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Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > "The Big Kill"....Winter of 2013 - 2014
 
 


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Ekierk

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Posted Reply with quote  #101 
Anyone have a happy story about a in ground surviving? My 5 1 year old potted figs all survived this winter. It got down to 9 degrees where they were and stayed below freezing for weeks on in. They are just budding out now.
BronxFigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #102 
Hello Viv-

Tough to read about your Col de Dame Blanc.   I wish it was different.

Yes, fig growers are special.  They "bond" to their special trees.  The "Red Italian" (unidentified) that I grew from a skinny twig was my dad's favorite fig.  He couldn't wait for me to bring him some ripe figs from this tree each morning.  While sitting in his favorite spot at the kitchen table, he could look past the screen doors leading to the back deck where this tree was growing.  He loved it when song sparrows landed on the branches and rested in the cool shade.  My mom, whose memory was erased by Dementia, had no idea who I was anymore, but when I brought her some 'Atreano' figs, her eyes got brighter, and remembered happier times, I'm sure. 

Both parents are gone, the trees are gone, memories and some poignant tears, remain.  I will continue to grow fig trees because they connect me to my past.  They provide a cure for what ails you.


Frank
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noss

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Posted Reply with quote  #103 
Hey Frank.

I will grow the Red Italian tree I have in your dad's memory.  It's doing well this year and has a few little figs on it.  It had figs on it even when it was little more than a stick.  I lost the one, but the second one is still doing its best to grow.  (I picked the figs off of the trees the first season they were here.)  It's amazing to see something that tiny wanting to produce fruit, isn't it?

This would be a good time to have people check in here to report if their fig trees that froze and are coming back produce fruit on the first year's, or not.  I was wondering about that the other day.

Went to a good friend's camp today, North of here, to see his fig and fruit trees after he drastically pruned them.  The camp is not really a camp and the large piece of land has huge live oaks at the front part that are so beautiful and are hung with Spanish Moss.  His orchard has other kinds of fruit trees, but mostly fig trees.  He lost his Satsuma trees, but the Navel Orange trees are still alive.  The Owari Satsuma trees are really tough, so just that farther North of here made a big difference.  I pulled all my citrus trees under the carport and covered them with sheets over the very cold weather and they did fine, but being in pots will never produce a lot of fruit.  My Owari Satsuma in the ground in the front yard did fine without protection.  There were quite a few that died back to the ground, but are sending up shoots and a few that are stone cold gone.  Improved Celestes died back, but most are sending up shoots.  His O'Rourke didn't cave and is looking wonderful, as is one of his improved Celestes that is near the O'Rourke.  I wonder if that's a space that could qualify as a micro climate spot.  He said it was the really cold North winds that knocked down his trees.  Some split, so there was sap running when the cold hit.  It was good to see all the new shoots coming up, so that's a good report.

Am wondering how all the big fig trees at LSU did over the winter.  Those trees are pretty close together and I wonder if they protect each other.  They have very thick trunks because of their ages.  I hope the trees did well.

With spring, comes hope,

noss
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noss/a.k.a. Vivian Lafayette, LA Zone 9a Wish List: Col de Dame Blanc, Col de Dame Noir, Scott's Yellow, Tony's Brown Italian, any other fig that is good in the rain/humidity and has a real figgy flavor.
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Posted Reply with quote  #104 
Thanks, Vivienne.....

Interesting to read about your citrus trees, and very good luck with your fig trees.


Frank
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ADelmanto

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Posted Reply with quote  #105 
I think I've lost 100 figs in 3-10 gal pots. Very disappointing.
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noss

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Posted Reply with quote  #106 
Hello Aaron,

I was just telling my husband, Mike, about all the losses of so many fig trees up North from this harsh winter.  He says he's sorry to hear about the loss of so many of the very old trees because, though he does not eat figs, he knows how much they mean to us who do.  He knows how I fuss over my little trees, so his heart is with you and everyone up North, or anywhere in the country where the winter hit hard.

Where did you keep your trees that you think you've lost?  That's a lot of trees, but perhaps there is hope that at least some of them will come back and I hope that will be the case.

