Successful Potting Mix Recipes_Peat, Bark and Mineral Based Ingredients

Author

Comment Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417883032 · Edited	Reply with quote #1

Many members have discussed and posted their preferred mixes, the major ingredients of some are listed below for comparison to a few custom mixes... Containers.. Miracle-Gro: 85% - 15% (peat - perlite) Fertilome UPM: 85% - 15% (peat - perlite). Pro-Mix BX: 85% - 15% (peat - perlite). Pro-Mix HP: 75% - 25% (peat - perlite). Fafard52: 60% - 30% - 10% (pinebark - peat - perlite) 5-1-1: 71.4% - 14.3% - 14.3% (pine bark - peat - perlite). 5-1-1-1: 62.5% - 12.5% - 12.5% - -12.5% (pine bark - peat - perlite - calcined clay) Gritty Mix: 33% - 33% - 34% (pine bark - ganite grit - calcined clay) Sub Irrigated Planters (SIPs) BillsFigs: 100% Mushroom Compost Miracle-Gro: 85% - 15% (peat - perlite) Pro-Mix BX: 85% - 15% (peat - perlite) 4-2-1-1: 50% - 25% - 12.5% - -12.5% (pine bark - peat - perlite - calcined clay) Several members have used commercial mixes with added portions of Perlite, Lava Rocks etc. for added aeration and or Manure Compost, Mushroom Compost etc for added nutrients and organic humus. Its been my observation that container grown fig trees will grow in almost any medium but will grow faster and healthier in a well aerated mix. I use the custom 5-1-1-1 mix, there are many merits of this mix and with the addition of 1 part Calcined clay the water holding capacity is increased while maintaining the beneficial aeration. The mix is still good (reuseable) after 3 seasons of use. I used the 4-2-1-1 mix successfully last season in SIPs. I plan on trialing 2 new mixes longterm, the 5-1-1-1 mix without peat as mentioned by Al Tapla in one of the discussions and a Gravel - Sand mix which Ive trialed successfully with fig culture. What is your current potting mix recipe for Containers and or SIPs? Links to info on potting mix ingredients... http://www.greenhouse.cornell.edu/crops/factsheets/peatlite.pdf http://www.turface.com/sites/default/files/landscape_brochure.pdf http://earthbox.com/earthbox-pdf/EB-WEB-INSTRUCTIONS_NEW-2.pdf http://earthbox.com/earthbox-pdf/replant-instructions-1.pdf Archived discussions on potting mixes...@Figs4Fun http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/consensus-on-potting-mix-6416224?&trail=50 http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=6704202 Archived discussions on potting mixes...@ GardenWeb http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0212444023053.html http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bonsai/msg0219033011437.html http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg1221344425812.html http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0323131520631.html http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0914024623640.html http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0921071615772.html Quote: Originally Posted by Al Tapla, The basic soils I use The 5-1-1 mix: 5 parts pine bark fines (partially composted fines are best) 1 part sphagnum peat (not reed or sedge peat please) 1-2 parts perlite garden lime (or gypsum in some cases) controlled release fertilizer (if preferred) Big batch; 3 cu ft pine bark fines 5 gallons peat 5 gallons perlite 2 cups dolomitic (garden) lime (or gypsum in some cases) 2 cups CRF (if preferred) Small batch; 3 gallons pine bark 1/2 gallon peat 1/2 gallon perlite 4 tbsp lime (or gypsum in some cases) 1/4 cup CRF (if preferred) I have seen advice that some highly organic (practically speaking - almost all container soils are highly organic) container soils are productive for up to 5 years or more. I disagree and will explain why if there is interest. Even if you were to substitute fir bark for pine bark in this recipe (and this recipe will long outlast any peat based soil) you should only expect a maximum of two to three years life before a repot is in order. Usually perennials, including trees (they're perennials too) should be repotted more frequently to insure they can grow at as close to their genetic potential within the limits of other cultural factors as possible. If a soil is desired that will retain structure for long periods, we need to look more to inorganic components. Some examples are crushed granite, fine stone, VERY coarse sand (see above - usually no smaller than BB size in containers, please), Haydite, lava rock (pumice), Turface, calcined DE, and others. For long term (especially woody) plantings and houseplants, I use a superb soil that is extremely durable and structurally sound. The basic mix is equal parts of pine bark, Turface, and crushed granite. The gritty mix: 1 part uncomposted screened pine or fir bark (1/8-1/4") 1 part screened Turface 1 part crushed Gran-I-Grit (grower size) or #2 cherrystone 1 Tbsp gypsum per gallon of soil (eliminate if your fertilizer has Ca) CRF (if desired) I use 1/8 -1/4 tsp Epsom salts (MgSO4) per gallon of fertilizer solution when I fertilize if the fertilizer does not contain Mg (check your fertilizer - if it is soluble, it is probable it does not contain Ca or Mg. If I am using my currently favored fertilizer (I use it on everything), Dyna-Gro's Foliage-Pro in the 9-3-6 formulation, and I don't use gypsum or Epsom salts in the fertilizer solution.

