pino
Registered:1383190021 Posts: 2,118
Posted 1392658232
Reply with quote
#1
Hello, There are various methods for growing figs from cuttings and most have been discussed in detail on this forum. However there are many heartbreaking stories of the young figs killed after they establish roots and even after growing leaflets. Water/humidity issues are high on the suspects list for this. Here I am trying to identify the unique relative humidity requirements of the different stages of the scion progress and strategies and help us to get the figs through that tender stage.
The goal is to get the fig cuttings to the happy stage for them and no more stress stage for us. Where the little figs have 3 or more regular leaves, healthy roots and are growing;
Stage of scion progress
Strategy Maintain temperatures 72F-78F (22C-26C) bottom heat.
Application
1. Start rooting (Cuttings have no roots/no green growth)
Humidity 85-90% RH, rooting media damp not wet
Various initial rooting methods.
(baggie, perlite, SM, other)
All seem to work if you maintain proper humidity, air out regularly to prevent mold.
2a. Cutting grows green shoots but no roots yet.
Not preferred but once leaves form need to monitor humidity carefully since too much can rot leaves not enough will dry them out.
- Plant cuttings in cups.
- Maintain humidity ~65-85% RH
- Provide Light. It is now essential so the leaves grow and help roots form.
Plant in cups, 50/50 perlite/soil mix. use a humidity bin water in bottom plants suspended above water. open lid to air out regularly. (or use misting system) ..note that RH 90% or higher can cause leaves to rot.
2b. Roots form but no green growth
This is preferred to cuttings growing leaves but not roots.
- Plant cuttings in cups.
- Humidity 65-80% RH
Open lid as required to maintain RH, rooting media damp no watering. Protected environment required but active humidity bin not required.
3. Cutting has formed roots and green growth/leaflets
The cutting is progressing normally.
- Humidity 65-80% RH,
- Provide Light. It is now essential so the leaves grow and help plant grow.
Open lid as required to maintain RH, minimal watering
Protected environment required but active humidity bin no longer required.
4. Happy time - Substantial roots and green growth and 3 or more leaves opening and progressing.
A little fig tree has taken shape. - Humidity 65% or ambient RH
- Provide Light. Essential so plant and leaves grow well. - apply mild fertilizer/nutrient
Maintain ambient RH, monitor so they don't dry out but minimal watering.
Start hardening off and transplant as required.
Further suggestions, ideas and corrections are welcome.
Thanks
__________________Pino, zone 6, Niagara, JCJ Acres Wish; Peace on earth and more figs Italian 258, Galicia Negra, Luv, trade suggestions welcome.
rafaelissimmo
Registered:1335639347 Posts: 1,473
Posted 1392658795
Reply with quote
#2
Pino it's not clear what method or stage you are talking about-are you using baggie method? Is this after removal from baggie? Are you using plugs or spaghnum moss? Is this the cupping stage?
__________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York
pino
Registered:1383190021 Posts: 2,118
Posted 1392659207
Reply with quote
#3
The first stage (no roots/no green growth) can be any method i.e. baggie, perlite, SM, cups ... The real questions for me start after this 1st stage once the green growth has started sometimes without roots. Thanks
__________________Pino, zone 6, Niagara, JCJ Acres Wish; Peace on earth and more figs Italian 258, Galicia Negra, Luv, trade suggestions welcome.
bullet08
Registered:1284496248 Posts: 6,920
Posted 1392660731
Reply with quote
#4
pino, if there is any leaf, you want to monitor carefully with humidity. they can rot easy. specially if it's too humid and has good heat. it's not a big problem but it can set you back. never measured the humidity inside of the baggie before. but what you put in well wrung out paper towel, that should be enough moisture for 3 to 5 cuttings. i mean squeezed till no water comes out. this winter i had 3 VdB cuttings that i didn't ship out due to running out of padded envelopes. those cuttings were wrap in dry paper towel. just with the moisture that was in fresh cuttings, i could see them trying to root. i didn't look after them they went into a trash can. but very little moisture is needed. i check the bags everyday, this seems to keep mold away. and i also air out the baggie. that means after awhile, you need to replenish the moisture. i get a new paper towel, wrung it out and put it in with cuttings still wrapped in previous paper towel. it seems to work.