"Francois",

Thanks for your good wishes.

I have to keep the Key Limes in pots because they are the least cold hardy and would be the most easily killed, next would come the Meyer Lemon.  I don't know why the Owari in the ground in the front yard is still alive, no damage, when it is so young and my friend's large, older trees died, except my front yard seems to be a micro climate.  The Alma trees that were left out, with the LSU Purples and Golds, along with the Giant Celeste and the LSU Golden Celeste were fine in the garden area along the front of the house.  They stood back under the 3' eave of the front of the house.

My friend's trees might fare better if he planted a giant bamboo wind break between his trees and where the North winds sweep in.  The trees that did best and got the least cold damage are the ones that are closer to the treeline of thick growth along the fence-line.  His plum and pear trees seemed to love the winter.  But here, we have to watch that we don't cut out the air flow because it will help disease and pests thrive.  Can't win for losing.....

No matter where you live, some of our beloved fruit tree are going to take a hit at some time.  Mother Nature doesn't care how we feel, she just is and we either work with her, or she's going to run right over us.  Thanks so much, MOM!

"Vivienne"
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rgoldsm841

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Posted Reply with quote  #107 
Hello please advise to cut down the tree or not to cut down the tree...that is the question.  My 15 foot Celeste has not leafed out.  Like Frank we had a devastatingly cold winter in Baltimore.  This tree is at least 5" in diameter and is somewhat green when the scratch test is given.  I must say is certainly looks dead but Im not really ready to let it go....
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Leslie Goldsmith
noss

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Posted Reply with quote  #108 
Hello Leslie,

Don't cut it down just yet.  Is the trunk split anywhere?  There's a good chance that, even if the main part of the tree was killed, it will sprout from the roots (I hope it will.)  If it sprouts from the roots, people tell me it won't bear fruit the first year of the kill.  Don't know why because Celestes are producing fools, but that's what I'm told.  If you're getting green when you scratch it, that's a good sign.  Hang in there with it awhile longer and good luck.

noss
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noss/a.k.a. Vivian Lafayette, LA Zone 9a Wish List: Col de Dame Blanc, Col de Dame Noir, Scott's Yellow, Tony's Brown Italian, any other fig that is good in the rain/humidity and has a real figgy flavor.
rgoldsm841

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Posted Reply with quote  #109 
Hello Noss thank you for your reply.  There are several splits in the joints of the tree.  I think your right I should wait and see what happens.  This tree is at least seven or eight years old but this winter was quite cruel. 
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Posted Reply with quote  #110 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noss
Hello Leslie,

Don't cut it down just yet.  Is the trunk split anywhere?  There's a good chance that, even if the main part of the tree was killed, it will sprout from the roots (I hope it will.)  If it sprouts from the roots, people tell me it won't bear fruit the first year of the kill.  Don't know why because Celestes are producing fools, but that's what I'm told.  If you're getting green when you scratch it, that's a good sign.  Hang in there with it awhile longer and good luck.

noss


I agree I don't see why so many people are so anxious to cut down a " dead" tree that's not proven itself to be dead yet
PhilaGardener

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Posted Reply with quote  #111 
Well, there is always the Monty Python approach . . .
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Posted Reply with quote  #112 
Leslie,

You're welcome.

With a tree of that age, if the roots are all right, they may have a lot of power in them to produce some good growth for you.  I know you live farther North than we do, but my older Celestes that are inground, go crazy when I cut them way back and what I've noticed is that they can put out some pretty thick branches when they sprout back out.  I'm hoping this for you.  I hope you will keep us posted on your Celeste and we can see if any figs are formed on your tree this season.

Rich,

What I've noticed is, fig trees, except for the ones with FMV, or other problems, are more like delicious weeds and are tough.  They are most easily killed by extreme cold and drowning.  It's jumping the gun to cut them down too fast.

I'm hoping to hear some good things before this season is over.

I know that you have a frost line up your way.  Is there any way to put something around the root areas that would keep the freezing ground at bay?  I grew up in NJ, but there was no plant that we grew that wasn't indigenous to there, so the question never came up.  It would need to let the trees go dormant without letting the roots be killed.

