Well, I consider ethics to be of utmost importance to me but don't agree with your broad generalization about this. If I am confident of the source, I feel it is appropriate to sell cuttings.  The idea of giving them away as trades instead of selling them makes no sense at all as the potential for a problem still persists.  In my auction I specifically indicated that the variety had not fruited for me yet.

And to think that you can identify a variety with 100% confidence once it has fruited for you is also a fallacy, though it does help.  Different environmental conditions produce different fruits and many fruits are similar to other varieties.  Since my source was very reliable, I stand by my position that it was appropriate to sell them.  I did not get big money for these cuttings, BTW.

Ed and Pete - to take this further: if I were to buy cuttings from you and grow them for one year but not get fruit, I should not sell cuttings from those trees after I pruned them?  I couldn't rely on what I actually got from you?  I know my own care in labeling trees is very careful, so any mix-up would not be on my end.

I think anybody that sells fig cuttings should indicate whether or not they are a licensed nursery and subject to annual inspections, but that's just my opinion.

Harvey,
Fig cultivation and gardening is a hobby for me, I currently have no plans to sell any fig related products. Per your scenario, IMO, it would be your responsibility to ensure that your product was the correct cultivar. There have been many instances of mislabeling from reputable sources, you could be perpetuating that mistake.

But my original comment was directed to ED, It was not an indictment on your sale of cuttings.
Financial concerns aside, Would you agree that growing out the cultivar to harvest would provide a more definitive confirmation of the cultivar that you would be selling?

it wasn't too long ago when large quantity of RdB cuttings were auction off ebay and lot of members got burnt. the tree was not grown by the seller and he went by what his neighbor said.. or something like that. not sure what the full story was. i think people are rather concerned with that and other issue from the past.

i'm sure Socorro Black in this discussion has more reliable source and harvey will back it up if something goes wrong. i don't question others too much about what i'm trading with. their word is good with me and if something goes wrong, i just won't trade with that person again. but when money gets involved, things can get ugly. 

Pete, growing a cultivar to harvest can help but, as I already said, it is not going to provide 100% confidence.  Again, fruits appear differently in different climates.  Nobody has mentioned leaves yet.  I do compare leaves and use that as a guide.  One tree I bought from another member here did not match up and I pointed that out to him and he apologized and made a refund (which I said beforehand was not being requested).  Once that tree fruits for me I still won't be selling it as a named variety as I already know it's wrong.

Hobbyists can come up with many different ideas of what they would like to see put into practice but that does mean it will be put into commercial practice.  Most nurseries in the USA do not grow fruit/nuts on their own mother trees.  For instance, when UC Riverside bred and released the citrus variety 'Tango', it was released through CCPP with a limit of 12 buds per nursery.  Within a year, there were hundreds of thousands of Tango trees being sold.  Some people here at F4F have bought trees from Burnt Ridge Nursery.  This is a small nursery and I visited the place in 2000.  I am pretty certain that owner Michael Dolan doesn't produce any fig fruits yet he sells fig trees.  At the same time, he does produce different chestnuts and also sell chestnut trees.  Many of his chestnut trees that he sells are mislabeled.  I know this from first hand experience as well as from hearing from several others who have experienced the same problems.  So how well does the fact that his mother trees produce nuts help?  Duarte Nursery in California produces something more than 10 million trees and vines each year and most of these are varieties that they don't fruit.  Many are produced in tissue culture and then grown in greeenhouses.  This is a commercially accepted practice.  If I'm not mistaken, Jon has also sold cuttings from varieties that have not yet fruited for him.  Doing so helps get the diversity spread out more quickly.

The cuttings I've sold have made it clear if they have fruited for me or not.  I make a careful judgment on the source and take great care in labeling of my new plants (rarely, I find a plant that has a lost label and I through the plant away).  I believe my actions are prudent.

By the way, Socorro Black to produce fruits for me, but they were too late in the year to fully mature so I did not even try eating them or take photos.

Harvey,
Thank you for answering my question.
I am aware that its not viable due to financial concerns, especially since the advent of tissue culturing and I have no illusion that it would ever be practiced commercially.

The Socorro Black looks to be an interesting cultivar, Hopefully it will be more available for trialing in other Zones.

Pete, if you want cuttings, just let me know. :)

I am not just growing figs for financial reasons but I do need to pay bills also.  I spent another $500 last night to expand my indoor growing.

For some proof in the pudding, I have spent quite a bit of money in the past year buying varieties where I know they had not yet fruited for the buyer but I was eager to be able to give them a chance.  I am not selling any of those yet.  As I said earlier, if I consider the source to be very reliable, I think it's okay to sell.  In these cases, a second chain of title leaves too much risk, IMO.

Harvey,
Thanks for the offer, but I already have dozens of unknowns that were collected from NYC that I'm currently growing or will be starting this year.

Please keep us updated on the progress of your Socorro Black. Thanks.

Harvey, the last thing I want to do is cause a problem.  I enjoy your posts and the threads you have started.  Lets just say that I disagree with selling cuttings before they fruit for me.  No hard feelings.  Lets get back to any input as far as the fruit of the Socorro black.

Harvey you asked if it is more objectionable to kill a bird than a squirrel or rat.  The answer is, it depends on species.  It's actually a federal offense to kill any native bird in the US or posses the eggs, feathers or nests of any native bird in the US unless it is classified as a game bird such as ducks, quale and turkeys.  If it is a game bird state and federal laws regarding hunting season and licensing apply.  It is legal to kill any exotic bird for any reason unless it is an endangered species, but it is illegal to collect eggs, feathers or nests so as to prevent international trafficking.  Laws protecting birds are strict as heck!  God bless.

I have a Socorro Black that I bought from Harvey last year via EBay. I am in Zone 5B and it will be interesting to compare fruit eventually as there are obviously many different parameters. No signs of fig embryos yet but I have my fingers  crossed.