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What are the top five Black figs for the hot and humid SE?

I was considering buying a Black Mission the other day but I remembered that I had read several post that said BM is good but there are others that are better. That got me to wondering what are the top five or so black figs?

How many of you in the Southeast are growing these?
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Maybe FMD will respond. Mine are all in pots but one Celeste
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Originally Posted by newnandawg
Maybe FMD will respond. Mine are all in pots but one Celeste


In pots as in the have not fruited and you have no black fig favorites yet?
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Charles, are you going to put them in the ground or grow them in pots?
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Mine will be inground. Here are two I think should be on the list but maybe not.

Kathleen Black
Niagra Black
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there is a reason celeste and bt are the standards in south Louisiana.  I am just trying several others and will report.  Here are links to recommendations from LSU and Clemson (South Carolina) and the thread from here on closed eye varieties, a big plus in our humid rainy weather.

http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/plants/vegetables/tree_fruits_nuts/hgic1353.html

Table 1. Recommended Fig Varieties for South Carolina
VarietyFruit ColorFruit SizeQuality of Fruit
For Fresh UseFor Preserving
*”Although it tastes fine, the black-colored syrup may be unacceptable. Add lemon juice to the packing syrup to reduce the pH.” Paul Wilson, Ph.D., Food Processing Specialist, Horticulture Department, LSU, Baton Rouge, LA.
AlmaGreenish brownSmallVery goodGood
Brown TurkeyBronzeMediumGoodExcellent
CelesteLight. brown to violetSmallVery GoodExcellent
Ischia greenBright greenMediumGoodGood (seeds objectionable)
HuntDull bronze with specksSmall to mediumGoodExcellent
KadotaBright greenish yellowSmall to mediumFairExcellent
LSU GoldYellowLargeGoodExcellent
LSU PurpleReddish to dark purpleMediumVariableUnacceptable*
MagnoliaBronze with white flecksMedium with specksFairExcellent


http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/communications/publications/Publications+Catalog/Lawn+and+Garden/Fruits/Figs+for+Commercial+and+Home+Production+in+Louisiana.htm

Varieties

Fig variety names can be confusing. Numerous fig
varieties are known by several names. Several varieties may
also have the same name. Figs vary widely in size, shape,
color, season of ripening and other characteristics.
Therefore, it is important to select and plant varieties that
will give the most consistent performance in your location.
To do this, you need to know varietal characteristics.
Many varieties that will grow and produce consistent
crops in drier climates are not suited for Louisiana because
of susceptibility to splitting and souring during rainy
weather, which is common during their ripening periods.
Other varieties don’t have sufficient resistance to cold injury
for general recommendation. Also, varieties grown in
Louisiana must have the ability to set parthenocarpic fruit
(without pollination).Varieties suitable for fresh market and
home preserves are quite often undesirable for commercial
processing as preserved whole fruit, a common use of figs
by Louisiana processors.

The varieties described are commonly found in
Louisiana. In general, be aware that the fig is susceptible to
cold injury, and this can occur even in south Louisiana.
Selecting the proper variety will reduce the chance of winter
injury, but all varieties are susceptible to such damage, and a
number of factors influence a tree’s susceptibility to winter
injury. These include age of tree, cultural practices, stage of
growth when exposed to adverse weather, rapidity of
weather change, severity and duration of cold and natural
protection.

Untimely freezes are the chief cause of winter injury.
A fully dormant tree can withstand temperatures as low as
10 degrees F with only one-year-old wood sustaining injury.
The one-year-old wood has relatively little stored material
and a rather high freezing point. Young plants are injured by
higher freezing temperatures than are older plants, and
plants still in leaf are tender. Thus, the same variety can be
hardy at one age or time of year and tender at others. Figure
1 shows a Celeste fig on the right that is dormant and is in a
cold-resistant stage. The Hunt fig on the left has not gone
dormant and is more susceptible to winter injury.