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1417884858	Reply with quote #2

Pete thank you for collecting all this valuable information. One of the members mentioned to me that different kinds of sand (eg construction sand) have different levels of silica, have you ever investigated which is the optimum sand for container culture? __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1417885205 · Edited	Reply with quote #3

Its good to see someone with actual, extensive, experiential knowledge (not anectodal) posting about soil mixes. __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417885324 · Edited	Reply with quote #4

Rafael, You're welcome. Silica is a beneficial mineral for plant growth. I've not done detailed research on sand, but it should be coarse and clean or prewashed to remove salts. I use coarse Concrete Sand from a local Quarry, but have successfully used Play Sand from the home Improvement stores in small planters. . Attached is a picture of an LSU Purple in a Concrete Sand potting mix. Actually this topic was started to get some more real Anecdotal Information from members instead of conjecture (assumptions). ... So what are you currently using as your potting mix ingredients and in what ratios? <edit>

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1417886354	Reply with quote #5

Pete What I was referring to as anectodal is information learned strictly from browsing the internet and not based in empirical observation. Any old fool can become an "expert" by doing that, but I agree there is nothing better than people sharing specific, detailed observations based on multiple growing seasons and different mixes. Oddly enough, I have had some great results in odd situations-varieties have flourished in mostly pro-mix with little fertilizer, or even just topsoil (a mistake I made with one fig tree over 3 years ago and could not backtrack on). This leads me to believe that not enough attention is paid to the general heath and vigor of certain varieties, which can compensate for poor choice of medium, or even flourish regardless of medium or fertilizer plan. __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

Aaron4USA

Registered:1375832059
Posts: 2,969

Posted 1417886420	Reply with quote #6

Pete, thank you for all the valuable information.

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417886857 · Edited	Reply with quote #7

Rafael, That is the first hand anecdotal info that I'm looking to compile in this topic.... My experience has also been that they will grow in almost any medum,but will thrive with proper balanced nutrients and potting mix or soil structure. Yes, any one can read, form opinions and conjecture without ever actually applying the information. Aaron, You're welcome. What's your mix recipe? Thanks...

Aaron4USA

Registered:1375832059
Posts: 2,969

Posted 1417887979	Reply with quote #8

Mine has evolved around my own climate need. I use Mirracle Grow (75% PM and 25% Perlite) then I add Wood Chips 50/50 (50 MG/50WC), I add some Water Crystals in the mix as a moisture reserve for harsher hot days. that's it.

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417889833	Reply with quote #9

Aaron, Thanks... That ratio is; 4-3-1 50% - 37.5% - 12.5% (Wood Chips - Peat - Perlite). BTW regular Miracle-Gro is usually only about 15% Perlite. How long have you grown in this mix? and How have your harvests been? Thanks.

Ampersand

Registered:1389979527
Posts: 728

Posted 1417890159	Reply with quote #10

Thanks for posting this Pete, great to have all of this in one place. Your efforts are appreciated. I've been using a commercially used blend by a greenhouse for annuals. Worked very well on first year plants (upwards of 4' of growth on most), but I'm not sure about long term use.

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1417891098	Reply with quote #11

Pete, since this thread is concerned with container culture, I am also curious whether you or others have noticed any variability with how roots respond to different mixes, eg whether robust roots or heavily compacted roots correspond to particular mixes. Mostly, I have heretofore used a combination of promix and mushroom compost mixed with a bit of sand and dolomitic limestone pellets so far, but this year I am following McGinva's advice and using Fafard 52 plus some sand and limestone. I have Agway Pine fines too for top dressing, and I will be adding a mix of rabbit compost, leaf compost and homeade vermiculture compost plus glacial rock dust and Iron tone in spring as top dressing. I am expecting good results. __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417893179	Reply with quote #12

Kelby, Thanks for commenting and sharing your info... Do you know (can you find out) the approximate ratio of major ingredients? It can be used in comparisons... Thanks. Rafael, IMO, visibly healthier vigorous roots (larger diameter tan to white) develop in the more aerated mixes. As the potting mix becomes denser the roots grow out thinner and darker. Most ingredients can be categorized as 1) High Porosity / Fine / Water Holding, 2) Aerating / Large Particles or 3) Supplements and additives. Most mushroom composts fall in the high porosity group #1 with Peat and most sands. Group #2, Aerated is Perlite, Gravel and Lava Rocks. Group # 3 are the Mineral Supplements Limestone and Fertilizers which are a very small portion (although essential) of the mix ingredients. IMO, you will get much better growth by keeping the Aerated portion of the mix greater that ~50%. This is not to imply that you won't get good growth in the denser mixes, Its just been my observation at several different fig growing locations that faster healthier grow results from a more aerated mix. One simple way of testing your mix is to make a small portion at the designed ratios, then sift it through a 1/4" sieve to separate out the particles, the more aerated mix will have more large particles remaining above the 1/4' mesh.

Aaron4USA

Registered:1375832059
Posts: 2,969

Posted 1417893911	Reply with quote #13

Quote: Originally Posted by ascpete Aaron, Thanks... That ratio is; 4-3-1 50% - 37.5% - 12.5% (Wood Chips - Peat - Perlite). BTW regular Miracle-Gro is usually only about 15% Perlite. How long have you grown in this mix? and How have your harvests been? Thanks. Pete, I started to adjust the mix to this particular combo when we just entered summer and my cuttings were getting a bit stunted (I assumed would be due to space and lack of nutrients) so I started slowly to re-pot them into 3-4G pots using this mix. I always thought the perlite content was 25...i'll check next time I am in Home Depot, Maybe they had some different bag that had good deal going at that time, I think I payed $14/bag. Basically what I want to achieve is this: Have a porous mix with nice moisture holding ability. Aeration seems to be very important for Fig roots.

