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What causes partial wilting of cuttings - pics included

I have several cuttings rooting in 80/20 perlite spagnum mix in a styro box. I open the lid and spray a fine mist of water a couple of times a day. All are putting out growth on top and some with visible roots. They have been in there about 2.5 weeks. They are near a south window with plenty ambient light. Temp in the room 70-80 F.

I noticed this browning on several of them. In some cases the whole leaf drys out eventually and falls off. Not all leaves or shoots of the same cutting seem to be affected.

I am somewhat new to this and this is the first time I encountered this. Any insight you can shed on this for me will be greatly appreciated so I can correct course in case I am heading in a bad direction. This is the first time I am rooting them this way in a styro box. Previous attempts using the bag method was successful.

Thanks!

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I still have that current problem.

I have my containers near 100%. I believe this may happen due to too much water saturation in the air. Be prepared to see the leaves possible fall off and the new tips to turn brown and get mushy. Just pinch off when they get to that point. New shoots will bud from the node points. These will turn into branches. 

I am new to this as well and I have saved many cuttings so far this way. I would stop misting the leaves. The moisture in the containers should be enough to keep the air in the bin saturated enough. You can get a cheap temperature gauge with a humidity indicator at Home Depot. Helps me alot! Just leave it in the bin. Humidity should be at about 80%. Some say to keep it cracked a bit. If you see them starting to droop, you can shut it and with-in a few hours they will perk up. I keep them closed all day and fan them open a few times with the covers, once a day.

When I transfer them to 1 gallon containers, it helps me to see the humidity in the room as I slowly acclimate to room temperature witha humidifier.

Roots are your Goal. If you have no roots but big lush growth, it means nothing. The second you take it out it will pretty much drop dead since there won't be enough moisture in the air to keep the plant going.

Your goal is a nice balance of roots and growth, but having as much roots is the best compromise.

....agree that misting is likely your problem. 

When rooting by "indoor" rooting methods like the one you are using..... (outdoor rootng methods are different)


It is never a good idea to have any liquid moisture on new "tender" leaves. Also, any "condensation" that forms on young "unharden" leaves like these is even more of a problem. Condensation is so much chemically pureer than regular tap water; that,  it can get acidic just from the carbon dioxide that is produced by the new roots that are forming inside of your rooting mix.  Condensation can form on leaves when the air temperature changes from warm to cool (near a south side window??).....or even when the outside atmospheric pressure changes. That is true especially when the internal relative humidity inside of your rooting box (styrofoam) is close to 100%.  Bottom line......keep moisture off your leaves and you are less likely to see that browning effect. Don't try to add heat to your box....it is not needed and can cause DAMAGING condesnation to form on the leaves and/or on the tiny roots that are forming inside of your rooting mix. Condensation on roots is bad too.....they will likewise turn brown. This browning can in turn lead to rot and mold. So, remove any leaf from the box that falls off from any of your cuttings and don't intentionally try to add any heat if you cannot in turn prevent condensation from forming either on the leaves or on the roots.

Also, some leaves falling off is normal too.  If the root mass is not there to support the leaves, a rooting cutting will drop extra leaves that the roots cannot yet support. During the rooting process the internal pipeline between the roots and the leaves needs time to develop.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

Dominick and Dan thank you for your insight! Makes sense to me now.

Let me ask you one more thing. Would there be any benefit in allowing filtered light through the top? For example I can stretch some clear plastic wrap on top of the styro box instead of the cover. The container should not get hot since the south facing window is of the low e type which allows very little heat in. My thinking is that some photosynthesis will occur which would spur growth.

Think of it this way......you are "rooting" and not "growing" at this stage of the rooting process. Those cuttings are working off of the internal energy reserves inside of the cutting.....you want to maximize the use of that internal energy. You want to encourage roots to form...not the leaves. You don't want to form leaves that will fall off because the root system is not yet there. At this point those leaves cannot do much in the line of producing much food. In a ideal situation the roots would form before the leaves do. Covering with clear wrap will present no problem as long as you remember to open your bin often enough to allow fresh air to get inside (also helps remove carbon dioxide and stabilize the relative humidity). I root in clear plastic bins so that some filtered sunlight and room light gets inside (not any heat). I do this not for photosynthesis....but, for the beginning of the leaf hardening off process for eventual sunlight exposure.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

You could but then you would have to remove it everytime to check. I check my cuttings almost everyday from head to toe.