Celeste

This variety (Figure 2) is grown in all areas of
Louisiana. The tree becomes dormant early in winter and is
then quite resistant to cold injury; however, cold damage
may occur from untimely freezes or to young plants of
Celeste. The fruit is small (10-15 grams each) and violet to
brown with a light strawberry-colored pulp. It is very good
in quality as a fresh, canned or preserved product. The fruit
droops at maturity and has a closed eye. This makes it
highly resistant to splitting and souring. The fruit has a
slender stalk and tapering neck. Leaves generally have three
lobes but may have three to five lobes. This variety makes a
dark preserve and is processed as a specialty item. It is also
an excellent home orchard variety for fresh and processed
use.

Celeste is known by many other names such as
Celestial, Celeste Violette, Sugar, Small Brown, Malta and
Blue Celeste. Celeste is the most popular variety in the state
and is recommended for north and south Louisiana.

Brown Turkey

This variety (Figure 3) produces small to medium fruit
(20–30 grams) with copper or bronze skin and amber to
pink pulp. The eye is medium open, so it is more susceptible
to splitting and souring than Celeste. Fruits are turbinate and
usually without a neck. A small breba or first crop may be
produced in the leaf axils about two weeks earlier than
Celeste with a main, or second, crop of medium-sized fruits
about two to three weeks after Celeste. The first crop fruits
are usually larger than those of the second crop and are
pyriform. Fresh quality is good, and processed quality is
excellent. The tree is very productive, and good yields may
be obtained on juvenile or young wood. For this reason, this
variety has potential in areas where winters are too severe
for normal tree development.

If frozen back, the tree will initiate sprouts that bear a
good crop of useable fruit. Under such conditions, the bush
system of pruning may be used, whereby several stems are
allowed to develop from ground level. Leaves are three to
five lobed of the grape leaf type. Brown Turkey is
recommended for north and south Louisiana. It is sometimes
known as Southeastern Brown Turkey, Eastern Brown
Turkey, English Brown Turkey, Everbearing and Texas
Everbearing. The Brown Turkey variety should not be
confused with the California Brown Turkey, which has an
open eye and is not adapted to Louisiana.


LSU Purple

This variety (Figure 4) was introduced by the
Louisiana Agricultural Experiment Station in 1991. The figs
are medium in size (1.75-2.5 inches long); weight ranges
from 20-30 grams (15-20 fruit per pound). The fruit is long
turbinate, with a distinct neck. The stalk on the fruit is about
1/2 inch long and medium in thickness. The skin is glossy,
varying from reddish to dark purple, depending on light
exposure and ripeness. LSU Purple figs check when ripe,
exposing the white flesh beneath. The pulp is light
strawberry when ripe. The tree appears to be fully
parthenocarpic, and there are few empty seeds, or “kerfs,” in
the pulp. The flavor is good, mild, not “figgy,” and the
sugar content, which varies with the weather, is high in ripe
fruit.

The tree is vigorous, upright growing and has above-average
resistance to leaf diseases. Ripe fruit of good quality may be
produced on young trees even in the nursery row,
whereas many common figs have a definite juvenile period
of four or five years before bearing edible quality figs. Fruit
quality will improve on four- and five-year-old trees. Trees
of LSU Purple five years or older show a tendency to
produce three distinct crops: a light breba crop in early
spring, a heavy main crop in the summer and a later crop
often lasting into December. LSU Purple has poor cold
resistance and is recommended only for south Louisiana. It
can be grown in North Louisiana on a trial basis. LSU
Purple is sometimes grown in north Louisiana where severe
winter injury sometimes occurs. It does rebound well from
winter freezing and kill back and will produce a crop on
current year’s shoots.


LSU Gold

This variety was released by the LSU AgCenter in
2001. LSU Gold is a large yellow fig (35-50 grams) blushed
with red and containing light red to pink pulp. The fruit has
excellent flavor and good cold resistance. One of the
limiting characteristics of LSU Gold is the open eye when
mature. This can cause spoilage of fruit during ripening in
high moisture periods. This variety is recommended for
Louisiana.