It's overwhelming to hear of the killing of all the really old fig trees.  Every so often, we get cold that kills lots of citrus trees in this area, still, we don't get the freezing of the ground.  If we can keep the bottom part of the trees above the grafts alive with wrapping, the citrus trees will regrow.  There is a large Meyer Lemon tree down the street whose trunk and lower branches are tucked behind a high wooden fence and even though it's a lemon tree, it's never frozen back.

The fig trees that do best here are those that are tucked in behind tall board fences, which not only protect them from the winter winds and temps, but they shade the root areas from the direct sun, while letting the tops get sun.  The ground stays damp and shaded.

Do you think fencing in the bottom parts of the fig trees up North would keep the roots from freezing?  Probably not, considering how many months of cold y'all get.  Just a thought.

noss
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Posted Reply with quote  #113 
I visited a few of the Bronx trees that I pruned back and took some pictures of emerging shoots. They all currently have emerging shoots and bud break. The Bryant Dark has the most growth at the base of the main trunks.
UkBryantDark_BeforePrune_5-20-14.jpg UKBryantDark _Dead Branches_5-20-14.jpg  UkBryantDark_AfterPrune_5-20-14.jpg UKBryantDark _shoots_5-20-14.jpg UKKrmkLight _shoots_5-20-14.jpg UKNancyLight_shoots_5-20-14.jpg  .
MichaelTucson

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Posted Reply with quote  #114 
Nice pics Pete.  Good that you documented the way they're coming back with new shoots.  (minor item:  looks like maybe a typo in the date on the 5th pic).

Also I second (or third or fourth) the advice to not cut 'em down too quickly.  ESPECIALLY if you find some green cambium.  (But even if you don't).

Mike   central NY state, zone 5a
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #115 
Mike,
Thanks, this will be 3rd year that I've been documenting the progress of these trees.
Thanks for the heads up on the typo, the date has been corrected.

The advice about not pruning too quickly is good, but most of the 2" and smaller branches in these large trees are dead. The Cambium is brown (rust colored) and is visible if the bark is wet. The 2nd picture of the rust colored dead branches is typical of most 1" caliper and smaller branches that are higher than 4 feet from the ground. Since these trees will be pruned in a lower bush form, delaying pruning will only expend the trees limited energy into hydrating dead wood or wood that will be pruned anyway.
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Posted Reply with quote  #116 
Many of the fig trees that grow in The Bronx are multi-trunked, but many have a very thick, single trunk.  I know of two trees that have 6" diameter main trunks, which tells me that they have been growing for quite a few years without major die-back affecting the older wood.  I'm hoping these older trees are not badly damaged, and that they will bounce back to good health.  I drove by these trees and the owners have cut the branches.  The trees look sick.  I hope they ain't dead.

This past winter has been like no other winter that I could recall. From December, right through March we were relentlessly frozen solid!   NYC is rated Zone-7, especially in areas off the Long Island Sound, but we rarely get temps. that plunge into the low teens, or colder.  Most winters, we really get Zone 8-9 temps.  Yes, we can, and do get cold spells, but warmer temps usually quickly follow.  Most winters are moderate with temps ranging from the mid 20s, throught the 40s.  Not last winter!  Bitter cold, with biting winds....with no breaks.  The 'kiss-of-death' for figs.  This past winter, in NYC and surrounding areas it was a true Zone 6-7.  From what I'm seeing as I drive around, no fig trees escaped damage.  All have that toasted, rusty coloration, and that peculiar, "off-colored" look, along the main trunks/stems.  The fig trees just don't look healthy.  But, as Pete documented, most will re-sprout from the base, and re-grow from the roots up.

For us who grow in the colder climates....All it takes is one bad winter, and years of work and naturing gets wiped out.  Honestly, growing figs in large containers is a lot of work and can be a real p.i.t.a. at times, but it's really the only way to escape the ravages of a really bad winter. In ground trees are always at risk -unless the growers protect their trees.   Even protected trees can be damaged by mold, rodents, disease, etc.  It's a gamble.  A cool garage, or temp-controlled storage area can be a real asset when it comes to over-winter fig trees.  My trees died because I screwed up.  This coming winter will be different.  I will take the necessary precautions from now on.

