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Rouge Robin attacks house windows

Now, it seems, you are calling me an idiot Jason. Maybe I am reading to deeply. But if you are, then you are trying to gain power over me, and you are bullying, name calling is bullying, textbook bullying. And society does view an uneven, over-reactive response as bullying, imagine if a chihuahua nipped a mastiff and the mastiff ripped off the little dog's face. A person and a songbird is no different, find me the real danger to the person and I will tolerate the notion that you guys are running around willy-nilly killing little birds a little better. Of course this is all just talk so no-one is actually guilty of anything and no real harm has been done as of yet. But i am going to oppose it, when I have the time.

Here is an excerpt on bullying from Wikipedia, just so we are all on the same page as to what it is and can best avoid  it here on the forum:

Research indicates that adults who bully have personalities that are authoritarian, combined with a strong need to control or dominate.[28] It has also been suggested that a prejudicial view of subordinates can be particular a risk factor.[29]

Further studies have shown that envy and resentment may be motives for bullying.[30] Research on the self-esteem of bullies has produced equivocal results.[31][32] While some bullies are arrogant and narcissistic,[33] others can use bullying as a tool to conceal shame or anxiety or to boost self esteem: by demeaning others, the abuser him/herself feels empowered.[34]

Researchers have identified other risk factors such as depression[35] and personality disorders,[36] as well as quickness to anger and use of force, addiction to aggressive behaviors, mistaking others' actions as hostile, concern with preserving self image, and engaging in obsessive or rigid actions.[37] A combination of these factors may also be cause of this behavior.[38]

It is often suggested that bullying behavior has its origin in childhood. As a person who is inclined to act as a bully matures, his or her related behavior patterns will often also mature. Schoolyard pranks and 'rough-housing' may mature into more subtle, yet equally effective adult level activities such as administrative end-runs, well planned and orchestrated attempts at character assassination, or other less obvious, yet equally forceful forms of coercion.

"If aggressive behaviour is not challenged in childhood, there is a danger that it may become habitual. Indeed, there is research evidence, to indicate that bullying during childhood puts children at risk of criminal behaviour and domestic violence in adulthood." [20]

Bullies may bully because they themselves have been the victim of bullying.[39][40][41] There is also evidence that bullies have a much higher likelihood to be incarcerated in the future.[42]

Characteristics of typical bystanders

Often bullying takes place in the presence of a large group of relatively uninvolved bystanders. In many cases, it is the bully's ability to create the illusion that he or she has the support of the majority present, that instills the fear of 'speaking out' in protestation of the bullying activities being observed by the group. Unless the 'bully mentality' is effectively challenged in any given group in its earlier stages, often the 'bully mentality' becomes an accepted norm within the group.[43] [44] In such groups where the 'bully mentality' has been allowed to become a dominant factor in the group environment, a steady stream of injustices and abuses often becomes a regular and predictable group experience. Such a toxic environment often remains as the status-quo of the group for an extended period of time, until somehow the bullying-cycle should eventually come to an end. Bystanders to bullying activities are often unable to recognize the true cost that silence regarding the bullying activities has to both the individual and to the group. A certain inability to fully empathize is also usually present in the typical bystander, but to a lesser degree than in the bully. The reversal of a 'bully mentality' within a group is usually an effort which requires much time, energy, careful planning, coordination with others, and usually the undertaking of a certain 'risk'.