__________________ Pete Durham, NC Zone 7b "don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill "the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher ***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. ***** ***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
ascpete
Registered:1336096379 Posts: 1,942
Posted 1392661184
Reply with quote
#5
Pino, Thanks for starting this topic. The actual temperatures should be included in your chart... [ 72 deg F. - 78 deg F. (22 deg C. to 26 deg C.)] IMO, the 85% to 90% RH is actually only needed to "hydrate" the cutting and speed rooting. I have successfully "hydrated" the cuttings in soggy Long fibered sphagnum moss (both in the refrigerator and in the rooting bin) for several days prior to commencing the rooting stage and it decreased the rooting time by one week compared to maintaining the 85% - 90% RH environment. Leaves will grow in the 90% RH but they will be very tender and may rot. The higher humidity is only required for cuttings that have not rooted but have produced (grown) leaves. A lower %RH and misting the cuttings, not the mix, achieves the same goal for cuttings without roots. A good growing humid environment with %RH than is higher that the room's ambient can also be achieved with a fully open bin that is misted twice daily. Personally, I do not use a humidity chamber for more than 2 weeks after potting up rooted cuttings and that is more to maintain soil moisture than for the leaves, which can be misted at any time. Rafael, IMO, It doesn't matter which actual method is being used, maintaining the temperature and the initial high humidity will give you the same successful results. Pre-rooting 85% to 90% RH... initial Growing 65% to 80% RH... Growing ambient RH...
pino
Registered:1383190021 Posts: 2,118
Posted 1392669919
Reply with quote
#6
Rafael, Pete and Pete S. thanks for your valuable information I have updated the initial post with my understanding of your suggestions.
Pete S. I like the idea of hydrating the cuttings before starting the rooting. This is also recommended for hard to root dormant tree cuttings. They sometimes soak the cuttings for 14 days prior to rooting and they claim many fold increase in success rates.
Would soaking for a day or two also work for figs or is there something magical about sphagnum moss?
__________________Pino, zone 6, Niagara, JCJ Acres Wish; Peace on earth and more figs Italian 258, Galicia Negra, Luv, trade suggestions welcome.
jdsfrance
Registered:1376988473 Posts: 2,591
Posted 1392673627
Reply with quote
#7
Hi Pino, You missed an important parameter ... answer comes tomorrow :P
__________________ ------------------------
Climate from -25°C to + 35°C
Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here
Gofigure
Registered:1387822122 Posts: 116
Posted 1392676825
Reply with quote
#8
Another newbie here. I've tried everything and have only been successful so far with natural sphagnum, dipped in a bucket of tap water and squeezed out as much as possible, placed in a plastic shoe box with cuttings soaked in 10% bleach for an hour and dried off, no hormones. Opened to check every 3 or 4 days, redipped in 10% bleach to wash off mold using an old tooth brush if necessary then put back in. Potted my second one today. My experiments have been only with brown turkey so far. This method has worked 100% for me so far, (2 for 2). Started a deeper container with Alma and Black mission a couple days ago. The mold with natural sphagnum was nothing compared to the amount of mold I created with paper towels, chopped sphagnum, vermiculite, and perlite. My honey and clonex cuttings have callused and appear to be progressing at the same rate so far, sphag in a bag. For periodic checking of the cuttings, boxes are much easier to move the sphag around without dropping it. h
__________________ ATL, GA, Zone 7b In ground varieties (22):Osborne Prolific, Conadria, Petit Negri, O'Rourke, Hardy Chicago, Texas BA-1, Alma, Celeste, Kadota, Green Ischia, Brown Turkey, Black Mission, Violette de Bordeaux, Texas Everbearing, Magnolia/Brunswick, LSU Purple, Dark Portuguese, Black Greek, Ronde de Bordeaux, Champagne, Dark Portuguese, Hybrid 0023. Rooting: Excel, 187-25, 291-4, 143-36, Cole de Dame, Calvert, Vernino, Santa Cruz Dark, Pastilliere, St. Jean, Barnisotte, Native de Argentile, VdB, Osborne Prolific.
ascpete
Registered:1336096379 Posts: 1,942
Posted 1392678762
Reply with quote
#9
Pino, You're welcome. Hydrating is not something that is universally recommended, but it worked in several tests that were performed last year, with the same results (earlier root growth). Long Fibered Sphagnum Moss was used for its anti-microbial properties. For hydration, it was soaked in water and used wet and soggy, the water was not completely squeezed out. The cuttings were hydrated for 2 - 3 days then the same Moss was squeezes out completely "dry" and used for the rooting process. Note, if rooting with barely damp Long fibered Sphagnum moss in bag or shoe box at 72 -78 deg F., if they are sealed airtight and checked every few days, the humidity will be 85% - 90%. Row 3 Column 2, IMO, should read "Maintain Humidity 85 - 90% RH ", increasing the humidity will only increase the chance of mold growth. Good luck. Gofigure, Be careful with the rooting hormone application, It can "burn out" the cuttings , by putting all the stored energy into root development. Rooting Hormone should only be applied to the bottom of the cuttings.