Alma

This variety was released by the Texas Agricultural
Experiment Station in 1974. The tree is a compact,
moderately vigorous growing tree. It is very productive and
starts production at an early age. Alma is a late-season fig;
the main crop generally ripens over several weeks after
Celeste’s main crop. Alma does not produce a breba crop.
The fruit is medium (20-30 grams) in size. The eye is
medium and self-sealing with drops of gum. The fruit skin
is yellow to tan and has a thick rubbery texture. The Alma
fig has a thick white flesh with a light tan pulp with pink
undertones. The flavor is very sweet, and the seed hulls are
few and barely noticeable. Alma is recommended for south
and central Louisiana. Cold resistance is poor to moderate; it
may have freeze damage in north Louisiana in some years.
Alma is recommended in south Louisiana and for trial in
north Louisiana.


Kadota

This Italian variety (Figure 5) is widely grown in
California. It is also called Florentine, Honey Fig and
Dottato. Kadota produces medium, smooth and bright
yellow fruits (25-35 grams). Fruits are often flattened at
both ends, and the eye is open but sealed with a honey-like
substance in dry weather. Fruit quality is excellent for eating
fresh and for canning. If peeled, it is an excellent preserving
fig. Leaves are usually non-lobed to three-lobed, but may be
five-lobed. A moderate breba crop may be produced. The
large main crop is two weeks later than Celeste. During
rainy weather, the fruits split badly and may sour before
becoming ripe enough to eat. The variety has poor cold
tolerance and is frequently killed in north Louisiana. Kadota
is recommended for trial in south Louisiana.


Magnolia

This variety (Figure 6) has distinct deeply lobed okra-type leaves
that are pronounced on sucker wood and heavily
pruned trees. Magnolia produces medium to large (30-40
grams) lopsided fruit with an open eye, light amber pulp,
few small seeds and bronze skin often striped red. The neck
is absent, and the stalk is thick and swollen at the base of the
fruit. The second crop is large and ripens over a long season
if trees are pruned heavily. Magnolia is a weak grower, and
fruit splits and sours badly if left on the tree to full maturity.
The quality of fresh fruit is fair. It is excellent for canning
and preserving when harvested before ripe enough to eat.
Magnolia is also known as Brunswick, Dalmatian and
Madonna. Magnolia has very poor cold resistance and is
recommended for trial only in south Louisiana.


Hardy Chicago

This variety produces medium-sized fruit (20-30
grams) that is brown to purple with strawberry flesh and
matures five to seven days after Celeste. Fruit is firm and
holds up well during handling and processing. This variety
has good cold resistance and is recommended for trial in
north and south Louisiana.



http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/a-list-of-closed-eye-varieties-4652491
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What may work here may not work well in Pensacola, but Hardy Chicago and Sal's EL, which are really brown-purple are very good here and stand up to rain fairly well. Violette de Bordeaux is great tasting, but doesn't produce as heavy a crop for me. Black Madeira is very late bearing, so avoids a lot of our fall rains, tastes great and bears large numbers of figs. Celeste is a Southeastern classic, small great tasting fig, but it is not black. Italian black (Black Italian) is supposed to be good (Durio and our local nursery has it). Marseilles Black VS might be good (not bearing here yet--I hope my cuttings make it as this fig is constantly described as one of the better tasting).
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My impression is that Northern Florida has a little bit of trouble growing good figs, due to soil.  Also, outside of Louisiana, fig culture was totally dominated by poor strains of Celeste and Brown Turkeys.  

Malta Black is another traditional cultivar in the South, and is black...
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Oh. You said black figs. . .
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Originally Posted by brackishfigger
Oh. You said black figs. . .


Missed that did you! Good info anyway thanks.

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Originally Posted by scott_ga
What may work here may not work well in Pensacola, but Hardy Chicago and Sal's EL, which are really brown-purple are very good here and stand up to rain fairly well. Violette de Bordeaux is great tasting, but doesn't produce as heavy a crop for me. Black Madeira is very late bearing, so avoids a lot of our fall rains, tastes great and bears large numbers of figs. Celeste is a Southeastern classic, small great tasting fig, but it is not black. Italian black (Black Italian) is supposed to be good (Durio and our local nursery has it). Marseilles Black VS might be good (not bearing here yet--I hope my cuttings make it as this fig is constantly described as one of the better tasting).