It is the general unwillingness of bystanders to expend these types of energies and to undertake these types of risks that bullies often rely upon in order to maintain their monopolies of power. Until or unless at least one individual who has at least some abilities to work with others, opts to expend whatever energies may be needed to reverse the 'bully mentality' of the group, the 'bully mentality' is often perpetuated within a group for months, years or even decades.[45] [46] Bystanders who have been able to establish their own 'friendship group' or 'support group' have been found to be far more likely to opt to speak out against bullying behavior than those who have not.[47] [48]

Intervention

Despite the large number of individuals that do not agree with bullying practices, there a very few that will intervene on behalf of the victim. These individuals are labeled bystanders and unfortunately usually tend to lean toward the bully’s side. In 85% of bullying incidents, bystanders are involved in teasing the victim or egging on the bully.[49]

However, in most bullying incidents, bystanders usually do nothing. If the bully faces no obstruction from the people around, it gives permission to continue behaving badly.[50] There are a wide variety of reasons why children choose not to intervene. Typically they worry that they will make the situation worse or risk becoming the next victim, due to the fear that children experience as the bystanders, which is a direct cause of the decline of anti-bullying attitudes. This points to the urgency for a better understanding of children’s attitudes to bullying and the factors that seem to predict these attitudes.[49]

Researchers have been analyzing the just-world belief theory to help understand the decline of anti-bullying attitudes. "This is the idea that people get what they deserve and deserve what they get." The study determined that children do seek to understand, justify, and rectify the different injustices they come across in everyday life. However further research is needed to link the two together.[49]

Characteristics of targets of chronic bullying

While on the surface, chronic bullying may appear to be simply the actions of an 'aggressor' (or aggressors) perpetrated upon an unwilling 'targeted individual' (or individuals), on a certain deeper level, for it to succeed, the bullying-cycle must also be viewed as necessarily including a certain chronic inadequate response on the part of the target (or targets). That is, a response that is seen by both the bully and the target as insufficient to prevent the chronic bullying-cycle from repeating itself between the given individuals. A suitable response to any given attempt at bullying varies with the occasion, and can range from totally avoiding or ignoring a bully to turning a prank around so that it makes a 'pranksteree' out of the would be prankster,[51] to even summoning legal intervention. Those individuals or groups who are capable of reacting to initial bullying attempts in ways that tend to sufficiently discourage potential bullies from repeated attempts, are less likely to be drawn into this destructive cycle. Those individuals or groups who most readily react to stressful situations by perceiving themselves as 'victims' tend to make the most suitable candidates for becoming the 'targets' of chronic bullying.[52]

Under some circumstances targets may be chosen in what may be a completely random or arbitrary process, especially in groups in which the 'bully mentality' may have already succeeded in achieving domination within the group. In such groups the defense mechanisms of the entire group may have already been 'broken down', and therefore the targeting of individuals no longer requires the seeking out of 'certain personality types' to become the 'next target'. The reversal of such chronic and well entrenched bullying behavior in such groups sometimes requires a much more carefully planned, coordinated, determined and multi-individual response from a would-be target than in a group in which either the 'bully mentality' may not (yet) prevail, or ideally in a group that may have already taken a pro-active preventative approach towards bullying.[53] [54]

Typically the bullying-cycle must include both an act of aggression on the part of a potential bully, and a response by a potential target that is perceived by both as a certain sign of submission. The cycle is only set in motion when both of these two essential elements are present. Once both of these two elements manifest themselves, the bullying cycle often proceeds to feed on itself over time, and may last for months, years, or even decades. The cycle is most easily broken at its initial onset, however it can also be broken at any later point in its progression by simply removing either one of its two essential ingredients. While group involvement may seem to complicate bullying activities, the act is most often an implied agreement in principle between a chief bully or instigator and the target that the one has 'submitted' to the other. In the act of bullying the bully attempts to make a public statement to the effect of: 'See me and fear me, I am so powerful that I have the ability to inflict pain upon the intended target at the time and manner of my choice without having to pay any consequences.' Should an intended target exhibit a 'defeated attitude' in response to chronic bullying, then the bullying is likely to continue. In circumstances where a 'bullying pattern' has not yet fully established itself, should the intended target respond with a clear attitude of self-confidence that somehow demonstrates that the bully's attempt to dominate is futile, then the bullying attempt will often quickly diminish or end all-together. Established patterns of bullying may require greater and more persistent effort to reverse. Institutions may reinforce bullying; for example, by telling targets of bullies they're responsible for defending themselves, but then forcing them to go to school unarmed. [55] [56]


I am not saying anyone here is a bully, at all. If that excerpt does not describe you then there should be no reason to be offended or defensive. Sometimes people have bad days and bad ideas, sometimes people change for the better, and sometimes for the worse. Sometimes people reconsider where they stand after they look at what they are stepping in!


