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Rooting Summer Cuttings 201

you are leaving it on the sunny window where it will get some sun to process photosynthesis and provide energy to root better? and also generate alge to get the oxygen generated in that small mouth bottle where it will provide mini green house type environment?

pete

Hey Dan
 I am not a Newbie but a newbie to this method I have cuttings waiting to try this method. The shape of the bottle dose it limit the air and causes condensation? I have no clue but am going to try it I have the cuttings in a zip lock waiting to do this.
               thanks Paul

Dan,

Since all plants convert CO2 to oxygen, and so need CO2 to grow well, I'll say you are adding CO2 to the bottles to produce roots and leaves.

I know some friends that add CO2 to their aquarium water to produce better growth in their plants.

Am I correct?

Now this is what I like to see.........lurkers, new or shy people posting and asking questions & adding to this discussion. That is how we all learn. No question is a silly one. And the only dumb question is the one that is not asked.......... 

Some of you guys already can see where I am going with this method. Gene you are correct in what Algae is doing.  However, there are several tricks one needs to know about algae. I'll discuss that more later on in this thread.

Now please continue to "pay close attention" guys. THE DEVIL is in those little details. It can mean the difference between success or failure!!

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Clue Number 3.......

Now take your summer cuttings and put them in a plastic zip lock bag. Make sure to place them with their bud tips up. Put that bag in a quart size container as illustrated. Add an inch or two of water to the bag with the cuttings (tap water is OK....still experimenting with  distilled or rain water). Like I said I have tons more experiments to perform with this technique.

Now place those containers anywhere that is NOT in direct sunlight. Put it somewhere where you can see them, as you will need to change that water at least once a day. Twice a day if you have lots of cuttings in that bag. You must change the water often because you want to keep some dissolved "oxygen" in that water.

Now wait until the stems fall off of those cuttings.....then go on to the next step. Which will be revealed when we see more "newbies" posting in this tread. There are quite a few more tricks coming..........

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

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Dan,

Not going to spell out my secret, yet. But, let me ask you a question. Did you placed all the bottles behind the glass window at the same time? For example, each and every bottle is been placed there since two weeks ago or whenever.


Navid


P.S. I do have to attend two meetings shortly, so be patient.

Yes, those bottles were all placed on the window sill at the same time. Except for the one on the left.....that one is another on-going experiment on to itself.

However, there is still some "stuff" that we need to discuss before get to put them on the window sill and allow them to do their rooting thing....... 

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

Ok Dan.
If other forum members look closely to the bottles in the first pic. you see how most are less than half filled with water. And the bottles have a small opening. Also, you see lots of condensation inside the bottles. Each plays a role in rooting using this method, but there are few details that I DID left out too.
like I said, not going to spell give out my secret right away.


Eli, Your last post cracked me up :)


Navid

"water culture" orchids algae. If anyone wants to learn a little on their own while they are waiting then jam that into Google.

It is really tough to keep the algae going longterm. I wonder if you have selected a species of algae Dan? I encountered several different types but found the wispy bright green types produced lots of bubbles and did not become matted down, restricting gas exchange and killing the algae underneath.


OKAY Dan...I am a newbie too, I am! And I have cuttings waiting in the wings, help me Dan, help me.  Gives a new definition to Water Torture!   Mercy, have mercy!!

***** Newbie Alert *****

Do you wait till there is some callus formation at the heel of the cutting before moving to the bottles?

Ruvan

Hello Ruvan,

There is no need to wait for any callus to form.
----------------------------

Let's see where were we?

Well we obtained some summer cuttings from a fig tree that we wanted to propagate. And we followed the following advice:

"THE BEST time to take fig cuttings for summer rooting is "JUST BEFORE" the first or the second fig leaf flush They will have lots of energy to spare and will root very quickly. The big advantage to taking cuttings at this time, is that the internal pipeline is fully functional and not dormant. Taking cuttings just before a fig flush can make a big difference in rooting success."

See this link.......  http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5426383&highlight=flush

---------------------------------------------
Let's talk a bit about the "internal pipeline". What in the heck is that?

Think of it as an internal communication system that transfers both "information" (chemical signals), and nutrients/water from the bottom of a cutting to the top. When rooting "dormant" cuttings this internal pipeline is not as functional nor as active as it is when it actively growing. So we want to do little damage as possible to that pipeline when we take those cuttings.
We want to take advantage of the fact that the cutting is "alive" with a fully functional internal pipeline.

