Single node cuttings experiment

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Charlie

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Posted 1414152179	Reply with quote #1

Read a few other posts about this and wanted to give it a go. A few of the larger limbs on Unk Lake Spur had long node spacing so these 24 were cut from them, leaving a couple inches of stem on either side of the node, ends dipped and buried horizontal in potting mix with only the bud slightly exposed on 10/19. A couple of them look like the buds are starting to swell. No mold so far. The potting mix is ever so slightly moist. These are in a big tote with a lid and are uncovered daily. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

FiggyFrank

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Posted 1414152662	Reply with quote #2

Good luck, Charlie. Looking forward to the progress updates. __________________ Frank zone 7a - VA

SoniSoni

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Posted 1414167494	Reply with quote #3

I think you're on to a good technique. Good luck. __________________ Soni GA. 7-8. seeking Galicia Negra, Bianchi Guido, Violette de Sollies, Emerald Strawberry

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1414168677	Reply with quote #4

I don't see why it wouldn't work.

cyberfarmer

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Posted 1414185974	Reply with quote #5

I've heard of a lot of people dividing cuttings in half (usually more than one node). I have hesitated to do it myself because my assumption is that with a larger cutting, there is more stored energy and (I assume) a higher success rate. I figure that if I get a higher success rate with larger cuttings, I will soon be able to make more air layers (which have an even higher success rate than cuttings). Anyone ever done enough "tiny" cuttings to say whether or not size of cutting affects success rate? __________________ Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1414190513	Reply with quote #6

The reason I don't do Single Node rooting is because my goal is to bring up bush looking fig trees. Single node will give a single branch where multiNode cutting will give multiple branches taking same time of rooting/growth.

americanfiglover

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Posted 1414195454	Reply with quote #7

Good luck. I hope all goes well. You have enough future figs to start a small orchard. __________________ Jarrett Spokane, WA ZONE 6A Proudly Serving in the United States Armed Forces, 2009-Present Everyone should have a green thumb Figs: Nero600m

Charlie

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Posted 1414195657	Reply with quote #8

Quote: Originally Posted by americanfigboy Good luck. I hope all goes well. You have enough future figs to start a small orchard. A start yes, thanks. Looking for some land... __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

cyberfarmer

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Posted 1414195792	Reply with quote #9

Quote: Originally Posted by Aaron4USA The reason I don't do Single Node rooting is because my goal is to bring up bush looking fig trees. Single node will give a single branch where multiNode cutting will give multiple branches taking same time of rooting/growth. In that case, single nodes are for me. Even when I want bush form, I still only allow one trunk. The cuttings in my bin keep sprouting from every node which is a waste for me. Time for another rooting experiment. __________________ Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )

Otmani007

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Posts: 573

Posted 1414197063	Reply with quote #10

Experimenting with something new is always exciting. Good luck, Charlie. Please keep us posted on your progress and findings. __________________ Dallas, TX - Zone 8a Wish List: Col de Dame Blanche, Brogiotto Bianco, Sicilian White, Panache Otmani

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1414199411	Reply with quote #11

Paul, Absolutely, specially if you have an expensive cutting in hand or hard to come by types... Furthermore if both ends are sealed with wax they have most chance to survive with no rot, no matter how long it takes to root. Sometimes they root faster than they open leaves and sometimes they open leaves before they root. I find it very beneficial keeping them in the fridge drawer few weeks for callusing. After callusing they are much easier and safer to root all cuttings, specially if Single Node.

Charlie

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Posted 1414199889	Reply with quote #12

When you say "single branch" does it mean to say it will grow straight up and have no limbs? __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1414201362 · Edited	Reply with quote #13

Well, 1- if you have one node , it will sprout one shoot but that one, on it's term, can brach out from sides. 2- if you have several nodes, you have several shoots to come up, on their own term, they will branch our sideways too. Something like this... pardon the crappy work, i had to do it on my phone and save it to my laptop to bring it here.

