This fig has been linked closely to black mission.  To my eye the leaves are more closely related to vdb/negronne.  Also at my location the plant grows more like vdb (slower) than black mission (monster).  I can't tell what the fruit is closer too.  Any ideas?

As I recall from UCD's documentation, they are all genetically related.

Ed,

Hi Ed.  Jon said previously that he acquired a fig labeled "Vista Black Mission" but DNA testing at USDA/UC Davis proved it to be a VDB.

So the Vista was a VDB.

The performance and flavor of this fig is said to be outstanding, a real winner.

Hope you are doing well my friend.

John

Georgia John has it correct. It has been and continues to be the fig to measure all others by. There are some better, but this is a superior fig that holds its own against almost all comers. Performs better than any VdB (that was so labeled) that I have.

For those who have it and have eaten its fruits, can you post a few recent photos of your tree, leaves, and fruit? I have seen Jon's photos but I curious to know what it looks like and how it performs elsewhere.

It is good to hear that Vista = VdB; and in paradise, not only is Vista better than VdB but that it is superior to most other figs.

@ Jon. In your opinion, what figs grade out better than Vista? I suppose I ask why? as well. I would guess that Black Madeira is one such fig.

Perhaps I'm a little slow this morning, but I'm confused--if "Vista = VdB," how can Vista be better than VdB? Are they truly the same thing, or just very similar?

Ken,

I believe that one small part of the answer is naming convention and the rest is about the fig gospel - soil, medium, rain, sunlight, fertilizer, watering, micro climate, heat, humidity, disease (a.k.a. FMV), hardiness which all point to determining the "nature" of the select cultivar.

In the 4th post in this thread, John wrote:

Jon said previously that he acquired a fig labeled "Vista Black Mission" but DNA testing at USDA/UC Davis proved it to be a VDB.

[Vista] Performs better than any VdB (that was so labeled) that I have.

Thanks JD, that makes it somewhat clearer. If I understand it then, it means Vista and VdB are genetically identical or so close as to make no real difference, but in Jon's corner of paradise his Vista happens to have outperformed his other VdBs--maybe in the same sense that two cuttings from the same branch may grow at different rates, depending on where they're planted. The bottom line for me is, since I already have a VdB that's coming along nicely, I don't need to rush out in search of a Vista.

I guess this is why people sometimes preface their comments about cultivar confusion by saying "welcome to the world of figs". Herman posted while I was responding to JD, so I didn't have the benefit of his understanding. So----it sounds like they're truly different, but very closely related, and that in essentially identical settings, Vista is apt to outperform VdB, but not by a lot. I guess I still won't replace my VdB, but if I was starting over again, probably should go with Vista.

Vista is not Violette de Bordeaux,but a Hybrid of Mother Violette with father Unknown?.
It clearly show that is related to Mother Violette de Bordeaux but is far from been Identical.
It could be better or worse but is not identical.
In California, Mother of any common cultivar makes female flowers,and if Male polen is nearby by any meaNS A   FRUITwith viable seeds will grow.
Out of that one fruit more than 200 plants can be grown.
One third is usually common females plants that will fruit and persist like mother tree.
Most grow out to be way inferior to mother tree in fruit quality,but sometimes one baby plant could be very close in fruit quality to mother tree.
And very rarely(one plant in 5000),can be just as good as mother tree tho not identical as a Specimen,and having other different desirable qualities.
Well Vista seem to be that one baby New Hybrid selection,of, Violette, selected by someone for it's qualities.
I can see leaves and fruits are different,and I can see it clearly.
I am going to follow this post with pixes to show the difference at this point in June.
Of course the difference is more visible in August,when leaves take their final shape..
Here is the pixes:
Notice:Vista M has truncate to decurent, base of leaves. Leaves are much larger.
          :Violette de Bordeaux,has semicordate base of leaves.
First pix Violette de B,second pix Vista M

Edit:I did place pixes,but they did not show because of a glitch.
Here they are showing now.
Violette is 6 years old,vista is 4 .
Pixes taken today.
Trees are inground and were there last winter with frost protection.

hermansur,

no pictures are attached.

@ Ed. Thanks for starting this thread.

@ Herman. Thanks for the photographs. Do you have pictures of the fruits from those trees? A hybrid with VdB mother and unknown father. Interesting theory and it would still maintain the accuracy of the UC Davis testing. I checked out http://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/acc/acc_queries.html in hopes of finding what they written about Vista Black Mission.

@ Jon. Did you have a reference for the testing mentioned here "[Jon] acquired a fig labeled "Vista Black Mission" but DNA testing at USDA/UC Davis proved it to be a VDB."?

Fun stuff: The Search for the Origins of Vista!

If Black Mission does terribly in the southeast and Vista is compared to be similar with Black Mission, how does Vista hold up to rain? Black Mission does piss poor here with rain. Swelling and splitting galore.

Just trying to figure out if Vista is something even worth having in the southeast.

I too am not sure if Vista is worth having in the Southeast. I also avoided it because of its Black Mission roots but now that is in question. Since we don't know, then we have to try. I am doing my homework first.

Does anyone here in the Southeast have a mature Vista that has delivered a modest main crop at least once in its lifetime?

My take away is that the Black Mission nomenclature of Vista Black Mission is likely a misnomer. In terms of lineage, what I have read in this thread is that Herman and Jon claim/know that Vista is genetically linked to VdB. Thus it is not clear to me that Vista should be compared to Black Mission. We know the history of naming screw ups so...in reading this thread, a Vista to VdB comparison like the one Herman started seems to be a good path.

Here is the only pix I have taken in Sept 9 2007.
I will get better pixes this year.
Vista is the black fruit with lighter red interior,in top of pix,Violette de B has darker interior.
The third fruit lighter in color is Blue Celeste.
The lighter interior,of the Vista is another indication,it was hybridized.!

Vista at noon. VdB at 8 o'clock. Blue Celeste a 4 o'clock.

Thanks Herman. Looking forward to a clearer image.

That is correct.
Vista Mission also ,is just a couple of grams larger in size overall compared to Violette de Bordeaux.

JD, yes Black Madeira is one.

Ken. I have about 2 dozen Celestes. Only 4 get propagated. The have better fruit, are more vigorous growers, etc. Yes, they are all the same, by DNA testing at USDA/UC Davis, but they do not all perform equally well. Same with mu VdBs - they just don't all perform/behave the same. Part of this may be due to the fact that they are are comparing certain aspects of the DNA, and not actually doing a 100% sequencing on the DNA. That is more intricate biology than I can get into.

I am going to disagree a bit with Herman. There actually is a seedling of Vista in the USDA/UC Davis collection, called Encanto. From the DNA testing you can see that the pollination of Vista introduced a whole new set of genes (male), and so it is very far removed from Vista on the DNA "tree". The fruit does have a lot of similarities to Vista, but clearly vary far removed DNA-wise. So I doubt that Vista is a seedling of VdB.

Vista is NOT related t6o Black Mission, except in name. The fruits have nothing in common.



DNA info, published by Malli at USDA/UC Davis is here.

Vista Pix from 20 minutes ago.

OK Jon: It is alright to disagree,because my theory is not scientific,it is what I have seen from experience.
So I may be wrong after all.
On the other hand,I am looking of your recent top pix,and I can see clear on more than one leaf there that the base of leaves on Vista is positivelly deccurent.
And is what I said in my post.
Violette de Bordeaux has leaves that are semicordate!.
How can they be identical?
I also can see clear that Vista has nothing to do with Mission,but is very similar to Violette de Bordeaux,except it grows larger with larger leaves,of a little bit different shape,and a little larger fruits.
I will also like to point in favor of my theory,the fact that genes can be taken,by the new seadling ,unequal from the 2 parents.
As in case of your Vista seadling it took most genes from the father side,and so it took much less from the mother Vista fig.
In the case of Vista fig,it very well could take more genes from the mother fig (Violette de B),and very few from the father side.
I would also like to point out that when it takes the genes from the, father wild caprifig, the new seadling is much inferior to the mother tree, which is not the case of Vista Mission having the good genes of Violette almost entirely.

Questions and points of reference...

• UC Davis has a Vista as well as Encanto which is a Vista seedling.
• Jon acquired a seedling labeled Vista Black Mission which is said/known/claimed to have no relation to Black Mission; it makes sense to call it Vista.
• Vista is good. Good in paradise. Good in Jersey. Where else is it good? Folks in the South and Southeast are curious.
• Via experience and observation, Herman notes similarities to VdB.
• Via empirical DNA testing, it is said that UC Davis concluded that Vista and VdB are genetically 'related'. Let's keep the word 'identical', I think I introduced it, out of the conversation...for now. Here is what UC Davis wrote in the link that Jon posted :
  
  "Comparison of multilocus genotypes revealed many instances of apparent synonymy or misidentification of cultivar names. The CA [cluster analysis] using the neighbor-joining method revealed ten groups (Fig. 1) and subgroups were evident within each of them. Interestingly, the groups contained an assortment of Smyrna, Common, and San Pedro type figs interspersed with occasional Caprifigs, suggesting that the sex expression in fig is simply inherited and the different fig types share a common gene pool. The CA unraveled 32 instances of synonymy at least involving two cultivars. In most cases the cultivars within the synonymous groups showed a high degree of morphological similarity with respect to tree architecture, vegetative and pomological characteristics.
  
  For example, figs with different names but identical multilocus fingerprint included: (1) six greenish-yellow figs with strawberry-yellow flesh inlcuded ‘Lemon’, ‘Dokkar’, ‘L.S.U. Everbearing’, ‘White Texas Everbearing’, and ‘Trojano’ characterized by a widely grown cultivar ‘Kadota’; (2) five greenish-yellow to light brown skinned figs with light amber to yellow colored pulp included ‘Archipel’, ‘Malcolm’s Super Giant’, ‘Drap D’or’, and ‘Encanto Brown Turkey’ with two other closely related cultivars, ‘Alma’ and ‘Golden Celeste’; (3) three medium sized purple/black figs ‘Vista’, ‘Violette de Bordeaux’, and ‘Beers Black’; (4) two green figs with amber flesh ‘Verte’ and ‘Calverte’; and (5) three green figs with thick rind with light strawberry flesh ‘Paradiso’, ‘Monstrueuse’, and ‘Ischia Green.’"
  

Is this?One of my net's friends are planting the FIG

Negative. Wrong leaves and fruit shape.

JD,

I think the lid had been lifted from Pandora's box when UC-D reported in the first sentence of the second paragraph you posted "For example, figs with different names but identical multilocus fingerprint included:...". To deny that sentence is like saying a DNA match of your DNA to your own DNA merely shows they found a match to someone in your family. Now that is not to say that the chain of custody from the pictured/original parent has been unbroken. It is entirely possible that a mislabled/improperly named sample was tested and matched. The more time passes from the original discovery or importation of a cultivar, the more likely that the error will occur.