After you take your summer cuttings, get them started as soon as you get home with them. Cut the leaves off as was pictured....leaving the stems on the twigs. Put them in some water as was pictured. Now keep this in mind......IT IS VERY IMPORTANT for that water to always have some oxygen in it.  Those cuttings will be fine and WILL NOT BEGIN TO ROT.....if you make sure to keep some oxygen ALWAYS in that water.

And do not worry about mold. There will be absolutely no problems with mold if you follow the details of my method. ZERO MOLD ISSUES.......none, zip, NADA!!


Now how do we do we proceed and maintain that internal pipeline. Well it is very easy if you are rooting only a few cuttings as pictured. You just need to change the water often. For one or two cuttings....once a day is fine. For more cuttings, change the water more often. For many many cutting use an air pump (aquarium type for fish) to get air into that water. You can shake the bottle to get air/oxygen inside. An aerator on the kitchen faucet is good too. Just make sure that the water always has some oxygen in it and ALL WILL BE FINE.

Now we wait for those leaf stems to fall off BEFORE we proceed. Whenever we see one fall off.....we remove it from the water. When that stem falls off from the twig it will absorb oxygen out of the water....which we do not want it to do. Keeping those stems on the twig until they fall off helps in two significant ways. 1) It helps with the "chemical information system" that tells the twig it needs to form roots and leaves ASAP and 2) Those stems have a good supply of internal "energy reserves" that the twig will tap into "if needed" to form those new roots and leaves. DO NOT CUT THEM OFF......leave them on and use them to your advantage.

After those stems fall off. Put your cuttings (single cutting per bottle is best) into empty clear plastic soda or water bottles as was pictured.  Use bottles with a small sized mouth....see pictures. That is important for what will be happening inside of those bottles.

Now Clue Number 4............

Add water to the bottles to the level where about three inches of the twig will be under water (four inches is fine too.....not super critical). Use wire or bread wrap tries if necessary to hold the cutting in place if too short for the bottle. Pot those bottles where they will get some "direct morning sun" for a few hours a day. I put mine on an east facing window sill that is in my kitchen. They see direct and strong unfiltered sunlight for at least four hours per day.

Now why in the heck do we do this??? Well, there are some very specific reasons for doing just that. We are going to take advantage of some other "rooting properties" and turn them to our advantage. And all will eventually be revealed and a lot more "other tricks" will be discussed whenever other new "newbies" post into this thread.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus








Thanks, Dan! I have 5 cuttings from a friend 20 days ago. I am new to fig / planting, so I want to try different ways to see what is the best to root.

1 & 2: In a potting soil keeping them moist and cover with a clear plastic bag 3 hours direct sun light. (one of them the part under soil is turning black and some insects are living there)

3: Wrapped around with wet paper towel and keep it inside a zip lock bag 3 hours of direct sunlight (It's also turning black and mold)

4 & 5: in soil put inside a black garage bag which is put under direct light for 3 hours. (Haven't check them lately)

From what I see, I don't think they are going to root. I am following your thread, and will try it next summer. Thanks again!

Dan,
I suppose the three inches of water are just to hydrate the cutting trough the open channels while the new roots are forming above the water level, profiting from the damp environment inside the bottle. Actually, the environment should be about the same  as in the rooting zip-lock bag. The sun would help to create abundant vapors inside the bottle, which would be visible trough the sweating of the bottle  on the inside.

Dan, for Clue Number 3 & Number 4, Can you put up some pictures please? Thanks!

Mak,  I hate to say it.......but, you did everything wrong. I will explain why to you later. Do not give up. Rooting fig cutting is very easy to do if you follow some simple rules.

Boris, no......the environment inside of the bottle IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT that what is inside of a zip lock bag. One is an "open" rooting environment and the other is a "closed" rooting environment. So the rooting parameters can be quite different. Rules that apply to "open" do not necessarily apply to "close" rooting environments. This is very confusing to many people. I will try to explain the differences to you later.

-----------------------------
This method I describing in this thread  is EXTREMELY simple.....and it is not as complicated as it sounds. However, there are some "details" that need to be discussed so that people will obtain good results. Pay attention to those detalis and you will be up to your ears in new fig trees!!