Charlie

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Posted 1414265549 · Edited	Reply with quote #14

Added four Sicilian White. To add a bit of drama to the experiment, the potting mix for these is 50% TGA super soil. Surely a bud break on one of the Unk Lake Spur. Pic taken right after spraying a tad of water. This soil is what I had planted the dried Turkish figs in a couple months ago and they never sprouted. Now there are some tiny somethings sprouting. Will let them stay and see if they are little fig trees. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

Charlie

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Posted 1414881943	Reply with quote #15

Every cutting is budding out. This one has a root trying to go straight up! __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

nycfig

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Posted 1414882693	Reply with quote #16

Very cool, Charlie. That tree really wants to grow! __________________ Danny NYC Z7a It's all about the figs! Facebook: NYCfigs Buying Fig Trees and Cuttings From the Internet

cyberfarmer

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Posted 1414884677	Reply with quote #17

After seeing your work, I took a single bud branch tip off one of my trees and stuck it in a cup with Pro-Mix. It is growing. One for one. That's 100% success rate! __________________ Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )

ADelmanto

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Posted 1414888407	Reply with quote #18

I've thought about laying a cutting sideways and letting the entire thing root. After a while, when good growth is observed from every node, cut in between the nodes to separate them. Just an idea at this point. __________________ https://www.facebook.com/From-The-Ground-Up-403313193085649/

Charlie

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Posted 1414890338	Reply with quote #19

Quote: Originally Posted by ADelmanto I've thought about laying a cutting sideways and letting the entire thing root. After a while, when good growth is observed from every node, cut in between the nodes to separate them. Just an idea at this point. Aaron sent me a cutting of Armenian small eye variant. There were already root nodules forming along the entire length so that is what I did. Pretty good looking so far. This pot was never covered, just sprayed around the cutting with a couple squirts from a spray bottle every other day and it sat on my kitchen table out in the open. This got me thinking so I did some searching. There's a few threads on "the smallest cutting" or "one node wonders" and some others worth reading. When I did that Armenian it was a shot in the dark and I didn't know about burying the whole cutting. I was sick of losing a bunch of cuttings to mold and just did it. It taught me I was using WAY too wet of media. There hasn't been a smidgen of mold and the gnats do not seem to be at all interested. I'm thinking now that fig cuttings should be treated almost like cactus. Barely damp. If this comes to success I doubt I will ever try anything else. Nearly done doing 100 more, mostly single node cuttings today from the recent trades and purchases. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1414905193	Reply with quote #20

Charlie, You are so right. think that's what I am going to do also from now on. I'll dumped the mix before planting the cuttings and no watering on top of them , just cover them and let them be, until the roots hit the walls of the clear container then I'll just transplant them in 1G nursery pots. Overwatering must be the cause of gnads, melting leaves, fungus, mildew and finally rot. (The Misery Pack!)

andreas

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Posted 1414908513	Reply with quote #21

Great job Charlie, ill try rooting cuttings your way. i have killed them every other way, so this will be my last atempt at rooting. i can airlayer with no fail, and graft... i just cant do cuttings LOL ;-)) __________________ andreas-patras Patra Peloponnisos Greece zone..9a

figherder

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Posted 1414929049	Reply with quote #22

Charlie you make it look easy :) Nice job __________________ Jeff in zone 5b Wish list St rita,Vista,Sal's G,De la Reina, preto, Sport and pops purple red from Bellaclare, Planera Malta Black, Navid Unk Dark Greek,

MGorski

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Posted 1414930806	Reply with quote #23

A smart way to stretch limited genetics, I'm guessing you just have to be careful not to let it get too dry as it is so near the surface. I agree about barely moist, it's so easy to rot a fig cutting. Mike in Hanover, VA __________________ Zone-7, previously Mescalito

Charlie

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Posted 1414938753	Reply with quote #24

Here's a bunch more single node cuttings of various varieties, set into styro bowls, each having a drain hole and covered with clear solo cups, three vent holes in top of each. The mix is 50/50 of moist potting mix and fresh, moist worm castings. I got these bowls and cups at the local convenience food mart. The solo cups sort of just "snap" in fairly secure. They can be picked up by the cup and stay together but easy to snap off. Did not water any at all. The mix seems moist enough. The vent holes were melted into ten cups at a time with a piece of clothes hanger, heated by a propane torch. Now the total of 100 are in the bright room... I don't know what those horizontal bars are showing up in the photo's I take in the bright room. Must be something to do with the 1000W metal halide light. The cups are all covered now with aluminum foil to keep light off of them until we get some roots. Temps in the bright room are about 80 F during on time and 72 ish at night. The door stays open and ceiling fan keeps from excess heat buildup. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

