I was stuck in a situation where I had to do an early-transfer on four figs:  one MVSB and three Conadria, and remove the potting material (Turface/SM)

Came home yesterday, and found the MBVS drooping.  Came home today and found a Conadria drooping.  One Conadria looks like it may start drooping tomorrow, and the final one is strong (thank goodness for something).

I've done a few other transfers when I know they were ready, using that same potting medium, and didn't have problems.  I'm not a stranger to doing this kind of thing, I've just never needed to do it this early with immature roots.  Any tips for recovery are welcome. 

Patience?  It's been three days and I haven't been touching them.

I did pop off one of the leaves that easily broke free with the touch.  The others are still firmly attached but droopy as all get-out.

Did you try putting them in a humidity tent and mist the leaves periodically?
I am doing this with one of my own that was drooping and the drooping stops until it needs another mist hoping that the time gain will help the roots.
Just mist and not wetting.

Jason,
 I have been using a mix of 60/40 perlite and coconut fiber. The fiber blocks can be found at Lowe's in the seed section. So far this has been great stuff, mold has not been a problem. Keeping the moisture right is a whole lot easier. I root a lot of different plants and this is the best and easiest for me so far. It sounds like the mix that you have now is holding too much moisture.  That is the reason I like this mix, unlike the other pre bagged mixes that are a little different every batch they make. I have bought some and get another bag of the same mix and it is different.
  I hope they make it. You might want to try a light misting of weak solution of hydrogen peroxide to the roots before going back in the mix. Also set them in a place that is a little cooler than the normal inside temp for a day or two.


Best of luck.
Mike.

Thanks, Mike.  These cuttings were already rooted, just not as much as I wanted to, but the previous mix was causing problems, so I transferred them. 

Now, they've been transferred.  The soil in all four of the new pots is the same wetness, yet I'm seeing drastically different results from all four.  I'm not sure what to think of it, which is part of the reason - I've never transferred a rooted fig cutting prematurely like this.  It's like delivering a child at the end of the 2nd trimester.  I don't know the kind of care I need to be providing right now =)

I'm going to give Ottowan's advice a shot and toss them in a rooting bin for a couple of days and see what happens.

Hi Jason,
I would personally do as Ottawan suggested with the misting  and put back in box for added humidity. I have in past had simialr experience some made it some did not mostly due to my mix being to wet to begine with. I did save a few after transplanting into new mix that was dryer and also i kept plants in total darkness by covering the box completely with a towel. Some made it and some were just to far gone.

Look in Daves Garden under the Brugmansia threads and find a homemade foliage spray called " THE RECIPE" there are a lot of variations. But most of them have the same base ing. ( beer,MG,molasses,Epsom's salt,ammonia, superthrive) I also add vitamin B1(one tablet) and a few drops of tea tree oil. I use it on cuttings that show stress drooping. (use about 2 teaspoons of this to a gallon of water and mist). I use this on all of my plants from figs to house plants and have had great success with it. One batch goes a long way, even using it to spray every week. I have been using this for the past three years, and it has really made a difference especially on stressed (sick plants)

What was the reason you had to do the early transfer? 

The mix was persistently drying out unevenly and watering unevenly, which was leading to watering woes, always leaving them underwatered or overwatered.  Using straight Turface MVP and Sphagnum (50/50), ability to truly control moisture in an out-of-the-box environment is pretty tough.  I was constantly using a syringe to shoot water into the bottom, middle or top of the cups.  It was getting to the point where all of the drying and watering was impacting the roots, they were starting to look pretty sad in some places.

I could have probably avoided this if I would have religiously kept them in the box rather than moving to a window.  Of the roots that were there, they looked good - most all of them - which is why I'm hoping and wondering if they'll bounce back.  All of my cupped plants in Fafard3B-Perlite mix are doing great, and I've transferred some out recently into pots, and they're doing magnificent.  Just these Turface/SM ones that I'm having issues with.

