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palazzophoto

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Reply with quote  #1 
These appear to be the exact same figs. Leaves look identical, fruit identical and exact same ripening time. Out of about 50 varieties these are the only ripening this early other than Lattarula.

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jpeg IMG_20170517_073847.jpg (209.73 KB, 59 views)
jpeg IMG_20170517_173628.jpg (200.60 KB, 56 views)


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Justin Palazzo
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jrdewhirst

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Reply with quote  #2 
Nope, definitely not the same.  Your pictures are RdB.  You may have a mislabeled Nero 600M.
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Joe D
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Reply with quote  #3 
Can you possibly post pictures of your Nero to compare?
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-Anton
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Rewton

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Reply with quote  #4 
Another thing that distinguishes these two varieties is that Nero600m has a breba crop while RdB generally does not.
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Steve MD zone 7a

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by livetaswim06
Can you possibly post pictures of your Nero to compare?


I assume that those were meant to be side-by-side comparisons of RdB and the supposed Nero 600M.

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Joe D
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palazzophoto

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Reply with quote  #6 
The Nero leaf is on the left, the Nero fruit is on the far left in my palm. These did not get mislabeled either.
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Reply with quote  #7 
Strange as I found it to be almost identical to VDB
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Rewton

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Reply with quote  #8 
For me, the RdB fruit is almost perfectly round while Nero600m (and VdB) have a bit of an oblong shape to them.  Of course, the highly round fruit shape is how Ronde de Bordeaux got its name.
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Steve MD zone 7a

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrdewhirst


I assume that those were meant to be side-by-side comparisons of RdB and the supposed Nero 600M.


Since you said they were absolutely different I was asking you to post pictures of your Nero for comparison.

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-Anton
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fignutty

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Reply with quote  #10 
The two pictured leaves don't look like my RdB. My 600M has too much FMV this spring to get a good idea of leaf shape.

My RdB leaves:

This is pretty typical of mine but I know they can vary.
022.JPG  024.JPG


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Steve in Alpine TX 7b/8a
Wish list: Emalyn's Purple, CdD Blanc, Genovese Nero AF, Violeta, Hative de Argentueil
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Reply with quote  #11 
RDB and Nero 600m are definitely not the same.  If yours are the same, you have a mislabeled tree.
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palazzophoto

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Reply with quote  #12 
So... I guess I have two RDB trees....either way I am very pleased these are ripening so early. I planted 4 trees in my backyard for successive ripening and this works out pretty good to have figs for a while from in ground trees. 

Nero 600m(Actually RDB!)- Very early
LSU Tiger-Early
Alma-Middle
Italian 258-Late


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Justin Palazzo
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fignutty

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Reply with quote  #13 
Look at the RdB leaves in the second picture of post #7 here: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/this-ebay-does-not-look-like-ronde-de-bordeaux-6952286?highlight=rdb+leaf+shape&pid=1283255581

Or look here first post: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/yellowing-leaves-on-rdb-6403233?highlight=rdb+leaves&pid=1278528788

Those RdB leaves look just like mine. Don't look like yours. I can pick out RdB from all my other figs at 20ft when it's growing right.

In terms of fruit mine has never bore fruit at every node and the fruits are smaller. But I didn't have a bearing plant last yr and my memory isn't what it used to be.

I'm not so sure your fig is RdB

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Steve in Alpine TX 7b/8a
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palazzophoto

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Reply with quote  #14 
Thanks guys! Not to add confusion but those " Real RDB" leaves and fruit look just like all the Black Italian trees I have. Such is figdom!
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Justin Palazzo
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Timo

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Reply with quote  #15 
The leaves can show some variation, but RdB typically has reddish dots on it's skin.