MGorski

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Posted 1414940274	Reply with quote #25

That's a benifit to running a MH or HPS light in the winter, heat. If you can run it at night, even better as temperatures drop. Mike in Hanover, VA __________________ Zone-7, previously Mescalito

Charlie

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Posted 1414941725	Reply with quote #26

Quote: Originally Posted by MGorski That's a benifit to running a MH or HPS light in the winter, heat. If you can run it at night, even better as temperatures drop. Mike in Hanover, VA After a trial period I may do that. Trial as in the light/ballast. Two ballasts, five 1000W MH bulbs and one 1000w HPS bulbs were given to me four years ago by a local fella and have sat in my garage ever since. I'm not sure about the safety of them. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

Charlie

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Posted 1414958473	Reply with quote #27

More addition to the experimenting. These are the last of Unk Lake Spur, cut into single node, ends dipped in food grade cheese wax. A thin layer of potting mix with worm castings was leveled onto the bottom of the container and the cuttings laid on... Then they were covered with a leveled layer of mix and more cuttings added. These were all just covered loosely and not packed at all, no extra water, lid of container on and into the dark closet of the bright room. No different really than cuttings in moss, method-wise I guess, other than being biologically active with fresh castings. FIGure the roots will be easy to see from the bottom when they start and then they will all get put into pots, well, the ones that make roots. Maybe none of them will make roots. Maybe they all will or some might lol. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

MGorski

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Posted 1414965883	Reply with quote #28

Worm castings are great, are these purchased or do you have a worm bed? Good luck, I hope it works, I want to try too. Mike in Hanover, VA __________________ Zone-7, previously Mescalito

Charlie

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Posted 1414971058	Reply with quote #29

Quote: Originally Posted by MGorski Worm castings are great, are these purchased or do you have a worm bed? Good luck, I hope it works, I want to try too. Mike in Hanover, VA These are worm castings I purchased from Larry Hall to try them out. There's a link to his shop in my recent blog post at the end, very well done castings and great deal. I do keep a few worms. At one time had very many that got washed away in a flood. Need to ramp it up with all these fig trees on the way. Have been sifting a wood chip pile and piling it up in the back yard for them to get going really good for next year. My yard is full of georgia jumpers, a native that really like old wood chips and a few european night crawlers. I also keep a few in this homemade vermi tumbler, worm bin and casting harvester hybrid... The thing works pretty good as long as you don't fill it too full and keep it tumbled about once a week. Wheel barrow under and give it a few rotations. If I were to make another it would have a better way to tumble, some hand-holds or something. Totally does away with the need to handle bedding to get the castings and aerates the bedding. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

zone5figger

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Posted 1415013215	Reply with quote #30

Are your worm casting sterilized? I used my own(worms') castings as an ingredient in a potting mix that I did some rooting in last year, and believe that was the source of the nematodes that ruined a batch for me. Cuttings started rooting, then fizzled out and I saw numerous white, threadlike worms getting into the cambium layer of the cuttings. I'm keeping it sterile this year! __________________ Jesse- zone 5, 1000' elevation

Charlie

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Posted 1415016316	Reply with quote #31

Quote: Originally Posted by zone5figger Are your worm casting sterilized? I used my own(worms') castings as an ingredient in a potting mix that I did some rooting in last year, and believe that was the source of the nematodes that ruined a batch for me. Cuttings started rooting, then fizzled out and I saw numerous white, threadlike worms getting into the cambium layer of the cuttings. I'm keeping it sterile this year! No, I would never use sterilized castings. That would be fairly pointless except for possibly some soluble nutrients left after sterilization. Enchytraeids, or pot worms are usually the little white worms associated with compost and worm bins and usually mistaken for nematodes. They aid in the decomposition process by processing rotting material. Healthy worm castings contain nothing harmful to living plant matter. To venture a "guess", I would guess there was another issue with your cuttings dying and the pot worms were just doing what they do. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