More Clues/details tomorrow guys..........time for bed.

It is good to see new people engaging in this discussion and asking questions.

-----------------------------------------
FYI....the use of rooting hormones when summer rooting is covered in the "Summer Rooting 301 class". The use of Synergistic Algae is covered in the "Summer Rooting 401 class". This class is for advanced rooters only and will only be briefly touched upon in this tread.  And yes indeed there is even a "Rooting 501 class" and that one will remain secret for awhile. 

I have not yet discussed "Summer Rooting 101" either. That one is pretty much straight forward and very very simple to do. You plant your summer cuttings in 5 inch peat pots as soon as you see root initials develop on your cuttings.


Dan
Semper Fi-cus

Dan, just to get the details straight, in clue #3 you stated   " put them in a plastic zip lock bag. Make sure to place them with their bud tips up. Put that bag in a quart size container as illustrated. Add an inch or two of water to the bag....".  Why the bag in the jar and not directly in the jar? 

Just a wondering...
"gene"

dan - i cant believe mak will need to wait another year to start over..... that is too harsh

perhaps send him a pm with more details so he can get going now

on a more serious note, can you please indicate, more or less, how many days does each stage take? (apprx how long does it takes for the stems to fall?)

in general, would you say people in cold climate had missed the window on this season? 

Theman7676, I throught the fig is going to dormant soon, we can still root new fig tree at this time of this year? If so, I will have to look for more cuttings!

Dan, thanks for telling me that I did all for nothing! Can't wait for you method! By the way I also started growing lavender at the same time also no success. I guess I need to work for lowes in the nursery depArtment for awhile first before I plant anything else. :(

Dan,

I think you've bit off more than you can chew, with all the questions you're gonna have to answer......LOL!

Can you please explain more in detail:

The BEST time to take them is "just before or during a fig and leaf flush event".  (Fig trees in my area can flush three times a year.)  Look for wood that is lignified.
What is a flushing event?  And, what is lignified wood?

Thanks for these lessons.  I'm a long experienced gardener, but now I feel like a novice.

Dan,

in clue no 3 you say:
Now take your summer cuttings and put them in a plastic zip lock bag. Make sure to place them with their bud tips up. Put that bag in a quart size container as illustrated.

 I CAN NOT SEE ANY PICTURES! Am I missing something obvious?

Karla

Thanks Karla,

The picture should be there now. There is a known "bug" that sometimes causes previously posted pictures to disappear.

Gene,  that picture is there now and it should be clearer what I meant.

Mak & theman, NEVER EVER apply heat to any "closed" rooting environment. Added heat simply IS NOT needed and that added heat often will cause cuttings to mold and rot. Don't add any heat.......

Udamman,

We have a mixed audience here. Some with lots of experience in rooting fig cuttings and some with very little. And yes that can make it more difficult. However, as I stated this is VERY EASY so don't get lost in all those details. I believe that I need to point them out because that is what often means the difference between success or failure.  It is good to see new people getting involved in these discussions and I for one want to encourage that.

In short....lignified means the "soft" flexible green new growth has turned into a stiffer "hard" wood. Re read what I posted in that link provide earlier to learn more about the fig leaf/flush cycle and if you still have questions after re- reading, ask your questions in that thread. Also you can do a search on the word "lignified" to find out what was previously written on that subject.  Look up in the upper right hand corner of this page and you will see a "SEARCH" link just above your forum name.
-----------------------------------------------

To sum up this fig  rooting method thus far and with very few details...........

"Get you some summer cuttings. Take the leafy part off of the stems. Put them in water until the stems fall off. Then put them individually in water bottles on your window sill until the roots form."

Now that saves a lot of time and words....);>) 

It really is ALMOST that simple....but not quite.

--------------------------------------------
Now where were we? Oh yeah, we had placed our summer cuttings in an area where they will see some direct morning sun. There are some very specific reasons for putting them there where they will see some sunlight.

Well the reason for us doing that is we are going to take advantage of a particular rooting property I have discussed on many occasions on the fig forums. Namely that "the kind of roots" and leaves that form on a ficus carica twig is greatly affected by the rooting environment under which they formed and developed. We are gong to take advantage of this "adaptability" function of the new roots and leaves that we will grow in our controlled rooting environment. AND we are going to take advantage of the fact that those cuttings are still ALIVE (not dormant).....with their internal pipeline still fully functional. 