Black Madeira, Italian Black and Marseilles Black. Three more to consider. Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by shah8
My impression is that Northern Florida has a little bit of trouble growing good figs, due to soil.  Also, outside of Louisiana, fig culture was totally dominated by poor strains of Celeste and Brown Turkeys.  

Malta Black is another traditional cultivar in the South, and is black...


Do you know what the soil issue was. I'll look into Malta Black. Thanks


Ok so far the possible canidates are:

Kathleen Black
Niagra Black
Black Madeira
Italian Black
Marseilles Black
Malta Black
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I do not live in south east but Negretta i would think would hold its own .
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What ever they are this summer they will definitely have a hot and humid summer. It is 89 degrees and humid as crap right now.
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Kathleen's Black doesn't seem like heat too much. its leaves are first to droop in the heat even here in NC. but it does have closed eye that will not open in heavy rain. Black Madeira should be good, i heard it enjoys long hot summer. 

Col de Dame Noir is also possible candidate since i heard it take long time to ripen and require long hot summer. will have to see how it does here in NC this yr. how about Niagara Black? heard that is nice black fig with drop of honey in the eye.

edit: anything from LSU should be good.. i heard they were bred for long hot and humid summer of SE. 
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Yeah, the two LSU blacks...Scott's Black and Late Black are obvious candidates.

Nematodes and something else about the soil are issues.
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Charles,

To grow figs in a hot and humid climate, you should go with the closed eye fig cultivators. Those usually handle the high humidity and rain well, meaning they will not split easily. With that said- even the variants that have tight/closed eyes, will eventually split during extended period of a very heavy down-pour, meaning when the fruit is about to be ripened.

One excellent candidate is the LSU Blk. and O'Rourke (I know it's not a dark variant but, you can not go wrong with this variant. Been growing the true O'Rourke for several years- it has never soured or splitted. Same thing with my UDG). Italian Blk. is a good choice as well, but it will split after a heavy down pour.

Navid.
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LSU Scott Blk. Looks like Durio nursery have done well with their Native Blk. LSU Purple(if qualified as dark),
VdB, Hardy Chicago, Col de Dame Noir. Consider LSU Red too -- not a dark fig but
worth while trialing.
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Yes, Paul. LSU Red is another rain resistance variant. It has a very closed eye. Never splitted for me, specially last Oct when its fruits were ripening and it was raining for 4 days.

Navid.
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  • Avatar / Picture
  • JD

Charles,
Here in 8B (Tallahassee), I am growing (potted and/or grounded) all of the figs mentioned in this thread except CdDN and LSU Red. My list of top five black figs follows with the requirements for making the list: 1) Color. Black means the skin of the fig is not green or yellow or red or brown. Thus I did not include Improved Celeste, Socoro Black, or Camuna Small Black and I would have; 2) Time. I have personally grown and tasted figs from these trees for a minimum of two consecutive seasons; and 3) Production. The tree is relatively productive, i.e., more than a bowlful of figs each season.

Hardy Chicago
LSU Purple
LSU Scott's Black
MVSB
RdB

VdB has the potential to join the group, after this season.

Italian Black, Kathleen Black, Late Black, Malta Black, Native Black, Negretta, Negronne, and Niagara Black do not qualify because they have not yet satisfied any of the aforementioned requirements. If all goes well, a few should meet requirements #1 and #3 this season.