Start small. Too many changes at once can affect your success.

I left for 2 days and it screwed up everything.  I have still not recovered.  Everything was going awesome. Roots, green leaves, no browning, only mold on cut ends. Now problems constantly with browning, mushy ends, and constant mold.

Not airing out for 2 days did all that. So start little by little. The smallest change can cause the biggest difference.

Browning leads quickly to rot which then releases the  FOOD that the micro organisms (mold, etc.) need to survive and grow. Their growth rate is exponential and all can go to hell in very short order. Check things daily if you have the time....always remove any leaves that fall off.

Keep in mind that browning on roots too can be very problematic when condensation forms on the roots from temperature differentials. This usually shows up most often when you up pot your cuttings into larger containers and do not maintain an even heat until the roots have harden off. Condensation (not talking about tap water here) of any sort is really a bad actor when it comes to rooting figs using any indoor rooting method. You keep condensation from forming by rooting at an even temperature and keeping a small crack on your bin. If you use a heating mat......you can form damaging condensation on your roots too....it just depends on a few other variables. A heating mat is not really needed....so I don't ever use one.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

If you find yourself ever having to "wick' water away....you have other issues that you should strive to better control. Drainage holes should be mostly for allowing air to move through the rooting zone than used for draining or wicking excess water away.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

Hey Tom

You looked like you were doing well in those videos. My Brooklyn White and Naples White( 1 each from different sources) did the same thing. I potted up 16 at the the same time and they are the only ones that went limp.

I think my problem with those 3 was not enough laterals formed before transferring.

Man, out of town, missed this long one!

I see this when my bins are too humid.  It doesn't always lead to leaf drop, although some leaf drop during rooting is perfectly normal.  I've had cuttings with 6-7 leaves drop all but one or two, and still be perfectly healthy.

I'm having similar leaf drop when transplanting, the first small leaf falls off then the bud keeps growing.

I'm a complete noob, but I noticed the same thing as satellitehead.  About two weeks ago, the leaves on the only cutting that had good leaves and roots fell off.  My container was completely closed and had some excess water on the bottom (oops).  It seems like the humidity did it.

Not all roots are the same nor do they all have the same job function. "Feeder" roots are the type of roots that are capable of moving water and nutrients from your moist mix through the internal pipeline that goes to the leaves. These are very fine and easily damaged. Feeder roots come off of the bigger fatter roots that you see.  The fatter roots do not absorb the water.....they are only part of the pipeline that esists between the leaves and the actual feeder roots. The green mass above the cup or pot MUST be in balance with the "feeder" roots that are below the ground. Whenever these two variables are out of balance......the little tree will automatically respond accordingly. 

>>>Should feeder roots get damaged by condensate or water or by your transplanting........the plant will respond to this "imbalance" by dropping leaves. Don't damage the feeder roots and you will not lose any leaves.

>>>I am sure you have all seen this.......Cut off the top branches of a harden off fig tree.......and the plant will respond to this imbalance (i.e. now has excess roots) by VIGORUS new growth.



Leaves dropping off as a result of a root/leaf inbalance is not the same issue as leaves that are chemicaly burnt  because of condensate/carbon dioxide issues I spoken about before or leaves that are being attacked by micro organisms.

Dan
Semper Fi-cus

........one other thing concening leaves and the re-building of the internal pipeline of a cutting during the rooting process:

Until the new rooted cutting actually has developed the "feeder roots" that will actually do the transferring of water and nutrients to the leaves.......the leaves CANNOT produce any new food of any significant consequence for the new plant to use. During the photosynthesis reaction 6 parts of Carbon Dioxide combines with 6 PARTS OF WATER.......in order to produce new plant energy. Without the ability of water to flow through the internal pipeline and then actuall get inside of the individual leaf CELLS........this chemical reaction CANNOT OCCUR. Of course it takes the presence of green chlorophyll and sunlight in order for this reaction to occur in the first place.

Dan

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