P8241857 - kopie.JPG 


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jrdewhirst

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Reply with quote  #16 
Justin -- Getting back to this, after some hours away:  IMO, the fruit and leaves pictured in the 1st post are all RdB.  I agree with Steve -- RdB fruit is very round (and subtlety ribbed) whereas Nero 600M is more teardrop (and smooth).  I'd add that while the leaves of RdB have longish fingers, the leaves of Nero 600M have even longer fingers (strikingly so).  Also, Nero 600M has a common leaf-shape variation -- a spade-like shape, no lobes.  Its not unusual to have both "spades" and "5 long fingers" on the same tree.

Anton -- Sorry, I misinterpreted your request.  I don't have any pix of my Nero 600Ms handy.  I'd suggest that you just search for pix of VdB.  As Steve noted, they seem identical, or nearly so.  You would not see any difference between the leaves on my Nero 600Ms and those pictured for Violette de Bordeaux.


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Joe D
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Reply with quote  #17 
I agree with Joe and would add that the Nero600m fingers have a bit of a point to them while the RdB fingers are more rounded off.  I am attaching a pic of my Nero600m which is coming back from winter damage.  Also attached is a pic of my RdB taken a year or two ago.

Attached Images
jpeg Nero600m.jpg (464.56 KB, 73 views)
jpeg IMG_2531.jpg (520.77 KB, 66 views)


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Steve MD zone 7a

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Reply with quote  #18 
My friend from England asked me if Nero 600m and Vallecalda are the same variety.
This is impossible because Vallecalda (by me named when by me sent in the States years ago) I discoverd (AFTER) that is very known variety in various regions of Italy with names of Piombinese, San Piero, or Corbo (Corbo in tuscanian, Corvo in Italian, Crow in English), EASILY distinguish for its blue color LONGITUDINALLY white STRIPPED, oval shape.
I not know what fig is Nero 600m.
I remember a Fig by me diffused in the States, it was by me found in Camonica Valley, in the Alps Mountains, extreme northern Italy. 
I named this variety Valle Negra (or Valle Nera).
In the argument of origin of these varieties I yet answered years ago, that the first was by me found in a yard of a very small village in the Appennine Mountains at level of 480 m above sea level, called Vallecalda from the name of the village (Swarm Valley); and the second was found in a very dark and step valley (very cold), near Breno, Camonica Valley in the Alps Mountains at level of 600 m above sea level.  Valle negra means Black valley. its fruits are perfectly round, NOT stripped.
The question of distinction was yet asked me and had answer time ago. 
I think the mess of names is produced by too much freely "edit" names.
It is evident that Vallecalda and Valle Negra are different names, and different plants.
It is possible that (as I do herein for indicate the level where I found it) the adding information may be has the effect of increase the mess, if someone creatively modifies names accordingly.
It is clear that the hundreds yeas old tree of Breno (Valle Negra) do not come from Bordeax. The French names; the French are naming places like Bordeaux as the origin of fig fig tree, I more modestly saw that the valley was dark.

The explication for my rersearches in mountains is that I look for good figs in cold sites; I think is not utile find figs for climates not existing where figs are really cultivate.
I've yet received notification that Valle Negra is a really good black fig.
I DO NOT conserved this fig, because I cannot plant dozens and dozens of figs that I gather around.
Regards,
Blastophaga


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drew51

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Reply with quote  #19 
I have Valle Negra, but it is a new plant, well it will produce this year. it has brebas now, and they are very dark. Thanks for bringing this plant out, as I['m in very cold Michigan. I protect in the winter, but they do grow well here in the summer. I love these kinds of finds, keep the good work up!
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Larsb

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Reply with quote  #20 
Blastophaga, now that was an excellent explanation about the origins of those cultivars. Thanks for the history and for clarifying the names and regions as it was quite very interesting to read this information!
I myself am trying out a Valle Negra that rooted this winter and is now a robust grower in a 3 gallon container. It seems to be a very healthy specimen! I plan to plant it in ground at a cooler, dark and windy area by my house when it becomes a bit larger. I also have a 2 year old Nero 600m which has one oblong breba that is in ground and Ronde de Bordeaux excellent round fruits for its first year in a large planter but now in ground with some breba on it now and putting out figlets for the main crop. I also have a Violette de Bordeoux which is a 4 year old that was just put in ground this year and has a lot of oblong breba crop.

