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Starting cuttings in my aquaponics growbed

Some cuttings I start the 'normal' way: wrap in damp paper towel, bag, then move to cup in humidity bin when roots appear.  But some cuttings I'm starting by just sticking them directly into the gravel growbed in my high tunnel aquaponics system (the growbed serves as a filter for a 1,000 gallon fish tank). 

I put the first cutting (Hardy Chicago) into the gravel about 6 weeks ago, the rest went in about 2 weeks ago.  During most of that time, the water in the system has been cold, usually around 55-60F, so growth has been really limited.  Over the last few days the weather has been nice, though, so the water temp has crept up into the low 70's and the cuttings look to be off to the races.  During this warm spell I've moved the 'normal' cupped cuttings from the humidity bin in the house out into the growbed alongside the others.

Here are the varieties pictured, in order:

Italian Honey
Black Greek
Panache
VdB
a dozen Green Ischias
Salce
Celeste
Conadria
Hardy Chicago - bagged/binned
Hardy Chicago - stuck in gravel from get-go
Hardy Chicago - comparing both methods
(note - all those HC's were started at the same time)

It's going to be fun watching these plants explode in new growth in the coming weeks :)

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In the background of the Panache pic you can see a cup with a withered cutting.  That's a Black Greek that had leaves but no roots when I brought it out of the humidity bin into the relatively intense lighting in the greenhouse.  Predictably, it fried in hours.  The cuttings that had roots were able to support their green growth without too much trouble.

Will that withered Black Greek eventually grow roots and try greening up again, or is it probably toast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFin
Some cuttings I start the 'normal' way: wrap in damp paper towel, bag, then move to cup in humidity bin when roots appear.  But some cuttings I'm starting by just sticking them directly into the gravel growbed in my high tunnel aquaponics system (the growbed serves as a filter for a 1,000 gallon fish tank). 

I put the first cutting (Hardy Chicago) out there about 6 weeks ago, the rest went out about 2 weeks ago.  During most of that time, the water in the system has been cold, usually around 55-60F, so growth has been really limited.  Over the last few days the weather has been nice, though, so the water temp has crept up into the low 70's and the cuttings look to be off to the races.

Here are the varieties pictured, in order:

Italian Honey
Black Greek
Panache
VdB
a dozen Green Ischias
Salce
Celeste
Conadria
Hardy Chicago - bagged/binned
Hardy Chicago - stuck in gravel from get-go
Hardy Chicago - comparing both methods
(note - all those HC's were started at the same time)

It's going to be fun watching these plants explode in new growth in the coming weeks :)


Please send baskets of that Buttercrunch to Fair Lawn NJ until May 2014

Are you concerned with the roots digging themselves deep?
Those are some happy figs, congratulations.

I don't mind if the roots go deep.  When the time comes to move the plants, they can be pried out of the loose gravel fairly easily.

Last summer I took a skinny green cutting from my LSU Purple plant and stuck it in the gravel growbed to see if it would take, and it did.  After a couple of months it was big and in the way, so I pried it out and buried the crown outside about 1.5' deep.  I recently checked on that plant, and even though we've had multiple cold spells that have gotten down to -10F, the stems are still pliable and seemingly alive down near the soil.  I'm wondering if those stems will leaf out in the spring.  I'm also wondering if it still has a bunch of viable nodes on the 1.5' of buried stems/trunks, and if so whether they'll send up shoots in the spring. 

I don't get it.. wait a min.. we kill them with overwatering, you have them soaking in water, right? what am I missing, these look really good.. keep it up...

it's like that chinese person who was rooting the figs in the fish tank. fish poop and waste is high in nitrogen. gives good growth. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasa
I don't get it.. wait a min.. we kill them with overwatering, you have them soaking in water, right? what am I missing

The secret is that I aerate the water pretty extensively so the roots won't drown/suffocate from lack of oxygen, and the water is constantly cycled through the system so it doesn't get stagnant.

even better.. you are providing air. i would definitely like to see the results. 

i have a gold fish for almost 8 years now. this poor thing has a bubble tube.. do you think I can shove some cutting in there with it?  Those growbeds sound wonderful. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasa
i have a gold fish for almost 8 years now. this poor thing has a bubble tube.. do you think I can shove some cutting in there with it?  Those growbeds sound wonderful. 

That might work.  The thing to watch out for would be slime/gunk covering the cutting and suffocating it.

For example, if you grow lettuce on a floating styrofoam plank with holes cut in it so the roots can dangle into the water, the plants do well if the fishy water is filtered first, but don't do so well if it isn't.  The reason is that the roots in unfiltered water get covered by slime/gunk/solid waste/algae and have trouble passing gasses and nutrients through the root walls.  That's why you want a filter in between the fishy poop water and the roots.  In my setup, the gravel growbed serves as the filter, straining and clarifying the water before it reaches the roots.