FiggyFrank

Registered:1347560723
Posts: 2,713

Posted 1417894876	Reply with quote #14

Thank you for sharing this info, Pete. Great info! Here is what I used for my 5 gallon SIPs. On some trees, I only used Pro-Mix BX and Osmocote but had outstanding results on both formulas. 5 parts Pro-Mix BX 1 part perlite 32oz (capacity) earthworm castings 1 heaping Tblspn Osmocote pellets (flower & vegetable 14-14-14) __________________ Frank zone 7a - VA

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,719

Posted 1417895067 · Edited	Reply with quote #15

Here is what I have been mixing. -1 Bag EKO organic potting mix (1.5 cubic ft/42.5 L) Ingredients off of bag: Peat Moss, Fir Bark, Compost, Perlite, Alfalfa meal, Kelp Meal, and Dehydrated Poultry Manure -3 gallons Pine bark 1/4" screen -1 blue bag (8qt) Epsoma Perlite, Screened ~1.5 cups Kelp meal ~1 cup Dolomite Limestone ~1.5 cups Azomite ~1 cup Plant tone 5-3-3 ~1 cup crab shell This year I made some tweaks to it and added an additional ~Heavy 1/2 cup Irontone ~1 cup Espoma Garden Lime It seems like a lot of stuff, but it's all right there on the shelf. I mix it on/with a tarp and just go down the line with my one cup scoop.. Each time I up-pot I add a some Bio-tone starter plus to each pot, maybe a Tblspn for a pot smaller than a gallon and ~1/4 cup for a tree that will jump 2-3 gallons in size. I started using the Bio-Tone in a couple starts last spring, I got a free sample package from a local nursery. Those experimental plants had better color and growth than their sisters(control) with all else being equal. These plants also exhibited more continuous growth vs growth spurts. So I started using it during every up-pot. This year my plants had the best color(no lime green leaves) and universally healthy leaves so far and zero burn. I use a dilute hydro-organic fertilizer every 2-3 waterings as well. I imagine I could probably get up to 30% more growth if I used Miracle Grow or Dyna, but I'm a purist and try keep it organic as possible and the annual growth is acceptable for me. Pete, do you think that Kelp Meal would be a good source of silica as well all the other minerals it supplies? __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

FiggyFrank

Registered:1347560723
Posts: 2,713

Posted 1417896523	Reply with quote #16

Calvin, I purchased a bag of azomite about a month ago with plans to use next spring when I up-pot some trees. How much would you add to a 5 gallon bucket of Pro-Mix? __________________ Frank zone 7a - VA

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,719

Posted 1417897501	Reply with quote #17

Hmm..maybe 1/2 cup to a heavy 1/2 cup? You can't really overdo it, the only way you could would be by adding too much ultra-fine particulate matter to the mix. I would look at it as...that should be enough for the plant to be able to extract whatever beneficial minerals it needs. The best way would probably be to do a few with some variance and record the results. __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417898383 · Edited	Reply with quote #18

Frank, Thanks for commenting and sharing your info. I've seen the pictures that you've shared on the forum. That ratio for SIPs is; 2.5-1 ratio 70% - 30% (Peat/5% worm castings - perlite) Calvin, Thanks for commenting and sharing you info. Your ratio is approximately; 1-4-1 ratio 15% - 70% - 15% (pine bark - Peat/5% additives - perlite) I typically use the Bio-tone Starter only for 1 gallon and smaller containers. I rely on the Mycorrhizae of the Espoma-Tones in the larger containers. I've not used kelp meal alone, instead I rely on natural compost to return all the required trace minerals back to the garden. Soil, Sand, Clay and Calcined Clay are also good sources of available Silica, which is one reason why I added Calcined Clay to my potting mix recipe.

drphil69

Registered:1390113240
Posts: 803

Posted 1417898465	Reply with quote #19

Thanks for the great info Pete! I had no idea that MG was mostly peat moss. Aaron - you use actual wood chips, not bark chips? Do you find you need to add extra nitrogen and the mix breaks down and compacts pretty fast? i.e. have you tried it on larger pots where the mix needs to keep several years or just on smaller ones where you are up potting at least once a year? __________________ Phil - Zone 7A - Newark, DE Newbie fig lover just trying to learn.

Aaron4USA

Registered:1375832059
Posts: 2,969

Posted 1417899054	Reply with quote #20

Phil, my wood chip pile is from neighbor's tree when they shredded it. (so, I guess it's mixed?) I don't know how long I will be able to keep the up-potted ones in 3-4 Gallons. I have heard from others too that eventually it will settle , as the bigger mass solids decompose. I do add liquid fertilizer in the water. Haven't used all the other face stuff like gravel, cement sand, Azomite, Dolomite, shells and corals...YET. I'm not there yet.

FiggyFrank

Registered:1347560723
Posts: 2,713

Posted 1417899059	Reply with quote #21

Quote: Originally Posted by cis4elk Hmm..maybe 1/2 cup to a heavy 1/2 cup? You can't really overdo it, the only way you could would be by adding too much ultra-fine particulate matter to the mix. I would look at it as...that should be enough for the plant to be able to extract whatever beneficial minerals it needs. The best way would probably be to do a few with some variance and record the results. Thanks, Calvin. I had such good results last year, I'm hesitant to make changes. With nothing but good things I've heard about azomite, I am willing to give it a shot. Quote: Originally Posted by ascpete Frank, Thanks for commenting and sharing your info. I've seen the pictures that you've shared on the forum. That ratio for SIPs is; 2.5-1 ratio 70% - 30% (Peat/5% worm castings - perlite) Thanks Pete! __________________ Frank zone 7a - VA

zone5figger

Registered:1395082963
Posts: 250

Posted 1417899229	Reply with quote #22

Pete, thanks for compiling those recipes and posting up some tried and true mixes. I like to know what others are doing that's been proven to work. This is a timely thread for me, looking at filling a lot of pots in couple months. Calvin, I like that mix with the time-release organic materials, I've made some similar mixes as well, but geared toward annual veg. I was thinking about something similar for figs, so it's nice to read your mix. I've always included wormcastings as an additive for the probiotic boost. I've also included biochar in some of my mixes, and see that as a good aerating component. __________________ Jesse- zone 5, 1000' elevation