----------
You will leave those cuttings in those bottles on that window sill "until you see 'root initials' form on your cutting".  If you do not know what root initials are.....please do a search on those words. And you will find lots of information written on this subject.

It may take a week or two....sometimes earlier, it just depends on some other variables too.  During that time it is VERY important that you keep dissolved oxygen in that water. Did I say very important? Yes indeed I did say VERY IMPORTANT.  I did not say a little important. I think I said very important.

It is YOUR choice how you want to accomplish that. I usually just remove the cutting from the bottle. Put my finger over its mouth and shake the bottle vigorously. That will cause air/oxygen to dissolve in that water. I do that twice a day. Now we wait for roots entitles to form on out cutting.......then we go on to the next step. And we will know exactly when those root intials will form as we are adding oxygen to that water twice a day. Right????


Dan
Semper Fi-cus



Thank you Dan,

it is clear now.

Karla

Dan,


From Clue number 1:
1.  Is there something that I need to look for to determine when a leaf flush is about to happen?
2.  Do you start your water bottles when you put your cuttings in a bag, so that the algae can get a head start?

From Clue number 3:
1.  Do you put any water in the quart jar or are you just using that for support and protection in case the bag leaks?
2.  What is the purpose of the plastic bag in the quart jar?
3.  How long does it normally take for the stems to fall off?

From Clue number 4:
1.  Have you experimented with water temperatures at this stage?  Example:  Putting some bottles in direct sunlight for a few hours outside and comparing those to the ones inside in the window?   Outdoor temps vs Indoor temps


About how long does it take to see root initials on the cuttings once they are in the plastic bottles in the window?

From Clue number 1:
1.  Is there something that I need to look for to determine when a leaf flush is about to happen?
 
In the spring this occurs just before bud break. In the summer this occurs during the month of July in my area. You will see certain parts of the tree resuming their vigorous new growth during one of the flush cycles. When you see that on the tree......look for one that has not yet opened its tip bud.
 
 
2.  Do you start your water bottles when you put your cuttings in a bag, so that the algae can get a head start?
 
Not going to discuss how to use Algae in this thread. That will be too complicated for most people, I will discuss that subject later in another thread. As a young chemist I spent a good bit of  time dealing with algae problems......so I know more than the average Joe about Algae. It can be used to one's advantage during rooting. But, it can be problematic too if yoiu don't know what you are doing.

From Clue number 3:
1.  Do you put any water in the quart jar or are you just using that for support and protection in case the bag leaks?
 
Water is only in the bag. The jar is only for support and if the bag leaks. The bag stays OPEN and not closed.
 
2.  What is the purpose of the plastic bag in the quart jar?
 Creates a high humidity and "open" environment. Do not close the bag.
 
3.  How long does it normally take for the stems to fall off?
It depends on the variety. Usually a week or two.

From Clue number 4:
1.  Have you experimented with water temperatures at this stage?  Example:  Putting some bottles in direct sunlight for a few hours outside and comparing those to the ones inside in the window?   Outdoor temps vs Indoor temps
 
Nope. I have literally tons of experiments to conduct before I am satisfied with this particular method. It works well enough to begin sharing the method at this point.


About how long does it take to see root initials on the cuttings once they are in the plastic bottles in the window?
 
Not long....remember the cuttings were in some oxygenated water before they were placed in the window.
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Next clue......
 
When you see root initials form on those cuttings. You can place them in peat pots and root as I have directed in other thteads/posts.
 
HOWEVER, we will not do that. We will do something completely different. We are going to take advantage of the fact that this is a summer cutting. We are going to make photosynthesis work to our advantage during this rooting process. And we will produce some roots and leaves that are almost already harden off.  We are going to take advantage of the "adaptability" of ficus Carica to its immediate environment.
 
Much more later......
 
Dan
Semper Fi-cus
 

were we not already using photosynthesis when we placed the bottles in the window to catch the morning sun? that is when this process happens just in the early part of the day. next thing i am no scientist but i would think that during this process there will be some type of gas forming so closing it would stop any oxogen from entering, no? did i also miss something? i thought we were changing the water every day but you say shake the bottle couple times a day. i'm confused about the water. you have to remember i'm not the sharp tack in the box. luke

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