I still have a couple of spares of each, so .... maybe I'll get lucky and one of the Conadria will survive, plus I have one spare still in cup, and I have a couple spares of MBVS as well.... but I'm having a lot of the same watering problems with one or two of the spares (same Turface/SM mix)

Jason I know exactly what your going through I lost so far this year around 30 newly rooted plants after their first transfer. I am back to square one and have to try and remember what I was doing right in the beggining, I too had drooping leaves within 3 days of transfer and a week after transfer most of them started to dry out, I have also tried doing what Ottawan mentioned and by misting the leaves and using coat hangers to make a frame and then a clear garbage bag over to make a little greenhouse type macgyver and so far was able to save one MVB but all the others just died.
Is there a rule of thumb as when rooted cuttings should be removed from
the cups? I have been going by when I see allot of feeder roots but thats not been working for me will be keeping them in the rooting medium a bit longer from now on and am also using the bags instead of cups for my new cuttings.

With every other thing I've propagated from cuttings, I normally wait until the main roots look lignified and can pull the entire plant up our of the pot by the stalk.  This way, everything stays intact, and I stick it into a bigger pot with more soil, and don't bother to rough up the sides of the roots or antyhing.

Oh, and for the good news:  After putting the cuttings in bins again and raising the ambient temperature of the room to generate a little more humidity, now one of the three in dire straits are springing back to life, another is looking better, but still sad/droopy, and the MBVS is ... we'll see what happens.  It's definitely not happy.

Jason glad to hear they are starting to recover thats a very good sign and thanks for that tip thats what I did in the beginning but seem to have gotten a little impatient and have learned from my mistakes I hope.

Best of luck with your plants

I am new to rooting cuttings in any turface combo.  I think the turface is too fine.  I have been doing great both starting cuttings in a 65% coarse perlite and 35% sphagnum mix and also using the mix after taking the cuttings out of the baggies.  Maybe I have been lucky but once taken out of the baggies I have never used anything for humidity.  Just put in the cup and water as needed. 

A picture would be really helpful for me. Can you - Ed, Nelson, Jason, or someone else - post an image or series of images that illustrates when it is time to transfer which apparently correlates to when the roots look lignified, i.e., woody? So that means that the white spaghetti roots turn into something else. I'd like to see THAT!

JD

JD
You may find some pictures at the end of the page in this link:
http://figs4fun.com/basics.html

Ed, I'm new to it as well.  I've always rooted in some kind of potting mix blend or sand.  Al (tapla) recommends "screening" the turface to remove all the small stuff.  I still find that it's pretty fine then, compared to coarse perlite.

JD, when some of my cuttings get there, will take some pics for you.  Unfortunately, the only one that got there is already transferred to a pot.  

wait till they start looking about halfway rootbound, and they're usually at a point where they'll be holding soil.  Here's a sample of Sal (Gene) that I will probably pot up beginning of March.  I've posted this one a few times in the past 7-10 days.

Jason  -- have you ever try potting one pot over another larger pot.

What I have done many times in my rooting container is I pre-cut the bottom off and used  small sections of tape to secure the cut off bottom back to the main body. When I see roots going good, I removed the taped bottom & placed it over a slightly larger pot. At this point, make sure the 2nd larger pot soil mix is not saturated. I prefer to squeeze out the moisture in the soil mix. Very fast you will see progression of rooting into pot or see thru salad tray. Mininum movement or disturbance to tender roots. Key is moisture control. Don't need tenting etc.

I haven't tried potting a smaller cup into a larger pot after cutting the bottom off of the original cup.  I'd be afraid of hacking off the roots.  I'd also hafta buy new cups next year!  I must say, though, have you seen Jon's suggestion of planting in a split open cup and sliding it into a whole cup?

I've never had a problem with breaking/harming roots if I wait long enough to transfer - in the next 7-10 days, the picture I showed will be at the point that it's root-bound enough to slide right out.  I am all out of pots to put it in, though!