RichinNJ

Registered:1374784282
Posts: 1,687

Posted 1417899265 · Edited	Reply with quote #23

Quote: Originally Posted by ascpete Many members have discussed and posted their preferred mixes, the major ingredients of some are listed below for comparison to a few custom mixes... Containers.. Miracle-Gro: 85% - 15% (peat - perlite) Fertilome UPM: 85% - 15% (peat - perlite). Pro-Mix BX: 85% - 15% (peat - perlite). Pro-Mix HP: 75% - 25% (peat - perlite). Fafard52: 60% - 30% - 10% (pinebark - peat - perlite) 5-1-1: 71.4% - 14.3% - 14.3% (pine bark - peat - perlite). 5-1-1-1: 62.5% - 12.5% - 12.5% - -12.5% (pine bark - peat - perlite - calcined clay) Gritty Mix: 33% - 33% - 34% (pine bark - ganite grit - calcined clay) Sub Irrigated Planters (SIPs) BillsFigs: 100% Mushroom Compost Miracle-Gro: 85% - 15% (peat - perlite) Pro-Mix BX: 85% - 15% (peat - perlite) 4-2-1-1: 50% - 25% - 12.5% - -12.5% (pine bark - peat - perlite - calcined clay) Several members have used commercial mixes with added portions of Perlite, Lava Rocks etc. for added aeration and or Manure Compost, Mushroom Compost etc for added nutrients and organic humus. Its been my observation that container grown fig trees will grow in almost any medium but will grow faster and healthier in a well aerated mix. I use the custom 5-1-1-1 mix, there are many merits of this mix and with the addition of 1 part Calcined clay the water holding capacity is increased while maintaining the beneficial aeration. The mix is still good (reuseable) after 3 seasons of use. I used the 4-2-1-1 mix successfully last season in SIPs. I plan on trialing 2 new mixes longterm, the 5-1-1-1 mix without peat as mentioned by Al Tapla in one of the discussions and a Gravel - Sand mix which Ive trialed successfully with fig culture. What is your current potting mix recipe for Containers and or SIPs? Links to info on potting mix ingredients... http://www.greenhouse.cornell.edu/crops/factsheets/peatlite.pdf http://www.turface.com/sites/default/files/landscape_brochure.pdf http://earthbox.com/earthbox-pdf/EB-WEB-INSTRUCTIONS_NEW-2.pdf http://earthbox.com/earthbox-pdf/replant-instructions-1.pdf Archived discussions on potting mixes...@Figs4Fun http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/consensus-on-potting-mix-6416224?&trail=50 http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=6704202 Archived discussions on potting mixes...@ GardenWeb http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bonsai/msg0219033011437.html http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg1221344425812.html http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0323131520631.html http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0914024623640.html http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0921071615772.html Quote: Originally Posted by Al Tapla, The basic soils I use The 5-1-1 mix: 5 parts pine bark fines (partially composted fines are best) 1 part sphagnum peat (not reed or sedge peat please) 1-2 parts perlite garden lime (or gypsum in some cases) controlled release fertilizer (if preferred) Big batch; 3 cu ft pine bark fines 5 gallons peat 5 gallons perlite 2 cups dolomitic (garden) lime (or gypsum in some cases) 2 cups CRF (if preferred) Small batch; 3 gallons pine bark 1/2 gallon peat 1/2 gallon perlite 4 tbsp lime (or gypsum in some cases) 1/4 cup CRF (if preferred) I have seen advice that some highly organic (practically speaking - almost all container soils are highly organic) container soils are productive for up to 5 years or more. I disagree and will explain why if there is interest. Even if you were to substitute fir bark for pine bark in this recipe (and this recipe will long outlast any peat based soil) you should only expect a maximum of two to three years life before a repot is in order. Usually perennials, including trees (they're perennials too) should be repotted more frequently to insure they can grow at as close to their genetic potential within the limits of other cultural factors as possible. If a soil is desired that will retain structure for long periods, we need to look more to inorganic components. Some examples are crushed granite, fine stone, VERY coarse sand (see above - usually no smaller than BB size in containers, please), Haydite, lava rock (pumice), Turface, calcined DE, and others. For long term (especially woody) plantings and houseplants, I use a superb soil that is extremely durable and structurally sound. The basic mix is equal parts of pine bark, Turface, and crushed granite. The gritty mix: 1 part uncomposted screened pine or fir bark (1/8-1/4") 1 part screened Turface 1 part crushed Gran-I-Grit (grower size) or #2 cherrystone 1 Tbsp gypsum per gallon of soil (eliminate if your fertilizer has Ca) CRF (if desired) I use 1/8 -1/4 tsp Epsom salts (MgSO4) per gallon of fertilizer solution when I fertilize if the fertilizer does not contain Mg (check your fertilizer - if it is soluble, it is probable it does not contain Ca or Mg. If I am using my currently favored fertilizer (I use it on everything), Dyna-Gro's Foliage-Pro in the 9-3-6 formulation, and I don't use gypsum or Epsom salts in the fertilizer solution. Hate to tell you this Pete but your percentages have many mistakes and omissions. For example your MG recipe is incorrect as is your Fafard. Unfortunately I see so much of your "research" as opinion and pseudo-science I've given up paying attention to most of it. Others should also view your "results" as suspect.

