Over the past several years, I've been monitoring NC weather and weather in Washington state. According to USDA, I'm in zone 8A and so is the Seattle area. But my January is nothing like Seattle's January. For instance, this week we will have 24 and 27 degree temps at night and 50s by day. But in Seattle, they're in the 50s but their nights don't drop down below 40!

Grasa, and Shirley, do you guys ever get freezing weather? If so when? When does Spring come in your climate? Do you guys have to winterize your figs? The main reason I ask these questions is every year, I have to bring my Desert King trees inside or risk getting a handfull of figs. In 2009 & 2010, I had some nice red center DK figs. But since then, our weather in the past has not been the best for figs. I'm just trying to understand weather patterns and it is mind boggling!!!!!

Looks like I'm gonna have to either move or buy more land with some greenhouses!!!!!! Honestly though...I am looking for more land. My friend's place with the 30 acres is a pain to access when it rains so I'm going solo now. He really lives back in the sticks!

Hi Dennis.  I'm not out there in Washington state, so I can't really address exactly the question you asked.  But I just wanted to say Good Luck with your search for land.  I've been thinking of doing the same... I've got a few chunks of land up here, but thinking of selling one of the vacant residential lots to use the proceeds for more acreage for planting.  Glad to see you're looking too.  Good luck in your search!

Also I'm sure you already know there are so many other factors besides the USDA zone.  I always thought they were drawn based primarily on the coldest temp expected in a winter.  But so many other variables affect things.  Also there are quite a few microclimate zones in lots of areas.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5a

Part of why Desert King works in the PNW is that breba figs ripen there at the peak of summer heat. Here in San Diego, they ripen earlier, when the weather is cool, and often foggy or cloudy. Their shorter season pushes ripening to later in the summer when heat is at its peak.

Water has a great moderating affect on temps, and being in the "rain shadow" of a mountain range affects temps and rainfall enormously. That is why Sequim in the banana belt of Washington and Vancouver the banana belt of BC.

Well Dennis, notice also the latitude difference between you and Seattle. This accounts for those sub-40F temperatures you see during the winter.

Latitude isn't everything of course -- the west coast is greatly moderated by the Pacific Ocean and a usually missed by the Canadian winters that sweep down across the rest of the U.S. -- sometimes down to Orlando.

Humidity can account for big differences too. Higher humidities with heat create oven-like conditions in terms of fruit, and lower humidities result in heat being wicked away. I don't know where you are in NC, but here's a some charts showing humidity in 3 cities.

Sanford, NC:
   

Seattle, WA:
   

Vista, CA:
 

Dennis:

If you want cheap land where a greenhouse would work think TX, NM, or AZ mostly around 4-5,000 ft elevation. This gets you sunshine all yr long, low humidity so a greenhouse can be set up to cool properly, and mild winters so heating costs are low.

The very best fruit growing regions in the country without a greenhouse are in CA. OR and WA have mild but rainy cloudy winters and are too cool in summer.

USDA Zones only account for the average winter minimum temperature, not the more subtle aspects of climate that were mentioned.

Zone 8a should experience lows down to about 20 degrees, but in your zone 8 those temps can be low for 2-3 months whereas the rainforest that is the PNW might get it for a few days/weeks. Still makes them both zone 8. That's why so many wholesale and mailorder plant nurseries are located in Oregon and Washington state, perfect climate for growing plants since the season is long, winter cold but not for long, and summer heat isn't much. Keep in mind too that PNW can ripen great breba but few main crops due to low summer temps.

Another good example would be comparing (some) coastal parts of Maine to where I live in PA. Both are zone 6, but the summer temps in Maine tend to be at least 20 degrees less than here (I remember wearing jackets in August in Bar Harbor). I'm sure someone in Maine will have trouble ripening most main crop varieties where as I would have plenty of summer heat to ripen all but the latest.

USDA zones are not the best system, but without getting bogged down in dozens or hundreds of categories for every microclimate it will have to do. That's what makes this forum so useful, everyone from every climate can share what grows best for them. People like you (Dennis), herman2, and many others are great resources for us all.

There are many factors that affect our weather here in the NW as others have already mentioned.  We have two major mountain ranges east and west of us, our latitude and the Pacific Ocean. 

The average temperature of the ocean is  about  50 degrees which influences our temperature, so it doesn’t get too cold in the winter or too hot in the summer.  Systems might come up from Hawaii, but rarely do we get cold blasts from Canada. These jet streams from Canada bypass us and head east.