Many here, have told tales of death and destruction of their fig collections.  It's a miserable feeling, a botanical groin-kick, to see frost-burnt damage, and not a spark of green, anywhere, on the prized trees.  I'm truly sorry to read about all the losses for so many growers posting on this forum.  It's a sad tale, hopefully, with a story with a happy ending.

From now on, I will grow my new trees with far more attention to details.  (Growing fig trees is easy...keeping them alive through the winter is the hard part).

Frank
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RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #117 
Noss,
Plant the trees on a south wall close the the foundation of heated building (house)
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Posted Reply with quote  #118 
Frank, in ground is the safest place for a fig tree. Have a look at this Chiapetta, just celebrated her first birthday. Planted in an open field with no protection (or mulch) last July... 

Attached Images
jpeg 2014-05-19_12-25-24_667.jpg (933.47 KB, 36 views)
jpeg 2014-05-19_12-25-34_25.jpg (676.08 KB, 38 views)


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Posted Reply with quote  #119 
Brent, That's awesome! My in ground Chiappetta had severe rodent damage. They ate the bark all the way to ground level. I'm pretty sure it will come back.
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nycfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #120 
Wow!  So sorry to hear about the losses!  I feel fortunate that my Sweet Diana made it through this winter with no damage.  She's 6 this year and I was thinking of not protecting her from here on out.  I think I'll give it a few more years.

image.jpeg    image 3.jpeg   image 4.jpeg   image 2.jpeg 

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Posted Reply with quote  #121 
Pino and BronxFigs-

Very well put. I don't grow fig trees for sentimental reasons, but gardening/small-scale farming/making stuff grow is very much an emotional and spiritual pursuit. It's always been a thrill for me to see a seed germinate, especially a difficult one, or a cutting take off, or to harvest the first fruit/veg from a plant, what have you. 

Good luck with regrowing a new collection.

Arne
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Posted Reply with quote  #122 
UPDATE post#1

5 ft. "Black Mission" has sprouted leaves 6/14.  Stored in unheated shed, but roots were frozen solid when tree (5-gallon container) - was moved into storage.

Note-  I decided to hold onto this tree because after a scratch test, the under-bark area showed a slight yellow-green color.  I kept this tree watered, lightly fertilized, and in full heat and sun.  All the other trees in the storage shed were killed, and showed rotted bark and roots after they thawed out.

So, I got one happy ending, at least. 

Now I have 2 'Black Mission" trees: (one that lived, and one purchased, as a replacement) and "Olympian"...so, I'm off to a good start.


Frank
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Posted Reply with quote  #123 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BronxFigs
UPDATE post#1

5 ft. "Black Mission" has sprouted leaves 6/14.  Stored in unheated shed, but roots were frozen solid when tree (5-gallon container) - was moved into storage.

Note-  I decided to hold onto this tree because after a scratch test, the under-bark area showed a slight yellow-green color.  I kept this tree watered, lightly fertilized, and in full heat and sun.  All the other trees in the storage shed were killed, and showed rotted bark and roots after they thawed out.

So, I got one happy ending, at least. 

Now I have 2 'Black Mission" trees: (one that lived, and one purchased, as a replacement) and "Olympian"...so, I'm off to a good start.


Frank


That's awesome man. I have a lattarula that I thought was dead. It had two suckers growing from the base that were 100% dead so I pruned those back to the roots. Within a week of doing that I have a bud that has broken at the base of the tree coming from one of those two shoots that I cut back. The rest of the tree might not make it, but atleast there is life, and I hope it recovers well.
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Posted Reply with quote  #124 
After seeing these trees putting out leaves after a winter like we had I'm reconsidering planting some of my local varieties ( Dago Pete's Italian purple, Kearny NJ White and Black and my Calliope's Red Greek) in ground against the south facing brick wall of the house.

I would be hard pressed to plant my French boutique varieties in ground. For the near future those will be coddled and fawned over all winter in a semi heated garage.
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Posted Reply with quote  #125 
psilva8-

Nice to read that your "Latarula" lived.