I liked your story by the way Peg, birds are crazy sometimes when they choose such formidable opponents. Maybe you should repost it fresh, I am sorry for my part here and your unintentional involvement.

Peg,

I had this little creature attack my dinning room window mornings and evenings for nearly 3 months. I think he saw his reflection in the window and attacked the 'inturder' too near the nest...it was entertainment (or torture) for my cats so I let him be. ;-)



Ignore the radio in the background...forgot to turn the sound down.

Sue

peg,


i had a robin do the same thing last summer for half the summer....it would fly so hard into the large glass window....that the window will shake (8x8) and the bird will knock itself down and lay flat on the ground for good 10 mins!

brent,

i think you do not understand the difference between tolerance, bullying, and self defense.

tolerance is when bird comes and get few of your fig, even peck over 50% of your figs and you let it be. or even flying over you over and over and runs into your windows you let it be.

bullying is when you harrase bird that is not doing anything to you.

self defense is when stopping a bird that is attacking your kids when your kids are not doing any harm to that bird or that bird's chicks and nest.

maybe you are one of those saints that will watch birds pecking your kids eyes out or drew blood and say how cute that is. well.. i'm not.

different people, different ideas. that's fine with me.

pete

Personally I think all chihuahua dogs should be eaten by English mastiffs. Little yappy ankle bitters deserve a good puntting. If your dog makes a snack for a cat it's not a dog. And btw mastiffs are very gentle non aggressive dogs unlike a chihuahua. It is just Darwinism not being a bully. If a python eats a rabbit in the south affrican bush do you call the snake a bully? I would think not.

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  • BLB

It's obvious to me that all parties involved in this debate are intelligent and caring people, therefore I am hoping you will consider that communicating certain ideas via the internet puts one at a disadvantage due to the inability to hear voice inflection, see facial features that might give a clue as to the nature of the communications etc. There can be subtle differences in meaning with subtle changes of voice inflection hence a little joke or sarcastic remark intended to add humor or color to a conversation can sound like an insult. Evidence "These pretzels are making me thirsty" Remember the Seinfeld episode where they all repeated that line in many different ways?? Even "hello" can sound aggressive if intoned in a certain way. I think we are all friends on this forum, at least it is obvious that we all share an interest so maybe we can accept that no harm was intended by anyone, just a little miscommunication?  I don't believe anyone here really wants to harm a bird for fun or wants a kid harmed by a bird or would stand by if either occured. Who hasn't had a misunderstanding with family or friends due to an email?     

Well said, BLB.

Barry don't call me an intellect my people invented whiskey and were almost wiped out by the potato. How smart are they? Lol

Yes BLB, thank you.

I really meant no harm and was not looking for a fight. It was a little joke and really a result of much self restraint as to what to say here, because obviously i was upset enough to say something (even after the squirrel incident). I thought the notion that there are animal protectors out there is a good reminder for someone who is thinking of killing a protected/harmless animal. Posting links to pet-abuse.com is not so mild but maybe my intentions would have been clearer from the onset, I doubt they would have been received well either.

People will turn in their own spouses sometimes in animal cruelty cases, and try to imagine your own child telling you they just saw a neighbor killing an animal. And of course children do read the forum here too. All important things to remember.