Black Madeira and the Coll de Damas struggle to grow for me (both potted and grounded). I think that they are not well-suited for the combination of heat, humidity, rain, and wild temperature swings that are commonplace here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shah8
My impression is that Northern Florida has a little bit of trouble growing good figs, due to soil.  Also, outside of Louisiana, fig culture was totally dominated by poor strains of Celeste and Brown Turkeys.

shah8,
Have you grown figs here? I ask because I am curious to know how you came to your impression of Northern Florida. No question that Celeste and Brown Turkey have dominated fig culture outside of LA. I wonder about the label "poor strains". Is that in reference to taste, productivity, heat resistance, fruit drop, splitting, fruit spoilage, etc? Are you comparing it to a standard/best figs for the south, like Celeste is said to be or have been? I live in Northern Florida with a few 'grounded' trees and Frank (FMD) has a large collection of grounded trees growing well in native soil. So you are talking about me (us) and want to make sure I understand what you are saying so that maybe I (we) can grow figs better. Thanks.
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  • jtp

My trees are still young, but I have enjoyed the results so far with Black Greek and Preto. Both stood up to the high humidity here. I cannot round out a top 5, as I am still waiting for others to produce.
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Hey, JD, thanks for the input.  My impressions are primarily derived from reading yours, FMD, and other Northern Florida growers on this site.  I definitely know that the nematodes are a problem, but otherwise, the general gist is that figs in the soil down there seem to be more prone to just up and dying during the winter.  That might be a humidity thing promoting some rot, or wind, or whatnot.  Established trees here in Atlanta are pretty nigh unkillable.

I've never dealt much with figs during the '90s or in general before the last few years when we finally cut down an oak that was near our own trees and providing too much shade.  This was pretty broadly true of southern exotic fruit people, and I think this was because all of us are familiar with Celestes and Brown Turkeys.  Overly so.  Such Celestes weren't much more than a sweet snack.  Tasty, but unremarkable, with a big edge of your traditional vegetal fig flavor.  Brown Turkeys were more complex, but not really sweet enough to be compelling fruits.  Ray Givens really got going after I was in college and stopped really collecting or planting any more fruits.  But seriously, the Petite Negri, when fully ripe, is a true dessert fruit that can take its place among other serious treats for the tongue, like peaches, pears, mangos, cherimoyas, etc.  If people back then actually were more familiar with figs of this caliber, figs would have been considered as something other than a carefree weed that gives snacks.
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Wow while this topic initially had little response it sure has taken off and I thank everyone for their contributions. I’ll respond to a few directly but suffice it to say that all were appreciated.

 

Here in Pensacola the weather is hot and very humid night and day starting in the last half of Spring and continuing into early fall. Our evening lows are almost above 70 degrees now and some mornings the air is thick with humidity to the point everything is soaking wet. Our rains are frequent (almost every afternoon) but we also may catch a dry spell. Our weather pattern can best be described as unpredictable except that it will be hot and uncomfortable most days.

 

Newnandawg summed it up well. He should be a meteorologist.

 

Dieseler I’d like to try the Negretta especially with your recommendation.

 

Mr. Shah the two LSU black’s, Scott's Black and Late Black, would just about have to be a winner and while not black, I like the sound of LSU Red. Actually off topic but I’d like to have ALL of the LSU figs. Greedy ain’t I!!!! I’ve never really heard of trouble growing figs here but then again most people only grow what grows extremely well here. Maybe it those of us the step outside the box and try varieties that no one else grows here. IMHO & MTCW

 

Navid your closed eye recommendation is correct and another LSU recommendation with LSU Black. Italian Black is another to investigate but we do get heavy down pours. In fact that is how we get most of our Summer rain. Heavy rain for 15 to 30 minutes and then we have a sauna for the rest of the day. You slipped that O’Rourke in there and it has been on my must find it list. And a mention of the LSU Red with good recommendations for our weather.

 

Paully 22 where is Durio nursery? Do you have the story behind the Native Black? LSU Purple (if qualified as dark) not quite black but a fig I want along with VdB, Hardy Chicago, Col de Dame Noir. A fig labeled HC is available close to here.

 

Pete I appreciate the “NEGATIVE” comments on KB it will help me with my choices. More votes for CDD Noir and the LSU Chorus of Figs and another vote for Black Madeira.