recomer20
Registered:1378013757 Posts: 402
Posted 1392697398
Reply with quote
#10
Thanks for mentioning heat, Pete S. Seems its an element very much overlooked. Not all cuttings are the same, but the right heat is a game changer.
__________________ Rick C. Birmingham, AL z7b --- *INGROUND: S.C.Lemon ("Dr.Welch"), LSUpurple, Celeste (Std) *POTTED 3rd Yr: Alma, Atreano, BattGreen, GrnGreek, HardyChicago, ItalianBlack (Becnel), LSUGold?, MBvs, Sal's EL, Southern BT?, St.Jean, Jackie'sUnk *POTTED 2nd Yr: SunbirdUnkJP, BourjNoire, JHAdriatic, ValleNegra *ROOTING: RdB, ScottsBlk, BlkGreek-MN,Preto
jdsfrance
Registered:1376988473 Posts: 2,591
Posted 1392748680
Reply with quote
#11
Hi Pino, Time to add a column light. IMO, during the first four weeks the cuttings should be kept in darkness. After that, when they start budding out, then give them proper light. I read a lot of messages stating that behind a window is enough. But for me, the window should be sunny - this means that outside the sun is shinning . Else you should provide artificial light to accommodate the cuttings ... Just my thought ... If you let light in too soon, the cuttings could well turn budding instead of rooting first ...
__________________ ------------------------
Climate from -25°C to + 35°C
Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here
FiggieFive_0
Registered:1392277468 Posts: 259
Posted 1392760842
Reply with quote
#12
I'm new to fig growing, but not so new to gardening in general. I'm completely stumped here. I received some cuttings (possibly RdB) that appears to be older growth. I cup-potted in 50/50 potting mix and perlite, and now, 2 weeks later I'm not sure what is going on with my cuttings. These look like root initials, but not sure. The question is aren't roots supposed to grow underground :) ? Do I uproot the entire cutting and plant horizontally? There doesn't seem to be any buds either. I'm really at a lost for words. Nate
__________________ Nate Faith, Family, Friends, and Figs (not necessarily in that order).
DesertDance
Registered:1247674606 Posts: 4,518
Posted 1392764677
Reply with quote
#13
Nate, you have lots of root initials and lots of little roots! You are lucky! Just cup it up. You can do it horizontally. Shoots will appear. Figs know what's up and what's down. They figure it out all on their own, or you can plant the entire thing in a deeper pot. Cover all those lovely roots! That fig cutting is ready to grow! One thing that needs to be added to this chart is root initials. Before roots, the initials will appear. Good luck to you! Suzi
__________________ Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!" Wish List: I wish all of you happy fig collecting! My wishes have been fulfilled!
Gofigure
Registered:1387822122 Posts: 116
Posted 1392764736
Reply with quote
#14
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ascpete Pino,
Gofigure,
Be careful with the rooting hormone application,
It can "burn out" the cuttings , by putting all the stored energy into root development. Rooting Hormone should only be applied to the bottom of the cuttings.
Thanks for the link. That is great info that should be in the FAQ, imho. The cutting shown just had powder on the end. There was no rooting down there at all yet. I should have kept it dark as Jdsfrance suggested, to delay bud break and work on roots. FiggieFive-0, I'd bury that with just a little bit above the soil. Maybe I'll be corrected if that is wrong? Guess you won't have to worry about a humidity dome for the leaves. I'm GUESSING they will show up much later. Anybody? Bueller? Whoa, Suzi already answered you.
__________________ ATL, GA, Zone 7b In ground varieties (22):Osborne Prolific, Conadria, Petit Negri, O'Rourke, Hardy Chicago, Texas BA-1, Alma, Celeste, Kadota, Green Ischia, Brown Turkey, Black Mission, Violette de Bordeaux, Texas Everbearing, Magnolia/Brunswick, LSU Purple, Dark Portuguese, Black Greek, Ronde de Bordeaux, Champagne, Dark Portuguese, Hybrid 0023. Rooting: Excel, 187-25, 291-4, 143-36, Cole de Dame, Calvert, Vernino, Santa Cruz Dark, Pastilliere, St. Jean, Barnisotte, Native de Argentile, VdB, Osborne Prolific.