We do have short periods, usually no more than a week long that temperatures are in the 10’s. So far this winter we have gotten into the 10’s twice, in early November and December.  Normally spring starts around March, but very rarely do can see snow in the first week in April.  We get a foot of snow every few years that only lasts a few days.

There is very little die back of the Desert King, a few tips here and there.  I do  protect my young plants and put them in the shop for the winter and not in the greenhouse.  The greenhouse gets warm on sunny days.

Dennis, 

Are you planning to leave NC? I to am planing to moving to more land myself, I'm looking at 5 acer lots on the east side of Colorado Springs. However i have also been looking at SC, the FL pan handle, AL, LA and TX, I do also like the Seattle and Everett area of Washington state in addition to a couple areas near Salt lake City (ogden to the north and Provo to the south). A good number of these places I mentioned are much more cost effective when buying land, I've seen 14 acer lots for with a small house for less than just 5 acers here.

Not trying to pry, just curious. Moving across town is one thing, moving across county with nearly 80 25 gallon pots....   it's going to be quite the challenge if i do leave Colorado. 

Here in the Great Pacific Northwet the USDA Climate zones are irrelevant.  The attached weather forecast for Seattle from February 1-5, 2015 should explain our weather quite clearly ;)

 

Happy Growing,   kiwibob, Seattle

Visit my website:  http://sites.google.com/site/kiwifruitsalad2

Steve,

Thank you for the insight, some interesting thoughts. If I move, it will be out of Colorado in its entirety, and not to California, no offence ment to all of our CA friends, it's just not for me. ..though I do love to visit CA, it's beautiful.

I've been growing my whole life, after perfecting growing in Colorado's harsh climate I'm pretty confident that I will be able grow most anything most anywhere. 

One of the main reasons we are thinking about moving, is that my wife wants to live near the ocean, or a large lake within a few hours of the ocean.   Pensacola FL is so far the front runner if we relocate. 

Either way, it's threes years away at the soonest and a lot can change in that time.

There is NO, repeat NO, zone map or system that will account for climate at my location. Zip, Zilch, Nada.

It depends on how far you are from the water (Pacific Ocean), your elevation, your surrounding elevation. geographical features (mountains, valleys, etc.) which direction the prevailing weather is coming from north - "arctic" or south - tropical, from off of the ocean, off of the desert, etc. Within a quarter mile of my house, it can be 10-15 degrees colder in the winter (elevation) or within 5 miles of my house 20 degrees cooler or warmer in the summer. Weather at my house is like a tug of war between all of the different factors, and on any given day or season one factor may be dominating, and the next day or season the center of the rope see-saws the other way, and that can be 10 degrees or more difference in a day, sometimes more. If the seesaw is one way all season I have a 75-85 degree summer, and if it is the other way, I have an 85-95 degree summer.

The climate charts also don't account for season length and what the temperature profiule is overf the season.

Scott:

My brother lives in Pensacola. It's a lot like College Station weatherwise only even more humid. If figs are your main fruit it will be OK. But for most everything else I grow it's not even close to my greenhouse or the central valleys of CA. You'll have way more disease issues, too much water to achieve high brix fruits, and stuck with varieties of lesser quality. But it sounds like factors other than fruit take priority.

My brother completely rebuild his house after one hurricane and repaired after another. He's on the barrier island.

Fruity will follow me where ever I may roam, yet like you said, for me it has nothing to do with relocating.

I moved to KY for the cheap land. I checked out W. VA. too, it has cheap land, but it tends to be vertically challenged.

I have lived on the coast and I have lived in the mountains and KY is different, very different. We'll usually see a few days at 105, or over, in the summer, and a few at -5, or below, in the winter. We'll usually see a couple of days in the 70s in Feb. or early March... followed immediately by tornado's. But, we only get tornado's one or two days a year. Anytime a front goes through you can get microbursts. Short narrow straight line blasts of hurricane force winds that can come from any direction... even straight down. My neighbor has a stand of cedar, in the middle of it there's about a dozen trees that were knocked flat, with standing trees all around them.

Driving is an adventure. The roads are a lane and a half wide. There are no shoulders so everyone drives straddling the center line. Some of the farm equipment you meet is wider than the road. And, it's always fun to get stuck behind a tractor, that's stuck behind an Amish horse drawn buggy.

In the mountains I had to adapt to a Baptist church on every corner, and every Baptist church having it's own SWAT team. Here I added politics, to religion, as something I don't talk to anybody about.

But I have a nice piece of land here. 22 acres on a river. Half field, half wooded, with lots of wildlife and few neighbors. Edward Abby said, "If a man can't take a piss in his own front yard he's living to close to town". Profound wisdom, that.