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greenfig

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Reply with quote  #21 
Nero 600 and VdB are the same though.

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haslamhulme

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Reply with quote  #22 
Blastophaga, thank you for giving the background on those figs,I am sure the same was posted somewhere I read before regarding Nero 600m,maybe that was by you,I can't remember. now.

So,Vallecalda(found at 480M) is not Ronde de Bordeaux
Valle Negra( found at 600M is not Ronde De Bordeaux
Is Valle Negra the same as Nero 600M?,or are they just by fluke of geography from the same height above sea level?

LarsB you are growing both so I'm guessing you will get to compare.

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VeryNew2Figs

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Reply with quote  #23 
Nero 600 and VdB are the same.  Is there any difference between Nero 600 and Nero 600m?

Thanks

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Brunswick, Kadota, Ischia Green, Desert King, Osborne Prolific, Lattarula, Malta Black, Violette de Bordeaux, Texas Everbearing, Beall, Adriatic, Nolo Pink Eyed Lady,  Celeste, Nero 600 m, Violetta Bayernfeing, Marseilles Black VS, Sucrette, Scott's Black, Large Negronne, Croatian, Raspberry Latte, Alma, Longue D'Aout, Pel de Bou, Lloral, Black Triana, Tarantella, Dominick's, Sweet Diana, Bronx Italian Purple, Ciccio Nero, Ronde de Bordeaux (gifted - thank you),  Panache (gifted - thank you) Lyon France (gifted - thank you).

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Reply with quote  #24 
Nero600m and Nero600 are synonyms.  The preferred name is Nero600m.
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Steve MD zone 7a

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Reply with quote  #25 
The confusion about the two "valley" was done many years ago. I never said "Nero 600m".

The difference is absolutely this:
If is OVAL (long) white striped, for longitudinal laceration of the rather thick skin: is name (hystorically) is Piombinese, San Piero, Corbo, (by me named Vallecalda). You can find here the original painted image of begin of 1800. If you like I can translate the description from old italian of the author of that document. The decription written, read by me today, is perfect for define this fig.
This fig is perfect for transport and handlig (robust peel), is perfect for make ices (said by my friend that sells fruits for make ices), produces Brebas and Forniti (true-fig) the last (forniti) are a bit smaller. For me is a bit "rough" if not perfectly ripe, peel is robust, (good for transport).

The Valle Negra are absolutely round without lacerations, I do not know its real name, it is possible that was exported by French that dominate the Alps region and named Ronde de B. or vice-versa imported, or are absolutely different.
Of course I do not have possibility of change anything, but if possible is a good thing to respect the historical names and not create new ones.
P:S: In China said me that the Piombinese colour is not so dark.

I apologize to everyone if I made (at first) this mistake, but my knowledge 20 years ago was not that of now. fico_san_piero.jpg 



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OVERALL: information about origin-biology of F. carica. Varieties, and x: Smirne, Dottato, Inchario Preto, Rubado, Grise de Saint Jean, Rosario, Fiorone Bianco,, Brogiotto, Negretta, San Piero, Buffa, Bobbio, Ice Crystal, Mare1, Mare2, xDfic23 x23-1, x23-2., rooted cuttings. Limit for my orchard: 14 plants.
Larsb

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Reply with quote  #26 
Thanks again for clarifying the differences between the two Valles (valleys) and the picture of the Fico too Sergio. We appreciate your posts very much. I do not have the Valle Calda so can't compare that one to any of the others. Maybe some else on this forum that has one can chime in on it? I will report on what I have on this subject later in the year or when I'm able to get fruit from the Valle Negra. What I've noticed that my RdB from Bass has white stripes with cracks when they are ripe and ready to be picked.
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Blastophaga