So to be clear, I am saying that songbirds are not dangerous, outside of exposure to their droppings. I think their capabilities have been greatly exaggerated to justify such cruel treatment, there is absolutely no way a robin or catbird can destroy an eyeball. A scratch and possible a retinal tare if it was a solid hit directly in the eye, which has to be more rare than bb gun accidents of equal damage. I have asked for proof of the danger several times now and only received opinions and assertions on the matter. Dial 911 and see what they say about a robin defending it's nest and your legal recourse in the area. If it were a raccoon or fox or bat menacing, 911 would no doubt instruct you to kill the animal if you can do it safely or keep it in sight until help arrives. Because those animals should have a natural fear of humans and are rabies carriers. Rabies is fairly endemic to the US, around here there are 20 or more reports per county per year and it is a deadly disease. 

Defending a nest is natural bird behavior so there is no cause for alarm. I understand the desire to protect one's family and respect others for wanting to do so as well.


In light of a recent study showing the effects of French fries and potato chips on the American waistline, maybe the lowly potato is a more formidable foe than anyone realized! Perhaps all we need to defeat the dread robins are bird feeders supplied with deep-fried snacks and little couches; the avian scourge will soon lack the energy to do more than just lounge there, clicking their remotes at any intruding humans. Now I know how to protect my figs! Bird netting, forsooth!

Oh, the Celt. Imagine the chihuahua has puppies and not a typical chihuahua and the puppies are killed as well. I don't know dog breeds that well and forgot about natural behaviors. You are right that it is not the best analogy.

I would call the snake hungry.

@ The_celt
I got a Yorkie!

Care to come by here and do a little punting?

Just call when you are about two minutes away.

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  • BLB

Celt,

They are my people too and they be some of the fight'nst folks in the world. I'm sticking with sweet potatoes and rum.

Since when are yourkies the same a chChihuahua as far as I know yourkies are terriers no relation to the purse dogs of pretentious people such as paris hilton and "tinkerbell" They were bred to be ratters not purse rats. I have an airdale and 2 frenchies myself. I was making a point about the analogy used by Brent is all. Plus a 16 hour drive to tx to see a yourkshire terrier is a little out of my way.

UH Huh   UH HUH

Brent, there is imminent danger which you are failing to recognize.  You're equating "danger" it to "direct damage" from the bird, which is only a fraction of the possibility.  For example, take this story:

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=104570

Quote:
The owner of the salon says it would all be funny if it weren't for her daughter's more serious injuries from the attack. "She starts running, trips over her own feet. And she face plants down on the ground, her elbow was bleeding, her knee was bleeding, her side was bleeding, she was a mess," says Angela Johnson.


This could have been much worse.  The bird could have chased the human out into oncoming traffic.  The child could have fallen down a set of stairs and died.  I'm not calling you an idiot, but I think it would be ignorant to only take into consideration how much "direct injury" an attacking bird can cause and not show the potential death or serious injury that can be caused by a bird simply attacking a person via the required reaction.

Brent, your last statement still continues to can, insult and troll on people in this thread who insist on protecting their property and loved ones.  You could have just left it at "agree to disagree" but you continue to guilt trip and force your opinion on others, which is going to do nothing but illicit reaction. 

And I will reiterate - I know my local and state laws.  In the state of GA, I am legally allowed to kill any non-protected species which are an imminent threat to my family or property.  I went and looked all of this up when I began dealing with my squirrels problem, looking into what permits are required, when a permit is required and so on.  There is a provision in GA that allows termination of any animal that is actively damaging property or self.

Jason, Good post.

When I started this post I only wanted to point out that a rogue robin isn't necessarly protecting a nest. I have over an acre of manacured lawn
without trees or shrubs that daily accomodates dozens of robins picking bugs etc., both male and female. If this bird was normal why wasn't he attacking
the other males in the flock instead of his reflection in the windows?

I don't know how birds think, if they do, but I hope your thread will be the end of this discussion. Its getting out of hand.

Peg




Out of respect for Peg I will cease this conversation and let Jason have the last words. Anyone reading can judge who is doing what for themselves.

Thank you.

Peg

Sorry about that, Peg.  I know it wasn't your intent for the thread to go the direction it did, and I didn't intend to be one of the four wheels that participated in rolling it there.

I'm sorry Peg!


Regards

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