MGorski

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Posted 1415030961	Reply with quote #32

I used to raise worms also, and there certainly is a lot of life feeding on the organic matter. My castings were always very dense, never nice and light like the purchased product. I imagine this was due to the type of bedding, usually leaves and rabbit manure, and a diet primarily of kitchen scraps. The resulting castings made a great tea, but not too good for creating a fluffy, airy propagation mix. Mike in Hanover, VA __________________ Zone-7, previously Mescalito

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1415038767 · Edited	Reply with quote #33

I have 2 questions. 1. SO, to make a warm casting all I have to do is collect few types of rainworms into a container and start feeding them? I see those jumpers all over my backyard and I see calmer ones too. 2. What type of feeding makes a fluffy casting? Edit: Actually don't answer it here since this thread is for Charlie's single node cuttings. I am starting a new thread on this subject.

joann1536

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Posted 1415039212	Reply with quote #34

I wish I'd seen this single node post before I tried to root my Atreano cuttings! I had four cuttings of about 6 to 8" long, with closely spaced nodes. Wasn't getting anywhere with them in a ziplock bag, so I finally just stuck them in some plastic cups with cactus mix, crossed my fingers and hoped for the best. I'm finally seeing a tiny leaf bud on one of the cuttings, two months later... I took a few cuttings from my Mission tree in September, and the node spacing was pretty long. I cut each one in half, and they've rooted successfully. __________________ USDA Zone 9b Wish list: Abruzzi, Pasquale, Tagliacozzo, Zingarella, Godfather. Any unk Italian, especially from Abruzzo.

Rob

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Posted 1415044490	Reply with quote #35

Charlie, was wondering about your post #28 above where you have over 100 one node figs in the same container with mix. Isn't that going to be a nightmare to separate the things, assuming they root? I find it difficult enough when I do a dozen or two so in sphagnum moss. They normally will send roots straight out so they are going to be tangled like crazy. It's a cool experiment, just wondering what you are trying to accomplish. Do you really want to have over 100 of the same variety? Or do you just want a few? Or is it just a scientific curiousity. I would think that you could have made 50 two node cuttings and have a better success rate overall. __________________ Rob Maryland Zone 7 http://rbfigs.webs.com/

Charlie

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Posted 1415061270	Reply with quote #36

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob Charlie, was wondering about your post #28 above where you have over 100 one node figs in the same container with mix. Isn't that going to be a nightmare to separate the things, assuming they root? I find it difficult enough when I do a dozen or two so in sphagnum moss. They normally will send roots straight out so they are going to be tangled like crazy. It's a cool experiment, just wondering what you are trying to accomplish. Do you really want to have over 100 of the same variety? Or do you just want a few? Or is it just a scientific curiousity. I would think that you could have made 50 two node cuttings and have a better success rate overall. Figured everybody who wanted the Unk Lake Spur had some and had several leftovers. There are a bunch buried out back in the wood chip pile also and I want to see if they will do anything, providing they survive winter and hopefully sprout in spring. Not wanting to just toss them out, this seemed like a worthy experiment. There is some reasoning method to it though so I will try to explain. The day before I did the 100 in individual bowls. Not able to see any rooting in styro bowls, I put a very thin layer of mix in the sterilite container bottom, one, to hold the cuttings with the nodes up (don't know why) and two, so when roots do start I will be able to see them right away and get them potted before they tangle. This should also be a good indicator of there being roots in the 100 styro bowls, at which time I will remove the foil so light can hit the buds on those cuttings. Do I really want a hundred of one variety? Not especially. Curiosity? Overwhelming always. Success rate will be of great interest to me since I just discovered for myself something that works and no mold. What if they all survive? Doubtful but with this many and of different varieties with the bowl 100, I should get a worthy indication of the methodology success. I'm certainly no scientist. Most of the things I do make no sense at all to anyone. If I get a hundred unk Lake Spur out of this deal then I will find somewhere to put them. Unk Lake Spur is a mystery it seems. I wasn't able to get a ripe fig or even see one. Have gotten busy and not been back out there to visit the new home owner. What if it turns out to be a really great variety? I will have a bunch of trees already growing! If it sucks then I will have a bunch of useless fig trees, except for the leaves which I love the tea made from and most of the folks I have shared it with. Yes I think I'm a bit fig crazy. Will it ever subside? __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1415407788	Reply with quote #37

