nursery Mix:______75%

I'm using a Happy Frog, worm castings, and perlite in an approximate 10:3:2 mix by volume.

Keep us posted on your progress Rich.  Your success at growing is obvious.  It's always nice to see folks try new things and be open to expressing what might or might not work the best.  Some people think they are the experts and not willing to listen to someone experimenting.  Pioneers make progress, self-proclaimed experts are usually followers and not leaders.  JMO.

So after reading many papers I've found that Thomas Yeager published some parameters he determined with research. There is data available supporting these numbers for those of us willing to hunt around for it.

Suggested ranges for easiest management of most potting substrates utilized in commercial production of horticultural crops are within the following ranges:

total porosity (TP) (50-85%),
air space (AS) (10-30%),
container capacity (CC) (45-65%),
available water (AW) (25-35%),
unavailable water (UAW) (25-35%)
bulk density (Db) (0.19-0.5 g.cm-3 dry weight)
(Yeager et al.,1997).

Also I've learned that pine bark components vary thruout the year. For example in the winter pine bark contains more wood due to the methods used to remove it.
Aged pine bark is only slightly better than fresh when a nitrogen source is available. Defining aged is difficult because of how the manufacturers store it.
Aged is not composed.

The water table in a container is media size dependent and is constant for that media. A mix that retainers the right amount of water for a tall container may be far too wet in a small container.


  • Rob

Rich, the perched water table stuff is scientifically correct, and I once was a believer in its impact.  However, after growing figs in a hot climate for a few years, I now believe that they will suck up most of any perched water within a day or two in the main growing season.  Also, when I grow in fabric pots I think any excess water will wick out the bottom no matter what mix I'm using. 

Furthermore, most of my potted figs grow some serious roots down into the soil below.  So the composition of the container medium becomes less important in that situation. 

If you are starting cuttings or if your plants are young and in small pots, it's a much bigger issue.  In that case, you've got something like the far left in your photo.  That could kill a cutting. 

looks good Rich ,im gonna try sand and lots of perlite in a mix 1st year growing figs
wish list : any

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfig
looks good Rich ,im gonna try sand and lots of perlite in a mix 1st year growing figs
wish list : any


Fresh unscreened pine bark and sand 8:1 is a standard research mix. (no perlite) There is a lot of data on it

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