 

JD an excellent report and the ground rules were precise and clear. Just what I’m looking for. While I myself have a few figs, I can’t recommend anything since none of mine have a track record thankfully you and some of the others do have a few years, and some many, under their belt from which to make recommendations. Your climate is almost identical to mine. I believe you get a tad colder more inland than me and a bit hotter again more inland than me. What grows for you should grow for me. I will be most interested in your 2013 season report. I’m sorry we did not get to meet when I visited with Frank last year. Maybe next time. Your recommendations, the negative comments on Black Madeira and the Coll de Damas and runners up will be considered.

 

Jpeaspanen Black Greek and Preto noted and added for consideration especially with the High Humidity tolerance note.

Mr. Shah I’ve done a bit of amateurish WWW research and I think the Nematodes are only an issue if you have a dry soil. My soil is heavily organic and stays on the moist side due to a heavy mulch of leaves. This moisture keeps the Ntoads at bay. The up and dying part may be from those that are fooled by are ridiculous transition from Winter to Spring. Growing marginals may think it’s time to wake up and grow  and never see the fatal cold coming. Maybe.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shah8
But seriously, the Petite Negri, when fully ripe, is a true dessert fruit that can take its place among other serious treats for the tongue, like peaches, pears, mangos, cherimoyas, etc.  If people back then actually were more familiar with figs of this caliber, figs would have been considered as something other than a carefree weed that gives snacks.

 

Very happy to read that as I have kept one alive so maybe in a few years I’ll have the same feelings as you.

 

Thanks to everyone that replied. I haven’t heard from Frank yet. Maybe he’ll chime in.

Here is the current list of contenders that will be vying for the top five (that might be impossible to define). I hope I haven’t left any out. These are in no particular order.

 

 

 

Black Greek

Preto

Durio’s Native Black

Col de Dame Noir

Petite Negri

Hardy Chicago
LSU Purple
LSU Scott's Black

LSU Black
MVSB
RdB
VdB

Negretta.

Scott's Black

Late Black

Italian Black

Kathleen Black

Late Black

Malta Black

Negronne

Niagara Black

Black Mission

Marseilles Black

Black Madeira

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The issue w/ Petite Negri is that it's not really fully ripe until maybe five days to a week with highly colored figs.  It's mature and tasty for an ungodly amount of time before it's truly ripe with only marginally less sugar than something like Celeste.  So not only do you have to restrain yourself from eating the more tart-sweet berry version of ripeness, you pretty much have to use real protection (or discover figs the varmints missed) to enjoy the more heavier and sweet fig taste with berry nuances w/jam texture.

Of course, the other issue is that it isn't that productive.  Something like 50-75 fruits per large tree (and plenty you can't get to if you don't prune it).  Right now, my biggest fustration is that many of the brebas are huge again, but the biggest (for sure over 120 or so grams) are where I can't protect them or harvest them.
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Hmmmm...looking at your winter lows, it's actually kind of weird, but my area hasn't been much colder than Pensacola.  Think this last winter, the low was 27 degrees.  There was no difference in that horrible 10/11 winter, 19 degrees, even when Atlanta was snowbound for a week and the 19 degrees happened a month later.  11/12 winter, that might be the biggest difference.  I had been idly thinking about maybe sneaking a white sapote seedling on the grounds, heh, heh, heh...

We haven't had issues with late frost killing buds (tho' this spring, cold weather did stress spring growth and made it more FMV-ey) on figs, but they've been a negative influence on loquat fruits...
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@Charles,  Durio nursery is located in Louisiana. They have a nice web page on figs.
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  • Avatar / Picture
  • JD

shah8,
If I were making a list of the top five figs that I have tasted of Frank's, then Petit Negri would be listed. You provided a good decription.

I am experimenting with the principles that Herman prescribes, I have pinched tips (always works) and topped several trees with a nice layer of limestone (no fertlizer) and a couple with gysum (No fertilizer). I am hoping this produces for better tasting fruits.

Charles,
Good luck with your collection. I will cull my collection soon. When I do, I will let you know. I will have a few on your list.
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