If I were you, I'd try putting a couple of expendable cuttings directly into the fish tank to see if it works.  It might.  If it doesn't work, you may just need to tweak your method a bit (say, by wrapping the cutting in a sock/etc that could both act as a filter and keep the roots in the dark).

Here are 3 key questions to keep in mind for this general method:

1) are the roots adequately aerated?  (so roots don't suffocate/drown)
2) is the root zone adequately darkened?  (so roots don't get covered in algae and suffocate)
3) is the fishy water adequately filtered?  (so roots don't get covered in slime/gunk and suffocate)


Cool, thanks for sharing that!  I hadn't seen it before.  I like the little raft he made for his cuttings.

Recently I experimented with trying to start cuttings in very rich fertilizer water.  I didn't plan it that way, I just had some really rich fertilizer water (for my bananas) and I wanted to see what would happen.  And?  The cuttings all failed.  They just sort of dissolved and turned to mush.  At first I found that a bit surprising, but I've since read here on the forum that fresh cuttings don't respond well to fertilizer, so now it doesn't seem surprising anymore.

fresh cutting doesn't response well to full strength fertilizer. but at lower, it seems to stimulate growth. i water my cuttings with very weak MG fert. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet08
fresh cutting doesn't response well to full strength fertilizer. but at lower, it seems to stimulate growth. i water my cuttings with very weak MG fert. 

The fertilizer water I used was way beyond full strength (maybe 20 times?), so no wonder those cuttings died and turned to mush.

Hello,

What kind of gravel do you use in your grow beds? It looks like a small river rock to me. The expanded clay pellet is pricey and all the gravel around me is limestone so i would have an uphill battle with pH. I have wanted to try aquaponics for a while but other hobbies like figs have got in the way.
Thanks,

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffybunny
What kind of gravel do you use in your grow beds? It looks like a small river rock to me. The expanded clay pellet is pricey and all the gravel around me is limestone so i would have an uphill battle with pH.

I bought it from a local quarry/construction materials company and had hoped to get all river rock, but there's some limestone in it.  What that means is that the pH is constantly being pushed toward 8.  Biological activity tries to push the pH down, but it can't overcome the effect of the limestone, so the pH is constantly around 8.

A pH of 8 is not what lettuce/spinach/etc wants.  Most plants want a significantly lower pH, especially greens.  In the last pic in the 1st post, you can see the spinach yellowing as it struggles with the pH (the high pH of the water prevents the plants from readily absorbing various nutrients).  What I find surprising is that the lettuce (and some of the spinach) is able to overcome the high pH and still flourish.  The greens hate the high pH, but the other conditions are so amenable that they still grow fairly well.

There are two bright sides to having a strong limestone buffer.  First, I never need to worry about the pH crashing (from biological activity overwhelming the buffer and rapidly driving the pH down), and instead am blessed with a steady pH that is almost impossible to budge.  The second bright side is that figs and bananas are tolerant of a highish pH around 8, and can readily flourish under those conditions :)

Thanks for sharing your photos of green things growing in the winter!

Here are some pics from about 10 days ago of the Hardy Chicago from the 2nd-to-last pic in the original post.  The figs that were starting to swell and color in the pics below have since ripened and been eaten.  They were great :)

[image] 
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Excellent work once again James. CH looks very very healthy for this time of the year. Thanks for sharing the results. By the way did the black Greek survive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK
Excellent work once again James. CH looks very very healthy for this time of the year. Thanks for sharing the results. By the way did the black Greek survive?

Yes, the Black Greek that was planted straight into the gravel has been stepped on a couple of times and moved around some, so it's been knocked back several times, but it refuses to quit.  It's about 1' tall, has 5 big plump fruit that are about to swell up and ripen, and is pushing out some very healthy new shoots that seems to indicate that it is ready to start vigorously growing like the HC did.

The Black Greek that was in a cup in the gravel also survived.  I moved it over into my pit greenhouse and planted in the dirt.  It put on about 40' of total growth among 8-10 trunks, but it was shaded by some bananas and didn't produce any fruit.  Those bananas will be moved into my newest greenhouse when I finish it in a few weeks, though, so I'm hoping for a lot of Black Greek fruit off of that bush next season. 


Awesome, thanks for the update James! By the way I just got done wrapping my four yearlings but only with some landscaping fabric and clear plastic. My first time wrapping them! It got too cold too quick this year! It was 22 this morning ,felt in the low teens with the wind and only went up to 32. Not normal for this area!

A great thread.  My thumbs up!  Do you have composting worms in your gravels also?

Thanks for the nice comments :)

Yes, there are lots of red wiggler composting worms in the gravel.  Many, many thousands!  It's interesting that since the water is aerated, the worms live underwater.  They come up and lounge around (and find love) on the surface at night, but they spend most of their time in the gravel underwater.

That is a very healthy system.  

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