*************************************************************************************

Rich-

I guess the best bet is to plant the hardier local varieties in the ground.  At least you know that they could live through the winters, given the right conditions.  The containerized "blue blood' figs....get the kid glove treatment.

Sounds like a plan to me.

Frank
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Posted Reply with quote  #126 
So happy to read some of the trees are coming back! Mine are still "inching" their way back .
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Posted Reply with quote  #127 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BronxFigs
UPDATE post#1
5 ft. "Black Mission" has sprouted leaves 6/14.
So, I got one happy ending, at least. 
Frank


Hooray!  That is a survivor!
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Posted Reply with quote  #128 
Hi Frank
That's great news my friend. Very happy to hear this about your Mission
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Posted Reply with quote  #129 
Hello Frank! Glad to hear you ended up with a survivor. It looks like I'm down to two trees out of five planted in ground last spring. Two of those didn't leaf out last spring and I doubt they'll be coming up now. I plan on taking cuttings this fall of the new growth I get from the two survivors and potting those up for a few years, then in the ground they'll go...
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Posted Reply with quote  #130 
Hello, to my fellow Fs ....("Friends-of-the-Fig") :

Thanks for all the interesting comments.  This cloudy, "Obituary Column", while sad to read, does have a few silver linings.  I've noticed that while many trees were top-killed, new growth has sprouted from around the base and roots.  The photos of all the hacked back fig trees showing new growth, is nice to see, in contrast to all the surrounding destruction.  That's a good thing.  A lot of your in-grounders will live, and continue to produce ovarian delights.  Happy growing to you.

So, where's all this sagacious documentation leave us?   Hopefully, forewarned, and wiser.  For me, in my case....I will need to be more careful about how I treat my containerized trees after they enter dormancy, especially the period between mid-December, through early-March.  From now on, they will go into my storage shed earlier, and I'll give them a little heat throughout the coldest months.  I'm also thinking about applying a "Wilt-Pruf" type antidesiccant, after trees go dormant.

My ultimate goals are:

1.  To eventually train some nicely thickened, single-stem trees, each having a rack of fig-bearing branches towards the tops of the main stems.... (single-stem, standard tree form).

2.  To have these trees survive, without die-back, from year to year.  Because of my limited storage space, I can't grow bushes, nor, do I intend to have to continually wait for a crop of new branches to regrow from around the surviving roots, each spring. 
                              

I was well on the way to my personal 'Fig Utopia', but then, after seven long years of snipping, clipping, pruning, pinching.... along came, last winter.  The Big Chill turned into the "Big Kill".  The rest is history.  So, I get to do it all over again, only this time, with a few new trees.

                      ************************************************************************
...."And miles to go before I sleep"....Bobby Frost, said it best.


Frank
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Posted Reply with quote  #131 
 Celeste, Hardy Chicago, Black Mission, Olimpia, black Spanish, p. honey, conadria, Osborne prolific, LATTARULA (Italian Honey)  Oregon Prolific, Hardy Chicago, NEGRONNE, STELLA 

I'm In search of Kadota, Brooklyn White, Marseilles , St. Anthony Fig, and LSU varieties...  LSU IMPROVED CELESTE FIG, LSU Gold, O’Rourk, Champagne, Tiger

I got this list of LSU varieties from this forum...  Scott Black                    LSU Gold                  LSU Red                LSU White Honey
LSU Black                      LSU Purple                LSU Thibodaux       LSU Brown
Hollier                           Champagne               LSU #156              LSU Scott Yellow(Brandy)
Everbearing                   Tiger                        LSU # 5                O'Rourke
LSU Improved Celeste     Jack Lily

Anyway, I live in Southern Oregon...  High Desert...  Hot summer days with cool nights...  Cools off in September...