Ampersand

Registered:1389979527
Posts: 728

Posted 1417904826	Reply with quote #24

How about those figs!

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417905459	Reply with quote #25

Phil, You're welcome, Thanks for commenting. Zone5figger, You're welcome, Thanks for commenting. I haven't had reason to use much Bio char other than small inconclusive experiments, but have read that it works wonders for problem soils. I do however use the Espoma-Tone fertilizers, Gypsum and Locally sourced pulverized Dolemite Limestone which provide most of the nutrient requirements of potted Fig Trees. Rich, Thanks for commenting. Quote: Originally Posted by RichinNJ, Hate to tell you this Pete but your percentages have many mistakes and omissions. For example your MG recipe is incorrect as is your Fafard. Unfortunately I see so much of your "research" as opinion and pseudo-science I've given up paying attention to most of it. Others should also view your "results" as suspect. The manufacturers' ratios and documentation have been discussed and linked in other Potting Mix topics, they can also be Googled for verification. Also most manufacturers will place a +/- 5% disclaimer on their ingredient content... Since I round out my ratios I may also have to put a +/- disclaimer of ~2% on ratio calculations. BTW The info and documentation contained in the OP was collected from Web searches, Fig4Fun Forum archives and from GardenWeb archives, most of my conclusions from the actual hands on tests are just that, my opinion and I have always stated that... I've chosen to share the results for replication and review. I am happy to engage in discourse on the subject of this topic.

Frankallen

Registered:1371842383
Posts: 994

Posted 1417914180	Reply with quote #26

Thanks a lot Pete! That is some very valuable information..Will try some of these Mixes. Thank You,for taking the time to post this .....:) __________________ Frank from Bama- Zone 7-b Alabama .................................................... "Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever". Mahatma Gandhi

Charlie

Registered:1404043833
Posts: 1,214

Posted 1417922636	Reply with quote #27

John at Almost Eden emailed their potting mix recipe. Would it be appropriate to paste it here? Maybe I should ask John first. Every plant I got from them was outstanding. Thanks for the efforts here. __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417929097	Reply with quote #28

Frank, You're welcome and thanks for commenting. When I first started growing figs I trialed Al Tapla's posted recipes and used them successfully. I've tried other recipes, but have found that the modified 5-1-1 has been the best overall performer, combining the benefits of 5-1-1 and the Gritty Mix. Charlie, You're welcome and thanks for commenting. I've purchased several small fig trees from Almost Eden and they used a large portion of sand in their mix. Please post the recipe, it's completely on topic and will be appreciated, especially if its used to grow fig trees.

Ampersand

Registered:1389979527
Posts: 728

Posted 1417963182	Reply with quote #29

Quote: Originally Posted by ascpete Kelby, Thanks for commenting and sharing your info... Do you know (can you find out) the approximate ratio of major ingredients? It can be used in comparisons... Thanks. My best guess is something like 3 to 4-1-1 Peat-Pine Fines-Perlite. It resembles a well fluffed seedling starting mix. Since it's fresh when I get it's really light and airy. Do you have any info on how long some of these mixes can last before compacting and needing to repot? My reading indicates 2-3 years for 5-1-1 and 3-5 years for Gritty Mix.

Charlie

Registered:1404043833
Posts: 1,214

Posted 1417965870	Reply with quote #30

Quote: Originally Posted by ascpete Frank, Charlie, You're welcome and thanks for commenting. I've purchased several small fig trees from Almost Eden and they used a large portion of sand in their mix. Please post the recipe, it's completely on topic and will be appreciated, especially if its used to grow fig trees. Potting Soil mixture. This based on 1/3 yard tractor scoop: 4 scoops pine bark mulch, fine-ground 1 3.5 cu. Ft. bale peat moss 1 scoop of Hadite ½ scoop sand 6 lb 18-6-12 Osmocote 8-9 mo. 4 lb 14-14-14 Osmocote 3-4 mo. 4 lb 0-46-0 12 lb dolomitic lime (brown pellets) 2 lb Mag-trace elements 2 lb wetting granules We add extra hadite for cactus mix, as we use it. Perlite could be used instead. When I feed it is with Osmocote 14-14-14, no burn, slow-release, but seldom fall feed, as do not want tender top groth in winter freezes. Hadite is the stuff cinder blocks are made from, used for aeration. Thank You & Good Growing, John McMillian Almost Eden __________________ Zone 7A ~ Fort Smith area Arkansas

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417976296	Reply with quote #31