FiggieFive_0
Registered:1392277468 Posts: 259
Posted 1392765464
Reply with quote
#15
Mahalo, Suzi and Steve! I've never seen anything like this except with hanging orchids. I'm definitely going to uproot and re-plant horizontally. That just had me thinking I was going about it all wrong. Man, this is exciting! Again, thank you. Nate
__________________ Nate Faith, Family, Friends, and Figs (not necessarily in that order).
DesertDance
Registered:1247674606 Posts: 4,518
Posted 1392766225
Reply with quote
#16
Mahalo? Wow! You are in the Aloha state? Everyone suffering under snow will be jealous for sure. Just so you know, I got that horizontal thing from an old Greek. They always put cuttings in little trenches horizontally, outside in partial damp shade. That's how it's done by the old ones! Have fun with that amazing rooted cutting! Suzi
__________________ Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!" Wish List: I wish all of you happy fig collecting! My wishes have been fulfilled!
ascpete
Registered:1336096379 Posts: 1,942
Posted 1392778843
Reply with quote
#17
Nate, It just means that the humidity and temperature are at that "sweet spot" that's conducive to rooting. Note attached picture of similar "air roots" that were growing under a 6-1/2" humidity dome, 75 deg F and 85% RH., Coir seed starting mix, in 72 cell seedling plug tray with daily misting @ 14 days from start with Rooting Hormone.
FiggieFive_0
Registered:1392277468 Posts: 259
Posted 1392779312
Reply with quote
#18
WOW! For a minute there, I thought maybe I had planted it upside down ;) That's truly amazing, Pete! So do you just let them continue growing like that or do you uproot them and re-plant horizontally? I took 2 cuttings and planted them horizontally. I left 1 cutting alone and will continue to monitor. I had them (3 cuttings) sitting quietly in a covered plastic plastic box in my garage. It's good to know that I'm doing something right when I don't really know what I'm doing at all. Much mahalo! Nate
__________________ Nate Faith, Family, Friends, and Figs (not necessarily in that order).
ascpete
Registered:1336096379 Posts: 1,942
Posted 1392779640
Reply with quote
#19
Nate, I just plant then normally and the air roots will dry up. Note picture of two of the cuttings in the lower right of the picture Post #17 @ 30 days from start.
FiggieFive_0
Registered:1392277468 Posts: 259
Posted 1392830478
Reply with quote
#20
Nice, Pete! Looks promising. I don't see any underground roots yet, but if the top of the cutting is any indication of what might be happening underground, then it's just a matter of time. It's been 2 weeks, so hopefully in the next 2 weeks they look something like yours. Aloha! Nate
__________________ Nate Faith, Family, Friends, and Figs (not necessarily in that order).
pino
Registered:1383190021 Posts: 2,118
Posted 1393102222
Reply with quote
#21
Hello I updated the initial post with the many suggestions here. Again there is lots of documentation in this forum and website on rooting methods meticulously detailed and novice are encouraged to go read this material so they find what works best for them. This posting is simply to bring attention to some critical stages of the cutting progress and highlight the importance of humidity, water and light levels that will help the cutting grow. Thanks
__________________Pino, zone 6, Niagara, JCJ Acres Wish; Peace on earth and more figs Italian 258, Galicia Negra, Luv, trade suggestions welcome.
ascpete
Registered:1336096379 Posts: 1,942
Posted 1393117048
Reply with quote
#22
Pino, Yes, there is lots of information on the Encanto Farms Website on rooting cuttings, which covers most of the methods. Your chart is actually a good tool for a quick over view. I was just reviewing a flow chart (work related) and the thought occurred to me that a Flow Chart with your tables info would be even simpler to follow as a reference. Below is an example.
jenn42
Registered:1389575153 Posts: 256
Posted 1393120954
Reply with quote
#23
This chart of info has helped tremendously! I have been reading the forum for hours for this info! I have some cuttings that are rooted & leafed out but was unsure if I should get them more light, etc. The chart is simple & sweet. I will print it out for sure & put it in my "fig journal". Again, thank you!
__________________ Jenn
Austin, TX Zone 8b
Wish List: CDD, Bryant-Dark Unknown, Red Lebanese, ORoarke, Calvert
Will hopefully have cuttings to trade next year as my yearlings mature