Crazy part about that Sal's pictured is that literally the bud just broke.  I'ts been pretty quiet until 3 days ago.

Jason
How long did it take for the Sal plant (in the picture) to get this mass of roots (weeks/moths)?

Check out this thread, posts 18 and 19:

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=4582262

For comparison of pictures without clicking through, here is ....

Feb 14:  http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/file?id=937247

Feb 18:  http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/file?id=939293

Feb 24:  http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/file?id=944245

A period of 10 days, you see the roots almost quadruple. 

It took this particular cutting approximately 7 weeks to root in the baggie, and it had 3-4 half-inch rootlets showing when I cupped it.    This is potted in 40/60 of Fafard3B/Perlite, well drained, hardly any moisture at all in the cup, no condensation really on the sides.  It was a very vigorous cutting, as were all of the other cuttings I got from this individual.

So, you see the progress in 10 days, and it's like this all the way around the cup.  This is why I say in the next 7-10 days, I believe it will be ready for transfer to pot.

Jason, I have done what Jon shared many times last 2 seasons. Works great. I recycle most cups at least once.

Paul,

I think I will try the split-cup method, but maybe I will split the cup, insert into another cup, then rubber-band the split cup together and place in the bin.  I may try to find smaller cups as well.

Ottawan,

Here is a VdB from the same source as those pictures two posts ago.  I received the cuttings 16 days ago.  This one rooted in, like ... seriously, in hours, I think!   ;)

It was in a cup within 3 days of receipt.  This is it, about 11 days after going into the cup.  Same source as my Conadria cuttings that rooted like crazy and are discussed in this thread - which, I'm happy to report that 2 of them are firm and standing strong again...one is still half-droopy, and the MBVS is still looking like a goner.

(please ignore my piss-poor mixing skills!!  but know that i am LOVING coarse Perlite and Fafard3B as a rooting medium!)

This is a miracle. I do mot mean Miracle-Grow but almost a kind of miracle using what you may call 'piss-poor mix' which is not if one looks at the roots and the time it took to come to this stage.

About the drooping leaves. I am working on keeping one plant alive by mist and enclosure. Th the leaves stay up until I open the tent and within a minute or two (literally) I see the droop and up again when I close the tent. So I am not sure if the cutting's hydraulic system is damaged or what. Only time will tell.

With that VdB cutting I just posted a pic of, if I didn't know any better, I would swear it was setting up in a bag for two weeks prior to getting here, but I don't think it was the case.  This is by far the fastest rooting cutting I've ever seen.  Most of this growth occured in the last 4-5 days.  I checked my PM inbox just to make sure.  Cuttings arrived 2/11, shipped on 2/8.  So ... wow.  Mix is 70/30 or so of coarse perlite and Fafard3B, which has the same ingredients and consistency of UPM and Pro-MixBX.

For the drooping, I have seen what you describe while rooting other stuff if the cutting rots in the middle, it usually happened with some things I've buried too deep.  I don't think figs really care how deep you bury them, so this may not even be possible with them.  But ... I would check the above-soil stalk with a firm squeeze to check for rot.

Interesting note, Akram ... the leaves of the two I mentioned above were standing firm, tall and happy yesterday after being in the bin with nice humidity and stable temperature and light.  so I removed them from the bins overnight with the heat on in the house...only to wake up and find sagging.  Back in the bin for 2 hours ... and now, standing tall again.  No misting was required, just the humidity of the bin. 

So, I guess they will stay in the bins for the next couple of weeks, and humidity and controlled temperature seem to play a huge factor here.  Seems the humidity is the more important factor.  Your advice was spot-on!  Thanks again.

Jason, the vdb was my second fastest rooting cutting.  I have a large fruiting greek fig that roots even easier.  So far 100% sucess with sals of c and 0% with sicilian black.  Go figure!