Kelby, Thanks for the reply. That ratio is ~; Nursery Mix 3.5-1-1 17.5% - 65% - 17.5% (pine bark mulch - peat - perlite) I don't have any more info than published by manufacturers. I dumped out approximately 2 cubic yards of used 5-1-1-1 mix out of containers at the beginning of this past season. It was in use for 2 years and all still in good condition, with only a loss of some of the fines and peat (to decay and leaching). There was minimal signs of compaction of the mix. These 2 year old trees that were pulled from their buckets were root bound or almost root bound after only 2 years in the 5 gallon buckets. At the end of this season, 3 years of use, the mix is still not compacted, but all the 1 year and older trees have to be root pruned. . IMO, the trees would require root pruning long before the mix was decayed and compacted. My guess would be 3 - 5 years service life of a 5-1-1-1 mix. Charlie, Thanks for posting the recipe. Almost Eden's ratio is ~; AE mix 4-1-1-1/2 60% - 16% - 16% - 8% (pine bark mulch - peat - hadite - sand)

rcantor

Registered:1309799312
Posts: 5,727

Posted 1417994813 · Edited	Reply with quote #32

Quote: Originally Posted by ascpete Almost Eden's ratio is ~; AE mix 4-1-1-1/2 60% - 16% - 16% - 8% (pine bark mulch - peat - hadite - sand) This based on 1/3 yard tractor scoop: 4 scoops pine bark mulch, fine-ground 1 3.5 cu. Ft. bale peat moss 1 scoop of Hadite ½ scoop sand Er, the amount of peat and hadite can't be the same and the peat can't be double the sand. Here's how I figure it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 1 Cu Yard = 27 Cu foot 1/3 Cu Yard = 1 scoop = 9 Cu foot 4 scoops = 36 Cu' 1/2 scoop = 4.5 Cu' Bark, 'Pete', hadite, sand 36 + 3.5 + 9 + 4.5 = 53 Cu' of mix 68%, 7%, 17%, 8% Bark, 'Pete', hadite, sand I will continue to harass you until you sell me a subscription ;) __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1417995921	Reply with quote #33

Bob C, Thanks for commenting. You've harassed your way onto my subscription list for next year *; )* This year has poor pickings due to extreme die back... What's your current mix and ratios? A 3.5 Cu Ft bale expands to ~ 7 Cu Ft. I usually place the additives in the "Peat" portion and that's the reason for the final ratios...

rcantor

Registered:1309799312
Posts: 5,727

Posted 1417999960 · Edited	Reply with quote #34

I stand corrected, thanks. As for me, I can't get pine bark fines and anything commercial is too expensive. I order 3-7 cu yards of large pine bark chunks (PBC) and shovel that into a pot until it's about 1/3 full depending on how deep I want the new plant. The name (PBC) is deceptive because there's lots of mechanical breakage so there's everything from dust to 3x7" pieces. 2 years ago I scored dozens of free 5 - 40 gal pots and enough 7 gal pots that I used the 7 gals for almost everything to evaluate and 10 - 30 gals for some of the higher end stuff. This year it was dust to 2x2x1" chunks. Much more fine stuff than last year. I make a mix: 64% peat moss or Pro-mix HP or both, 12% Napa floor dry, 8% each of worm castings, cow manure, Espoma Tomato Tone. Those are very approximate numbers. Nothing is measured and sometimes things are substituted or added. I put a 1" layer of mix in the pot on top of the 1/3 full pine bark chunks. I alternate PBC and mix probably about 3:1 by volume until the plant is situated and the pot is almost full. If it's Spring I put in some osmocote and cover that with a layer of PBC. I always bury as many nodes as practical in case a freeze destroys the upper part of the plant. This is for up potting established plants. To pot recently rooted cuttings I use 90% Promix HP, 5% PBC and 5% mix with some osmocote on top. Last year I up potted almost everything from 1 gal to 7 gal. This year I ordered extra PBC to cover my inground Hardy Chicago and cover the mudway from my back porch to the open ground. The reason I didn't post this before was that the last 2 years have been so bleak that I can't promise that this is a good way of doing things. One plant grows to 6' in 2 months with a nice, thick stem and the one next to it has a few thin branches that hardly grow at all. Neither bear good fruit. I mostly blame the weather but I can't be sure the soil isn't part of the problem. Hopefully next year the weather will be great and I can evaluate the soil more accurately. __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1418008391	Reply with quote #35

Pete In post # 12 you state that Peat is high porosity, and perlite is in group No.2, aerating. Now, Pro-mix hp refers to high porosity, and that is because the formula calls for more perlite in the mix than the Pro-mix bx I believe it is called. So my question is, if more peat means Porosity for you, and more Perlite means aeration, why do they call it Pro-mix HP if it has more perlite? Thanks Rafael __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

timclymer

Registered:1300323432
Posts: 305

Posted 1418009773	Reply with quote #36

I use a modified version of Al's 5-1-1 and wrote an article on it a while back: http://www.threefoldfarm.org/blog/making-your-own-potting-mix I've seen tremendous results with this used in conjunction with a drip irrigation system and a bit of fertigation. I've also really liked using Root Pouch pots, though I haven't done real serious comparisons in terms of the results achieved versus plastic pots. I'll have to keep an eye on this thread as I've been looking for a mix that has the qualities of my current one but can be made even more inexpensively (ideally with locally sourced ingredients). Interesting that Bill's Figs uses 100% mushroom soil. We've used 100% mushroom soil in our vegetable beds and have seen great results with it, but I wasn't sure whether it would drain well enough in pots. I imagine it holds up pretty well if he's been using it. __________________ http://threefoldfarm.org - Fig trees and farm updates https://www.facebook.com/ThreefoldFarm South Central PA (6b,7a) Want List: Ital 258, any figs found growing in PA, NJ, or NY

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1418015697 · Edited	Reply with quote #37