Charlie... FOREST !! :)

Charlie

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Posted 1415414563	Reply with quote #38

So far so good. Since installing the metal halide I'm having to get a watering schedule figured out. That coupled with the ceiling fan on constantly sure dries everything out fast. Thinking of an indoor rggs or similar. Wife is adjusting well lol. Was watering with a spray bottle now have a pump-up three gallon with a trigger wand. Much better. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

Charlie

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Posted 1415501305 · Edited	Reply with quote #39

Six days we have roots! The cups were removed but the foil covers went back on after a light watering. These are Atreano and Deanna. Lots of others showing roots also. No roots showing in sterilite container yet. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

Charlie

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Posted 1415843041	Reply with quote #40

Atreano is also the first of these to sprout leaves. Many more have greening buds. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

joann1536

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Posted 1415843474	Reply with quote #41

Six days for the Atreano to root? Awesome! Mine took a month. __________________ USDA Zone 9b Wish list: Abruzzi, Pasquale, Tagliacozzo, Zingarella, Godfather. Any unk Italian, especially from Abruzzo.

Charlie

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Posted 1415843693	Reply with quote #42

Quote: Originally Posted by joann1536 Six days for the Atreano to root? Awesome! Mine took a month. Yes I was pretty shocked to see those. After that the foil covers were removed and I have been spraying each bowl daily to keep the surface moistened. It is dry to about 1/4 inch depth in 24 hours under the metal halide and ceiling fan. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

joann1536

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Posted 1415844324	Reply with quote #43

I found Atreano to be really sensitive to overwatering. Yours look great so far! __________________ USDA Zone 9b Wish list: Abruzzi, Pasquale, Tagliacozzo, Zingarella, Godfather. Any unk Italian, especially from Abruzzo.

Charlie

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Posted 1415845199	Reply with quote #44

Actually the bowls are fairly dry down deeper but still damp. During this experiment I have noticed something about watering. With the first buried cutting which was Armenian, up to a point it was kept just barely damp, put out a couple of leaves and then just kind of stalled out for several days. It wanted water so it seems. Gave the pot a good soaking and within a couple of days it has doubled leaf size and is putting on new ones. So seems there is a fine line between keeping just damp for starting and then ramping up the water. We'll see how it goes with these as they get a few leaves on. I notice a few roots now in the sterilite container with all the Unk Lake Spur. Something to do this weekend. Just scored a free source of rabbit poop. Happy dance lol. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

Hershell

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Posted 1415918189	Reply with quote #45

Free Poop. The only way it could be better is if they delivered. __________________ Hershell Zone 8. Ray City, Ga.

Aaron4USA

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Posted 1416167089	Reply with quote #46

Charlie, Are you going to apply the Rabbit manure directly into the pots or make tea out of it? I have never used manure and I hear they can be too strong or active, as they sometimes call it, and might burn the tender plants.

Charlie

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Posted 1416169140	Reply with quote #47

This batch went into the vermi tumbler after a harvest of castings. By Spring it will be worm poop. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

Charlie

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Posted 1416361121	Reply with quote #48

Surface watering the bowls twice a day with the sprayer. I never would have thought things would dry out so quickly. Room temp running about 85 F while freezing outside. There are 50 more bowls with single nodes under the foil. Saw a gnat a few days ago and put up the sticky tape. It's stuck on the center one. :) Atreano leafing... Armenian doubled in growth since increasing water. Unk Lake Spur in the background... A gift Dalmatie from a very generous member. OT lol __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

Charlie

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Posted 1416624965	Reply with quote #49

Some more budding taking place in the bowls. All are single node except Deanna. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas