You've piqued my interest Darkman. Why do people hate them? Just for the holes they make? I thought they did damage plants. (We have no gophers or moles/voles at my place. The trade off is a backyard that is 60ft by 30ft).

Lawn dies when grubs eat roots, moles are blamed?

Not sure about moles.  We don't have those.  What we do have are gophers who will eat the roots of any plant or tree including roses and figs!  We also have voles and rats who eat plants and trees too!  The only lawn we have is an artificial turf putting green that even the rabbits don't bother.  Coyotes and Bobcats take care of some of the rabbits, but even THEY hate gophers and voles.  Did I mention rattlesnakes? 

Definitely going to try the dry ice trick first!

Suzi

Hungryjack, thanks for all that great advice!  I put it on my critter control word doc for the property, so I don't forget any of it!

Trellising the grapes will happen on all the chain link fence posts around the property.  At least 3/4 of an acre is fully fenced.  The other grapes will be head trained.  They will look like small trees, and I plan to group them by varietal.  Like Ficus Carica, different varieties of Vitis Vinefera have different growth patterns.  Some do better head trained than trained on trellises, especially on hillsides.  Zinfandel is one.

Here is an example of head trained grapes:


They look like mini trees!

Suzi

Darman et al,
  It isn't the mole that's the bad guy (other than tunneling near the surface and making trip hazards) -- it is his cousin the vole that does the majority of the plant damage that people on this forum are most concerned with.
Jim

OK, good luck with the varmints.
I would hire some local help for the day,
get a couple of cases of spray foam
and let them fill as many holes as  possible before gassing them,
it will be much more effective that way.

Didn't know they grew grapes commercially that way,
or the name it was called, thanks.
I have two grape "trees" in containers that were given to me,
they look exactly like the ones in your photos,
not sure of the variety, one is red other is green, seeded.

I wanted to create some more of these,
but was unsure of what varieties to use.

Can you suggest some varieties for me to use
that have the proper growth habit.
Will grow some in containers and others in the ground.

My use is for consumption, not wine making,
high flavor, seed or seeded is fine.
Really want to grow for flavor.

What do you suggest.

Hungryjack, there are videos on You Tube about Head Trained vines.  Do a search for head trained pruning, and you will be amazed.  Any variety can be head trained, and you can train them as high as you wish.  Some prefer lower trees, and some higher!  I have many in containers, but they will be going in-ground once we get control of those pests!!

Table grapes for eating.  Hmmmmmmmmm.  We grow wine grapes only.  I do have one table grape.  Perlette, but only because it's sweet enough to make wine from.  We live in two different climates, and it would be really hard for me to tell you what grapes do well in your climate, but if you have time, you can spend hours at The National Grapevine Registry, and by clicking on a name it will tell you if it is a wine or table grape.  I love doing research there because it tells you where the vine originated, and if it's from a colder climate area, you will know it will do well for you also.  It also tells you where you can purchase the grape.

Good luck and thanks for all the gopher control tips!

Suzi

Suzi thanks for posting that site . We have talked about growing "eating grapes" here (FL) as part of our edible landscaping plan . Looks like that site has a huge amount of info.
 
Been really busy here planning and revamping (taking out unwanted growth) sections of our property . Our home is on 3/4 of an acre , and we want to make sure everything is planned for the best use of space.
  All of my cuttings (about 30) from this fall and later have rooted and been repotted , with about 12 more cuttings coming along, albeit slowly.
Also been painting the interior of the house. Waiting on estimates for the larger rooms with 30ft ceilings! Neither one of us want to try and tackle that. The other rooms and halls are no problem though.
Plus preparing to host a baby shower for our daughter in law and the upcoming birth our our 4th grandson !

Sorry to have hijacked the posting here.

Thanks again Suzi and keep us posted as to all your work on your newest property aquisition - love to see it all as you do it !

I only defend the mole not the rest of the critters that are very destructive. I am fortunate to only have moles. You can't really count our "Gopher" which is also a tortoise and endangered. We do have grey squirrels AKA tree rats that eat all your produce but there is an easy solution to that. Fried squirrel and squirrel stew! I completely support everyone’s right to defend their fruits.

I'm not a nut who thinks every thing should be relocated.

My apologies to those who do.

The grape head trained pruning was unique. I wonder if that would work with our Southern Muscadines. Mine are about five to six foot tall and I will be installing and training them to a T trellis this year. The trellis will run down the center of my citrus rows and be at about seven feet tall. At that height it should give me quite a few years before the citrus and muscadines all blend together! LOL

Thanks for posting the link to the grape registry, helpful.

That's a tough question! To me muscadines are almost a different fruit. There are similarities but muscadines are, how can I say this, not very dignified. Most people find the hull (skin) to tough to chew and will have to remove (spit) them from their mouth.

And then there are the seeds, sometimes fifty percent of the volume of the muscadine that you also probably will not eat and must be removed from your mouth. I've seen small children resemble a machine gun ejecting them in high velocity burst.

Now then there is the pulp a squishy viscous glob they may have what resembles and feels like a small worm but it's not so don't worry.

What's left is a very defined taste that southerners love. It's rich, full and musky.

Many of these traits are not a bother. It just depends on the individual. I even know people that eat everything seeds and all. There are ongoing programs to develop the perfect muscadine. They now have large (think golf ball), thin edible skins and nearly seedless ones. You can grow for fresh eating, juicing and even wine making just like there cousins the grape. They even come in whites, reds, purples and blacks. There is a good future in the muscadines for sure.

My best advice is to find a U-Pick muscadine vineyard and call them up explaining that you would like to wander around taking notes and sampling them. I've done this and I of course paid a fair price to them and even picked several containers to take home too. I labeled ziplock bags picked a good representation and then moved to the next variety.

My wife and I had a wonderfull afternoon and then enjoyed several nights evaluating them. The owners even walked around with us a gave us their opinions and advice on growing them. I now have three ninety foot rows with about twelve varietys. My vineyard is small and young. I'll get a few fruit this year and many more in the years to come.

Having said all that, you can grow grapes here with a lot of work. They'll require a lot of spraying and pest management. I do not think the results would be worth it. The muscadine is native and requires very little care once they are established.

Oh, they are definetly worth it.

If I had a choice, I would rather eat muscadines as the flavor is better than grapes IMO. Like figs,if you don't allow them to get fully ripe,their taste can be bland like an almost ripe fig. These are some smaller size wild muscadines from a large old vine in my backyard.

Just a comment about the original subject....I would NOT use charcoal or anything else that could cause a fire.
Far too many wildfires have been started from such activities.

I agree with not using charcoal for sure!  There is a lot of dry, dead growth on our property from years of neglect, and I would not wish to be responsible for starting a fire!  I do like the dry ice method for sure!  We walked the property, and the holes are too many to count.  I'm thinking we should map the property in a grid, and systematically attack.  If we can cover it all in a month, then do the same thing the next, and the next until we get rid of the pests and then maybe every 3 months. 

I know people in my wine making forum do make muscadine wine, but they make wine from green tomatoes too!  LOL!  They make wine from most fruit and juice concentrates, but unlike grapes, they mainly have to add water, sugar and often raisins for body.

It is very true that humidity is hard on grapes.  They like dry air, and will get powdery mildew if not sprayed with neem oil or something similar.  Where we currently live, it's hot and windy, but because they water the golf course so much, the wind carries that moisture to the vines, and we have to spray for the powdery mildew too!  This won't happen on the new property.  Our big issue is those burrowing pests.

Thanks so much for all the great advice in this thread!
Suzi

How do commercial vineyards deal with critters?

I know there are many small vineyards in the mid south that must deal with this.

Not saying that any of this is a good idea, because the ones from next door would probably just move in in a couple days, but...

I'm not sure about the dry ice idea.  "Dry ice" is carbon dioxide, not carbon monoxide.  There is a big difference.  Carbon dioxide is not poisonous.  You can breath it with no ill effects.  Now, if the air is 100% carbon dioxide, then you will choke off the oxygen supply.  However, there are two problems with this.  First, it's not a sealed system, so you're not going to be able to make the air in a gopher tunnel 100% CO2.  Second, even if you could, the rodents would notice the lack of oxygen and would go running for the exit.  The carbon monoxide way at least has a chance of working, if you can deliver it in strong enough, extended enough dose.  Although they would probably notice this too, if it came from a very hot, smelly vehicle exhaust.  Most animals' sense of smell is much better than ours.

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7433.html

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/QT/gopherscard.html

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74115.html

Great links!  Thanks!
Suzi