Bob C, Thanks for the reply and the detailed info. I've never done this but, a small wood chipper could be used to reduce the large chunks to make uniform sized Bark Mulch for the potting mix. Rafael, There is a bit of confusion with the technical term "*soil porosity" and the adjective porous. The smaller the mix particles, the larger the volume of air spaces, this also increases water holding ability, and increases soil porosity. Porous and porosity is also used to describe the larger air spaces and air volume held in soil which is partly where the confusion arises. When I first started making custom potting mixes over a decade ago, the terminology was confusing, so I made the distinction between Porous or quantity of small air spaces* and *Aerated or quantity of large air spaces, because its easier for me to visualize, one is fine grained and the other is large particles. Its the difference between a 32 oz. container of Peat and a 32 oz. container of Coarse Perlite, the peat container will hold much more water because it has higher soil porosity. ProMix-HP is refering to the increased Aeration* of the mix caused by the additional Perlite, but technically they are *actually decreasing the soil porosity*, by decreasing the quantity of small air spaces. Hope this helps.... Many other manufacturers make the actual distinction between soil porosity and aeration in their descriptions. Tim, Thanks for posting and sharing your mix recipe and results. Congratulations and Good Luck with the new farm... That website had been linked in another topic, and I had planned on liking it in this topic. I use the same brands of Bark and Perlite but use the Premier or another Canadian brand Peat Moss I'm also looking at locally available ingredient alternatives which is why I'm trialing a few Sand-Gravel Mixes (with a compost/mulch top layer) that were successful in the past.

rcantor

Registered:1309799312
Posts: 5,727

Posted 1418019069 · Edited	Reply with quote #38

Quote: Originally Posted by ascpete I'm trialing a few Sand-Gravel Mixes (with a compost/mulch top layer) that were successful in the past. And you're going to do the shuffle with 5-10 gallon pots of this? At least they wont blow over. __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

timclymer

Registered:1300323432
Posts: 305

Posted 1418046817	Reply with quote #39

Thanks Pete. We're very excited about the farm. Would love to have ya come down to talk soils and figs sometime! This whole thread has me thinking about potting soils and the desired characteristics for trees. Here are the characteristics I could think of that are important to me, not necessarily in order of importance. I wonder if some of these characteristics might have to come at the expensive of another (ie - highly organic vs. longevity). Inexpensive - Locally-available ingredients in large quantities Long-lasting - Ideally 3ish years Aerated and porous Water-retention - High but without compromising aeration and porousity Heavy - For stability, but not overly heavy (ability to move 15-25 gallon pot with just 1 person) Highly organic pH - 6.5-7 Ideally also: Simple to mix - 5 or less ingredients in easy-to-mix proportions Fungally dominated (been reading a lot about this lately...not sure if this is ideal or realistic though in a container environment) Sand/gravel mixes are interesting to me for the fact that you can get them in such large quantities very inexpensively (which probably explains their use at larger nurseries). Will be excited to see how your experiments pan out. I appreciate your analytical nature, Pete. Some of these like aeration and stability could also likely be influenced by the container as well. __________________ http://threefoldfarm.org - Fig trees and farm updates https://www.facebook.com/ThreefoldFarm South Central PA (6b,7a) Want List: Ital 258, any figs found growing in PA, NJ, or NY

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1418059363 · Edited	Reply with quote #40

Bob C, Yes, the sand based mix would be used in 5 - 10 gallon containers, and the weight would be a benefit for top heavy trees. I've had very healthy root growth in a mix of mostly 1/2" crushed Gravel (Blue Stone Gravel) and Coarse Concrete sand. Tim, You're welcome. I'd love to help, though my knowledge on soils and fig trees is at the hobbyist level. As I mentioned in the OP most of the information is already posted on the Internet. The understanding of How and Why the ingredients are used in the mixes can lead to ingredients that can be substituted from locally available material. That's why I've done ingredient comparisons between the different mixes. The pH and Nutrients can be included at the final stages because there is an enormous amount of information and experience readily available. I'll be happy to PM results on the different sand mixes and ratios next season. Since fertilizers and additives are more personalized I usually disregard the fertilizer portions of the mix recipes personally opting for a simple organic approach. IMO, good Compost, topsoil and or Peat seeded with Espoma-tone Organics and mineral additives can provide all the nutrients and beneficial soil microbes needed for healthy growth, even in completely inert mixes. Containers definitely influence growth, Ive used spun landscape fabric as pot liners and it increases root branching, decreasing the quantity of large tap roots.

zone5figger

Registered:1395082963
Posts: 250

Posted 1418061495	Reply with quote #41

Regarding Pine Bark Fines, are these similar composted pine bark mulch or are they 'raw' and not broken down? I called my local lumber yard, they sell 'fresh' pine bark mulch $12 a yard, wondering if it would work as in a mix or if I'd need to compost it first. __________________ Jesse- zone 5, 1000' elevation

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1418062287	Reply with quote #42

Zone5figger, Partially composted is recommended, but the composting can be hastened by adding soil microbes like Mycorrhizae. http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0212444023053.html