Please aim me in the right direction if you will...  :)
Thank you
Shaloma
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Posted Reply with quote  #132 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaloma


Hi everyone...
I'm new to this forum and I am really into FIGS!!!
I have already these varieties:   Celeste, Hardy Chicago, Black Mission, Olimpia, black Spanish, p. honey, conadria, Osborne prolific, LATTARULA (Italian Honey)  Oregon Prolific, Hardy Chicago, NEGRONNE, STELLA 

I'm In search of Kadota, Brooklyn White, Marseilles , St. Anthony Fig, and LSU varieties...  LSU IMPROVED CELESTE FIG, LSU Gold, O’Rourk, Champagne, Tiger

I got this list of LSU varieties from this forum...  Scott Black                    LSU Gold                  LSU Red                LSU White Honey
LSU Black                      LSU Purple                LSU Thibodaux       LSU Brown
Hollier                           Champagne               LSU #156              LSU Scott Yellow(Brandy)
Everbearing                   Tiger                        LSU # 5                O'Rourke
LSU Improved Celeste     Jack Lily

Anyway, I live in Southern Oregon...  High Desert...  Hot summer days with cool nights...  Cools off in September...

Please aim me in the right direction if you will...  :)
Thank you
Shaloma
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Posted Reply with quote  #133 
All varieties you are looking for on eBay for sale now from many sellers including Encanto farms.
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Posted Reply with quote  #134 
A big push of cold air is coming to the eastern u.s.
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Posted Reply with quote  #135 
Good luck to all that will be experiencing colder that normal temperatures.  Hopefully everyone is better prepared after last winter.  I feel bad as I saw buds on the cherry trees and we are going to have sleet and freezing rain next week.
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Posted Reply with quote  #136 
Just a slight update....

So far, the recent weather has been just as bad as last winter's, even though December was not as bad as it was last year.  The deep freeze has started again here in The Bronx, NYC, and once again, the possibility of fig trees being severely damaged are very real.  Containerized trees are at the greatest risk.  Any trees stored in temps. between 35* and 45* F will probably do just fine, and will live to sprout yet another day.

My "Black Mission" that survived last year's winter, lived on, only to display a very bad case of FMV/D...and thepurchased replacement "BM" was just as badly infected.  Both were thrown in the garbage, where they belonged.  The tissue-cultured "Olympian" -Wellspring Gardens, grew rampantly, had no disease, and pushed figs, which were nipped off.  In addition to the "Olympian", I was able to get a few replacement unknowns,  from local sources.  All the trees are resting in my unheated shed, and the jury is still out as to their survival.   

If the current weather patterns are any indication of what can be expected in the future winters, it will be very difficult to keep grounded trees from being killed back in the colder climate zones.  Bronx winters were not as severely cold as the last winters, and I never had to contend with so much cold damage.   From my direct observation, many of the older, established, grounded fig trees growing in The Bronx, DID NOT survive from The Winter of 2013-2014.  Many re-sprouted, but just as many died.  Not a good sign.

So once again, I will wait out the remainder of this winter with crossed fingers. 

Good luck.

Frank
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Posted Reply with quote  #137 
Frank,

   When you say the Oympian figs were "ripped off," do you mean stolen, or that they were removed to strengthen the growth of the tree?
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Posted Reply with quote  #138 
Hi Dale-

Thanks for the interest. 

To answer your question....the baby figs on the young "Olympian" trees were nipped off, to divert available energy into making vegetation, and to strengthen the growth.  The "Olympian" tissue cultured trees were only a few months old when they started to set figlets...way too young to allow the figs to develop.  I think for the first 2-3 years, a grower should concentrate on strengthening the root system, encourage as much growth as possible, and establish the basic framework of branches...which was my goal with the "Olympian".  The figs will come in subsequent years.  Waiting is the hard part.

If these "Olympian" trees, which are now in cold storage, live, and re-sprout with the coming Spring, I will again, concentrate on growing as much vegetation as possible.  Big, lush leaves, means good roots.   The figs will again, be nipped when they sprout from the leaf/stem juncture.  I may allow one of two figs to reach maturity, just to see how they might taste.  It's hard to resist.  The rest of the baby figs will be pinched out, continuously, throughout the growing season.

I always try to follow the 3-year rule: ...The first year, it sleeps...the second year, it creeps... the third year, it leaps.  Roots first, roots and branches, second...then in year three, fruit/figs.

Happy growing.  Hope this helps.


Frank
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