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Reply with quote  #27 
Picture of Vallecalda/Piombinese, by me shot in Sardinia Isle, 4 Sept. 2014.
The typical shape in left fruit.
Forniti (true-fig), brebas are equal but larger. Corbo.JPG 
 


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OVERALL: information about origin-biology of F. carica. Varieties, and x: Smirne, Dottato, Inchario Preto, Rubado, Grise de Saint Jean, Rosario, Fiorone Bianco,, Brogiotto, Negretta, San Piero, Buffa, Bobbio, Ice Crystal, Mare1, Mare2, xDfic23 x23-1, x23-2., rooted cuttings. Limit for my orchard: 14 plants.
Larsb

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Reply with quote  #28 
Nice picture of the Vallecalda/Piombinese Sergio . Thanks for posting that! I might put that on my wish list too.
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Blastophaga

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Reply with quote  #29 
D'all Osso is (correctly) Dall'Osso. The ( ') is a shorting after of "dallo"  = of the.
The complete translation is (from Italian): "Of the bone".
Picture (hand paint) of fico Dall'Osso, 
Pomona Italiana, of Giorgio Gallesio, edited: 1817-1839. fico_fetifero.jpg   


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OVERALL: information about origin-biology of F. carica. Varieties, and x: Smirne, Dottato, Inchario Preto, Rubado, Grise de Saint Jean, Rosario, Fiorone Bianco,, Brogiotto, Negretta, San Piero, Buffa, Bobbio, Ice Crystal, Mare1, Mare2, xDfic23 x23-1, x23-2., rooted cuttings. Limit for my orchard: 14 plants.
Larsb

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Reply with quote  #30 
Blastophaga, you have a wealth of great information on the proper names and the historical facts. Like your nice paintings of the old world figs. Please keep feeding us with your great knowledge and experience from Europe on all the special finds that you can share here! Thank you very much!
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California central coast zone  9b
Blastophaga

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Reply with quote  #31 
Hystorical names for Vallecalda, (by me attributed a lot of year ago, in absence of better informations)
- Piombinese
- Corbo
- Abicone
- San Piero

"Hystorical" means dates (1817-1839).

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OVERALL: information about origin-biology of F. carica. Varieties, and x: Smirne, Dottato, Inchario Preto, Rubado, Grise de Saint Jean, Rosario, Fiorone Bianco,, Brogiotto, Negretta, San Piero, Buffa, Bobbio, Ice Crystal, Mare1, Mare2, xDfic23 x23-1, x23-2., rooted cuttings. Limit for my orchard: 14 plants.
dfoster25

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Reply with quote  #32 
Bumping for Vladsko


Welcome to the forum.

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mgginva

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Reply with quote  #33 
did not read posts - sorry 
but I can tell u that RdB and N 600 are not the same fig!!

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Michael in Virginia (zone 7a) Wish list: Tiberio, Campera, Calabacita, Cuello Dama Blanca
Vladsko

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Reply with quote  #34 
Thank you dfoster25.
Feigenbaum

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Reply with quote  #35 
First is my ValleCalda (di Borgofornari)

Second is Ronde de Bordeaux.



palazzophoto, your first pictures show only RdB.

Attached Images
jpeg 20160917_161540.jpg (289.44 KB, 40 views)
jpeg 20150903_174025.jpg (108.44 KB, 40 views)


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Hi from Germany! (Zone 7b) Christian

Blastophaga

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Reply with quote  #36 
Vallecalda (aka Piombinese, Corbo, or San Piero): the shape is typical.
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OVERALL: information about origin-biology of F. carica. Varieties, and x: Smirne, Dottato, Inchario Preto, Rubado, Grise de Saint Jean, Rosario, Fiorone Bianco,, Brogiotto, Negretta, San Piero, Buffa, Bobbio, Ice Crystal, Mare1, Mare2, xDfic23 x23-1, x23-2., rooted cuttings. Limit for my orchard: 14 plants.
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