Ingevald

Registered:1200844977
Posts: 312

Posted 1418065642	Reply with quote #43

This is an excellent thread. I am appreciative of the information being shared. I am still learning about soil mixes and slowly experiment over time. I started off with a modified "gritty mix" of equal portions of coarse perlite, small pine bark bits and calcined clay. I added dolomitic limestone to the mix, minimum 2 cups per 20 gallons of mix. I've started adding more over the years based on reports from others. I found that this mix resulted in a good distribution of roots but did dry out rapidly. The well distributed root mass was really amazing, contrasting to the issue of the roots all ending up in the bottom of the pot. I've since modified it by adding to the mix above about %25 well decomposed compost and some medium sized sand. It seems to be better for my purposes. I also have experimented with different fertilizers but think that is not within the scope of this thread and don't have any worthwhile conclusions at this time. I've not studied container mixes in great depth, but have relied on suggested mixes (and supplement recommendations) from others. I checked with some fig growers a few years ago and found that mixes were all over the map, yet were very satisfactory for each of the growers. Here are a few. (dolomitic limestone is added to all) 1) Gritty mix - already mentioned 2) Gritty mix mixed 50:50 with ProMix or Ultimate Potting Mix 3) 2 parts pinebark (small size), 1 part composted cow manure, 1 part perlite and a handful of ground limestone. 4) ProMix (or other quality potting mix) but adding more perlite 5) Equal parts of a) composted "top soil" b) calcined clay c) coco bean hulls or shells d) coir 6) mixture of top soil & compost, pine bark and perlite - equal proportions of these three 7) Composted manure, perlite and well composted compost - equal proportions 8) Some folks were experimenting by substituting peat with coir (coconut fiber) 9) Bill Muzychko's mix http://figs4fun.com/bills_figs.html "The mix has lots of organics in it. It has a lot of dirt in it" Don't know the exact details, but his large container grown figs look great. Some of the above have probably already been mentioned. I just think that it is interesting that a diverse variety of mixes works well. Aside from the basic soil mix, other important factors include: watering schedule, fertilizer & mineral supplements, mycorrhizae, pot size, soil temp, sun exposure, etc. Byron (Ingevald)

rcantor

Registered:1309799312
Posts: 5,727

Posted 1418071975	Reply with quote #44

I encourage all my container grown figs to root into the ground. They don't blow over, the container mix and size is less critical and root pruning is automatic :) Most do so in their second year without any special treatment. I pull up as much of the external roots as I can when bringing them in for the winter as a head start for next year. __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1418141180 · Edited	Reply with quote #45

Byron, Thanks for commenting and sharing your info. Yes, testing the potting mixes with actual growing plants results in real time information on their behavior under different locations and growing conditions. Fig growers use mixes that "are all over the map" but there are many common properties between all these mixes. Common variables among the different mixes can be repeated or substitutes can be made (found) for individual ingredients. IMO, the starting reference point should be the ingredient ratios of successful potting mixes. The ratio of particle size and material properties can lead to mixes with completely different ingredients, but the similar porosity, aeration and plant growing properties. for example, I've found that crushed gravel or pea gravel works as a good substitute for Perlite in a potting mix, it reduces compaction which increases aeration, but the drawback is a small additional weight to the mix. Calcined Clay is a good substitute for vermiculite, it has similar properties, again the only drawback is the small additional dry weight. One commonality between perennial (long lived) commercial potting mixes and successful custom mixes is pine bark mulch/fines. Comparisons of the ratios and particle sizes can lead to more locally available possible substitutions. Bob C, I've tried that procedure http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=4728896 and had commented on its success in another topic. When a well aerated potting mix (low peat or fines) is used and mulch is mounded above the drainage holes or the pot is partially buried, the roots will quickly grow out into the mounded mulch and ground usually within only a few months. Side holes near the bottom of the pot works best. <Edit>

Vitalia_Young

Registered:1418180498
Posts: 4

Posted 1418203102	Reply with quote #46

Hello, I am a new member and I joined in behalf of my father who's started growing fig trees just recently. I saw this thread and shared it to my dad, he said that it was a very useful information. Thanks for sharing this info Mister Ascpete we greatly appreciate it.

GRamaley

Registered:1357742252
Posts: 791

Posted 1418221093	Reply with quote #47

Thanks Pete, it is always better to have more information, no one mix is perfect, no matter what anyone says. Having more information help you know how to adjust for your climate and situation. I rely a lot on what Dennis posts because he have successfully grown and rooting a ton of fig trees in my area. It would be silly to think one person has the answer for everyone.... __________________ Gloria --------------- 7a, maybe 8

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1418225844	Reply with quote #48

Vitalia Young, Welcome to the Forum Community. You're welcome. Thanks for commenting. You may wish to start a new topic introducing yourself to the forum community. Gloria, You're welcome and thanks for commenting. Although I agree that there is no "one perfect mix" due to the different ingredients, locations and personal preferences, decades of published research shows that there are quantitative properties (water and air retention) that can be applied to all growing mediums which can insure optimal growing conditions. The basic properties of proven mixes can be compared to similar available materials to achieve similar success with available materials. One example is the Nursery Industries' use of high % Peat Moss in annual mixes and high % Pine Bark fines in perennial mixes. They are used for cost and weight but also for the measured properties that they bring to the potting mix, water retention, air retention, etc. One anecdote that I have personally used is that "the 5-1-1 or Gritty mix dries out too fast but is a good mix for growing figs", it has lower water retention and higher aeration. Automated irrigation could solve this problem which would allow it to be used almost anywhere, but most have opted to use more water retentive mixes or modify the recipes. Another example of quantitative properties is the rooting of dormant fig cuttings. The two major variables that can determine success rates are temperature and humidity around the cutting. IMO, regardless of the dozens of procedures and techniques used when the temperature is maintained within a narrow optimal range (72* - 78*F) the humidity is also easily held at its optimal range (85% - 90% RH) and it results in the highest rooting success rates.

waynea

Registered:1362316304
Posts: 1,886

Posted 1418253368	Reply with quote #49

Welcome to the forum Vitalia, please start a thread as a new member with intro and you will get several more welcomes.

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1418406207 · Edited	Reply with quote #50

Waynea, Thanks for commenting. Please share your answer to the OP question. What is your current potting mix recipe for Containers and or SIPs? Thanks.

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next

Modal title

Mahatma Gandhi

Insert Code

Please paste your code into the box below: