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Well..well..well....Jayspain says Hello!

What do you know, 

What I was expecting has happened. The higo mafia really exists!!

Hi all,

My name is Jay, I am jayspain on eBay. I finally felt like I had to introduce myself to all of you, albeit not for the reasons I wanted.

I feel I have started a brawl with some people I don't even know and who may happen to be great guys if I was to know them personally...or not?

Then again, I did not mention anybody's name as for anybody to personally feel insulted. Furthermore, my beef was/is with the figs, the hypocrisy and the bullS...t going on, not with any person or people. 

I listed those initials and specific fig names references as recent and past instances of that hypocrisy and b.s I was trying to refer to. 

Regardless of whether somebody or everybody may know or think they know to whom I was pointing my complaints, the fact is that I did not name anybody and as I said, those initials can be of half the country. 

I admit I brought all this to myself and only I am to blame but I do not regret anything I have said and still feel it needed to be said.

I humbly think I explained everything for everybody to understand where I was coming from and I invite anybody to set me straight when it comes to figs and any misunderstandings I may have perpetuated in my mind.

I am coming forward to learn first hand from all of you who post regularly here about figs in general but I am not asking for forgiveness or need anybody's lessons of how to behave.

I, however, appeal to good judgment as to not be crucified for this as my beef is with the "system" or way some figs are sold or put together for market and big profits.  

This is something I know about, having described the situation with the many unknown fig varieties present in pretty much every yard in Spain's geography, just waiting to be given a name and sold as if new varieties. 

I know, as I suspect now and is starting to sink in better, the USDA feared visit may be the one and only reason I find it very strange nobody dared to even send me an offer in the few days those listing were on eBay.

As I said, if it is a personal choice for any single individual to pass on what I thought were very interesting, sought after and hard to come Spanish figs, nothing wrong with that.

Problem is, it does not make sense for any hardcore collector to not put their hat in there and try to get some of it. To this, I took it may be the comments of others, the so called Lords or Gods of the fig world or fig Mafia as I call them, dismissing my offerings and discouraging people from making an offer. Perhaps trashing my person/nick with innuendo to accomplish it?

This is what I thought was going on and the reason of all my verbal stabs. If it were to turn out to be the USDA thing that put the fear on them, well, some apologies may be in order always being a man to accept my mistakes.

Anyway, enough talk and I let you into what transpired today: (I wrote this before all the above. I've kept it as it was even though I don't feel/think the same now. I think it may be just fear of getting caught by the USDA instead of anybody directing anybody to buy or not to buy...or not?)

........As I was expecting, either  Bilbo Saggings (I can't believe even after this I can't bear to bring out his full name still giving him the benefit of the doubt) or one of his lieutenants, went and cowardly snitched to the plant guys to come and pay me a visit.

I got the visit of a very nice man today to my house. He was a field inspector for the USDA.

Everything went great and I can even say the experience was somehow gratifying and I learned a thing or two during the process. Just kept him at the door though, even raining as it was, knowing there was little he could do if I cooperated, cool as a cucumber and expecting this as I was.

They say, the guy from the USDA, that it was just a search they did about figs selling on eBay and picked me/my listings for inspection.  

Really? unless the feds just gave 1 billion dollars to the USDA, and more specifically the field officers who do the runs to increase their range and effectivity, their service is just TOO GOOD and effective. We all know this can't be, and it isn't, from any one of these government departments other than the important ones like defense and such. They just don't have the resources and it is a plain long known fact!!

So, how can it be, I list a few figs online, and it takes just two days for somebody to show up here???? My figs did not even show up at all when I did a search for figs on eBay! My contact in Spain couldn't even find me on eBay as well!.

All this I am saying of course just to be more open to letting everybody know I have not really any beef with anybody and not wanting to receive any heat from it.

But really just exemplifying the fact that this WAS NOT a random search by the USDA.

They picked me because somebody alerted them to it and send them my way. IT WAS indeed a snitch who couldn't take it, either for thinking I was talking about him/them or that I was going to get away with selling those figs for that money.

So, watch out people, thanks to this Mafiosi who couldn't take being challenged or denounced, your fig biz is going to be more scrutinized or dismantled unless you can prove your figs are legit. And even so, you still gonna have to deal with these guys if this or any other snitch decides to stab you in the back for whatever reason. 

OK, so there it is. 

Now, I have done my part to swallow pride and take this as an opportunity to come forward and learn from it. I am not coming here to be crucified or to start an endless quarrel with anybody.

I can take any criticism anybody may feel I deserve for what I've done or the ways I've expressed it. Please, do not make it personal as, I repeat,  haven called on to anybody's direct name in anything I've said as to grant that kind of response. I think there must certainly be somebody here who may have something to say about the same things I denounced. That is actually the response or some of them. I am hoping to get by coming here.

Thank you for the opportunity.

Jay






 
 
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Jay:

I read your message on Ebay and now here. I'm not wasting any more time trying to understand because your message is very disjointed. IMO your cuttings are illegal and ought to be confiscated by USDA. Anyone that buys them should expect the same.
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OK, fair enough, nothing wrong with what you said.

Thank you for your comment/s.

I indeed have gotten that (the confiscation of the items in question) 

Now, the grammar lesson is totally unnecessary (but you, of course, knew that already)
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Kick rocks
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When i first became interested in figs i ordered 3 cuttings from Turkey,not knowing the restrictions,a year later the USDA contacted me and wanted those cuttings, i just ignored them and they went away.I think it is ridiculous that the government has the resources to enforce fig cuttings coming over the border but knowingly lets millions of illegal immigrants over here without doing anything.To make a long story short i will not order over seas again because i do not want to lose my collection but in reality fig trees come here everyday from over seas illegally from people vacationing and relocating to the USA.Fig borers are already here,they destroyed the first celeste fig tree i bought from lowes!Lol. 
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I am gonna say a few things that some people are not going to like, but I'm gonna say'em anyway.
1. People bring cuttings from Europe to the US all the time. In fact, someone just sold a rooted European cutting for Close to $1,000 on ebay, and I am quite sure there are no phytosanitary certificates. The US is crawling with hundreds of figs imported from Mallorca, and not one has a phyto.
2. Many people re-sell cuttings they have legitimately purchased or acquired, here and abroad. I am not aware that doing so breaks any law besides what I mentioned in item No. 1.
3. I don't know what Mr JaySpain's situation is, but this does not seem to me to be a clear cut case of someone doing anything out of the ordinary. Have I missed something? I'd be happy to be illuminated.
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He should have listed tgem without all 5he song and dance,about leaving them in his suitcase and just listed them for what they are and he would have made bank. Silly fellow lol. If i was friends with someone from spain look out. Those varieties would become very common in just one year. Its always about the money.

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Didn't know the fig Mafia opened the books again.  Thought they went away a few years ago.  Who got made?
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I bought some fig cuttings from China about 8 years ago before most of us knew it wasn't allowed.  The cuttings never showed up but a gentleman from the Govt did.  There was no mafia involved.  The USDA monitors ebay sales and will confiscate foreign material.  It's that simple and no conspiracy was involved.  I never mentioned the purchase in a public forum.  Many of us have the same story. 
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Big brother is always listening and watching. I doubt anyone dropped a dime. You did that to yourself with the grandiose listing and suspicious story.
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Originally Posted by fignutty
Jay:

I read your message on Ebay and now here. I'm not wasting any more time trying to understand because your message is very disjointed. IMO your cuttings are illegal and ought to be confiscated by USDA. Anyone that buys them should expect the same.


Ditto. Your risking our crops here by bringing in such things. The spotted wing drosophila fruit fly ruined billions of dollars of crops here. Brought in by somebody who did the same thing you did. Yet you actually post here complaining? Wow! Well thanks for thinking of us in such an unselfish act...not!
I'm all for bring in cultivars from overseas, just go through the procedures, pay your dues, and all is well!
It is a pain to do it right, but it can be done, and then the prices would be very fair too. I can import figs from Canada for a cost of about $200.00, not really that bad.
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What was that about ???????????
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What about ponte tresa. Certificate. I think not.

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Originally Posted by rafaelissimmo
I am gonna say a few things that some people are not going to like, but I'm gonna say'em anyway. 1. People bring cuttings from Europe to the US all the time. In fact, someone just sold a rooted European cutting for Close to $1,000 on ebay, and I am quite sure there are no phytosanitary certificates. The US is crawling with hundreds of figs imported from Mallorca, and not one has a phyto. 2. Many people re-sell cuttings they have legitimately purchased or acquired, here and abroad. I am not aware that doing so breaks any law besides what I mentioned in item No. 1. 3. I don't know what Mr JaySpain's situation is, but this does not seem to me to be a clear cut case of someone doing anything out of the ordinary. Have I missed something? I'd be happy to be illuminated.



Good point!
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Are you kidding me? What you are saying is because other people have broken the law in the past then it's OK for others to break it also? Sorry, but either our country has laws or it doesn't have laws. If you don't like a law then petition your representatives to change it. You break it then expect the consequences.
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Originally Posted by figpig_66
He should have listed tgem without all 5he song and dance,about leaving them in his suitcase and just listed them for what they are and he would have made bank. Silly fellow lol. If i was friends with someone from spain look out. Those varieties would become very common in just one year. Its always about the money.



I deserve that and like you replying, I am glad for anybody else doing so and bringing up my mistakes for me to learn from.

It wasn't really a dance, or a dare or anything like it. Believe it or not, it happened just like that and I thought it would deter exactly what ended up happening (the snitch stabbing) showing it was just a mistake I did not want to go to waste so to speak.

Wording I guess could have been better? but I insist, it happened this way (though to be honest, it isn't like I forgot entirely....just figured I could afford to see what would happen once I got here and walked out of baggage claim)

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

J.
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Originally Posted by nycfig
Didn't know the fig Mafia opened the books again.  Thought they went away a few years ago.  Who got made?


I guess this will definitely show my true fig newbie colors but just to make sure by mafia, I mean no real mafia in the sense of violence and even murder (unless I am totally clueless??)

Just like OPEC, it's more like a cartel keeping a the tight ass control or exclusivity about the figs people are dying to possess. Perhaps, just perhaps, f....ing anybody else who try to do it on his/her own? 

I, however, accept the fact that if somebody goes through the trouble of getting himself an importing plant licence, he should rip the benefits but the market does not seem to work this way or does it?
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Originally Posted by DBJohnson
Big brother is always listening and watching. I doubt anyone dropped a dime. You did that to yourself with the grandiose listing and suspicious story.



I got the time so I keep replying appreciating the input and polite discussion.

Agreed and agreed though I reject you calling it a suspicious story because it wasn't.

I seem to suffer from the Spanish allegorical desire to express ever single sentence to death thinking my point will be better served this way. You know, same way we speak.

Instead, as it clearly appears to be, I should dig deeper and embrace the short answer, straight to the point American way in my descriptions.

The whole thing was just a miscalculation, thinking those "hot cakes" were going to be out of there before anybody placed me in such a hot pedestal as to be taken down. 

I would hardly call it grandiose either. It obviously shows I had no clue as to how to go about offering those very interesting figs to people I thought and still think, were appreciative as to take them out of my hands.
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Originally Posted by drew51
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Originally Posted by fignutty
Jay:

I read your message on Ebay and now here. I'm not wasting any more time trying to understand because your message is very disjointed. IMO your cuttings are illegal and ought to be confiscated by USDA. Anyone that buys them should expect the same.


Ditto. Your risking our crops here by bringing in such things. The spotted wing drosophila fruit fly ruined billions of dollars of crops here. Brought in by somebody who did the same thing you did. Yet you actually post here complaining? Wow! Well thanks for thinking of us in such an unselfish act...not!
I'm all for bring in cultivars from overseas, just go through the procedures, pay your dues, and all is well!
It is a pain to do it right, but it can be done, and then the prices would be very fair too. I can import figs from Canada for a cost of about $200.00, not really that bad.



As with all the other replies I have replied to, I thank you for your input but allow me to give you mine to what you said.

First of all, that condescending tone is not needed,  saying it with the most respect but tired already of another one.

I am wall aware of the ramifications of a bad "apple" and what it could do to the flora of this and any country in the world.

Just in case you haven't read my first reply and despite the story that brought me here to talk to all of you, I am not against the USDA doing their job. I further commend them for trying to do something impossible to do and achieve, specially with the resources they are given.

I REFUSE (not yelling at you, just emphasizing here) to be the sole culprit of this. They were the ones who let it go though when I "forgot" those cuttings in my luggage.

Same, exact thing, though even more egragious on their part, that if anybody, not just me, were to get those same cuttings through the mail and for those cuttings to make it all the way to their destination here, in this country.

So, they drop the ball exactly where the have the most power to enforce it (customs and the power to keep any package as long as they want if they deem it suspicious. Even open it if they feel like it)

Then, they turn around and put the blame on you or me or any one of all you reading this. They send a dog** to your house to try to sniff those illegal sticks you just received courtesy of their great service.

The whole thing is beyond ridiculous but you go on and let us know what else we should be ashamed of.... I am listening...

**Not literal dog despite the fact that the "dog" who came to my door was a very nice person.
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Originally Posted by javusa
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Originally Posted by figpig_66
He should have listed tgem without all 5he song and dance,about leaving them in his suitcase and just listed them for what they are and he would have made bank. Silly fellow lol. If i was friends with someone from spain look out. Those varieties would become very common in just one year. Its always about the money.



I deserve that and like you replying, I am glad for anybody else doing so and bringing up my mistakes for me to learn from.

It wasn't really a dance, or a dare or anything like it. Believe it or not, it happened just like that and I thought it would deter exactly what ended up happening (the snitch stabbing) showing it was just a mistake I did not want to go to waste so to speak.

Wording I guess could have been better? but I insist, it happened this way (though to be honest, it isn't like I forgot entirely....just figured I could afford to see what would happen once I got here and walked out of baggage claim)

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

J.



We can always make a trade. That option may be better at this point unless your getting slammed with private messages with people reading this,wanting to buy them. Would not surprise me at all.

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Originally Posted by hammerwood
Are you kidding me? What you are saying is because other people have broken the law in the past then it's OK for others to break it also? Sorry, but either our country has laws or it doesn't have laws. If you don't like a law then petition your representatives to change it. You break it then expect the consequences.




And I did, feeling weirdly glad it happened though not really jumping with joy for anybody to show up at my door. 

Again, as with all the other replies, I thank you for your input.

However, aren't we all just too old for this kind of.... "look at me... I follow the law.... such a good boy I am"..... Just asking as I know I am! (give me a f.....ing break already)
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I really do not know what you want from us. You have been a member for a little over 2 years and I feel like I need to welcome you to the forum, and sincerely hope that you keep on posting. I have been a member since 2013, about the same time as you, and I have learned a lot from the members. Most of our members are not high stakes buyers, so I doubt anyone would have turned you in from this forum. USDA APHIS keeps a close watch on ebay for international sales. If you purchased internationally through ebay then the chance that you will be visited immediately is rare, I know from experience(should have joined the forum sooner), but your listings pretty much told APHIS that you got away with something and they screwed up. I am confident that they did not want your cuttings dispersed, their job would be much more complicated and costly trying round them all up, maybe all over the country. Better to collect from one source than a dozen. Just a thought. Also, there is more than one forum, your ebay listing is a topic of a thread on another forum... http://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-home/70617-new-figs-from-spain , check it out. Good luck with your other sales on ebay and keep on posting.
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Originally Posted by javusa


I REFUSE (not yelling at you, just emphasizing here) to be the sole culprit of this. They were the ones who let it go though when I "forgot" those cuttings in my luggage.


Your use of quotes around the word "forgot" implies that you did not forget about those cuttings, but rather deliberately placed them in your luggage and "forgot" to mention them in customs. Which is called smuggling, since "I forgot" isn't a legal defense. They did ask you "did you pack your bag?" at the airport, right? 

And then you brag about it on the internet. Hello - anything you write on the internet is there forever!

To save people the hassle of searching for your eBay listing - here's the incriminating part:
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It just returned from a trip to Spain and somehow I forgot these in my luggage with such luck they got through only to gladly discover them when I unpacked once here.

Someone might as well brag about the cocaine that they "forgot" to mention was in their suitcase. 
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The whole story is fake. All of it.
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Originally Posted by waynea
I really do not know what you want from us. You have been a member for a little over 2 years and I feel like I need to welcome you to the forum, and sincerely hope that you keep on posting. I have been a member since 2013, about the same time as you, and I have learned a lot from the members. Most of our members are not high stakes buyers, so I doubt anyone would have turned you in from this forum. USDA APHIS keeps a close watch on ebay for international sales. If you purchased internationally through ebay then the chance that you will be visited immediately is rare, I know from experience(should have joined the forum sooner), but your listings pretty much told APHIS that you got away with something and they screwed up. I am confident that they did not want your cuttings dispersed, their job would be much more complicated and costly trying round them all up, maybe all over the country. Better to collect from one source than a dozen. Just a thought. Also, there is more than one forum, your ebay listing is a topic of a thread on another forum... http://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-home/70617-new-figs-from-spain , check it out. Good luck with your other sales on ebay and keep on posting.


Thanks a lot!

You can count me as your friend and I would love to share my 20 year old plants, including some figs! that are LEGAL! This according to the same guy who came to my door from the USDA

Won't in a million years be sharing with those other guys so interested in plugging the legalities or illegalities in their responses instead of showing me something new and helpful.
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