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What do you do when you have leaf growth before roots?

Hi,
I am Mathew, new member here, from Rockland county, NY. Recently got interested in figs and have been lurking here for a while. Bought some cuttings, mostly from forum members, and have been trying to propagate them.
I have the cuttings in plastic cups filled with coir, some with coir at bottom of cup and moss at top. The cups are in a sealed plastic tub over a heat mat set at 80 degrees. Room air temp is around 75 degrees.
There is low ambient light in the room where the cuttings are. The cuttings were not scored or dipped in rooting hormone.
The cuttings show some leaf growth after two weeks. Today I was checking for root growth and found only one cutting with about eight roots coming out. Some cuttings have the ends bulged up, probably the initial stage of roots. Some look exactly the same as how they were planted, with absolutely no sign of root growth.
Assuming the emerging leaves need some light I put the plastic tub under a shop light with four daylight fluorescent bulbs.

My questions are:

Is it a mistake to put the cuttings under light now since they do not have any roots?

Can I still take them out, dip them in Clonex and re-plant in the cups?

When you scrape the outer skin off before dipping in rooting hormone how deep the scrapes should be?

What is your opinion on Clonex vs dip-n-grow? I bought both.

Thank you very much in advance. Attached  below is a photo of the cuttings as they look today.

Mathew cuttings-3-8-15.jpg 






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  • james
  • · Edited

1) I normally keep my bins near a south facing window.  I like a little light, plus it helps keep the bin warm.
2) No.  There might be roots you are not able to see.  You risk damaging them by taking them out.  Leave them in the cups
3) Scrape until you see the green cambium layer.  I scrape or make a half moon cut under the nodes.
4) I have not used dip n grow.  I did some experimenting with root hormone vs no root hormone last year.  While those with hormones seemed to root faster, there was a very slight edge to the ones not dipped in overall success rate.

Hi Matt, being a newbie myself please rely more on further comments,but I think your right on target. Your cuttings look great and the roots will catch up. I wouldn't do anything further as far as the hormones, save it for future cuttings and don't remove the cuttings looking for roots. Patience, unless you get a major die off. Looks good!

Thank you, Dave and James.
I guess it is too late, since I took all of them out to check for roots. They are all back in the cups now.
Some of the cuttings that showed no swelling for roots were scraped and dipped in Clonex before replanting, just out of curiosity. If they survive, fine. If they don't, well, it is part of learning.

You may want to pay closer attention to the ones with leaf growth but no roots since they got off on the wrong foot.
I think it may help them if you make sure the RH for those is on the high side 85%RH. 
I put a plastic dome on the ones that leaf out before roots are formed so to keep the humidity constant and high for them.  You still need to air them out once in a while.
.

Re: Clonex and Dip n'grow, I use both. I understand that clonex is a newer generation product and is therefore slightly less "toxic" for lack of a better word. I still prefer Dip n'grow, but be aware there is anecdotal evidence that hormone can produce thick roots and stunt leaf growth, I think you should use 15x Dip n'grow or nothing at all, the hormone speeds up by a week or two the rooting process, not worth it if you ask me (yet I continue to use it-habit I guess).

  • mic

I had exactly the same question. I searched the forum history and found a couple of people recommended to apply a very weak strength foliar feed to trigger roots.  I'm trying it now myself but my situation is a little different to yours. I've been looking at leaves for one month and my cuttings are summer cuttings. There is a risk of burning the leaves or promoting mould but in my case I decided it was worth the risk.

If I was you though I would leave them be for a while longer before worrying and trying anything drastic.

I tried Clonex gel about 2 years ago, straight from the bottle, dip the cutting and place in a pot. Results were terrible so I modified the method a little and results were amazing. I put a few drops in a gallon of water, stirred/shook the &%$# out of it and placed the rooting end of the cuttings in to soak for a few minutes. Then, I potted the cuttings and shared the rooting solution with the potted cuttings and the results are truly great. I plan on starting a thread to show the results along with my very unorthodox method of rooting. Be prepared to control your sense of humor.

Quote:
You may want to pay closer attention to the ones with leaf growth but no roots since they got off on the wrong foot.
I think it may help them if you make sure the RH for those is on the high side 85%RH. 
I put a plastic dome on the ones that leaf out before roots are formed so to keep the humidity constant and high for them.  You still need to air them out once in a while.


I do not have a humidity meter, but humidity is high in the plastic container where the cuttings are. I keep it closed with only a small gap and open the lid and air it out every day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by waynea
I tried Clonex gel about 2 years ago, straight from the bottle, dip the cutting and place in a pot. Results were terrible so I modified the method a little and results were amazing. I put a few drops in a gallon of water, stirred/shook the &%$# out of it and placed the rooting end of the cuttings in to soak for a few minutes. Then, I potted the cuttings and shared the rooting solution with the potted cuttings and the results are truly great. I plan on starting a thread to show the results along with my very unorthodox method of rooting. Be prepared to control your sense of humor.


That is an interesting idea. Will try my next batch of cuttings this way. Can't wait to read about your adventures in rooting :-)

Hi Mathew, Welcome to the forum!

I think James had very good points and I do not have much to add except for one important thing. As a general rule, do not move the cuttings as this can tare any little roots that may be growing under. They are very flimsy and gentle when they first start coming out.  I  Always Super clear cups to see the root growth and even to check on the humidity inside.  you will have a hard time telling the humidity in there in a few weeks form today. 

I personally never use root hormones, and have a pretty high success rate when rooting (about 80 to 90%). My biggest problem when rooting thus far has come from maintaining humidity at an appropriate level and assuring cuttings are not to wet (cause they will rot).

Good luck! from the other side of the river!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mic
I had exactly the same question. I searched the forum history and found a couple of people recommended to apply a very weak strength foliar feed to trigger roots.  I'm trying it now myself but my situation is a little different to yours. I've been looking at leaves for one month and my cuttings are summer cuttings. There is a risk of burning the leaves or promoting mould but in my case I decided it was worth the risk.

If I was you though I would leave them be for a while longer before worrying and trying anything drastic.


Yes, that is what I have been thinking too. Will leave them alone with the lights on them for two weeks or so.

I know everyone is different. But i have done a 2 month trial on light verse dark. 100% on rooting in the dark is superior. Leaves may pop alittle and be yellow but roots explode in 10 to 15 days.
I do many methods of rooting just for enjoyment but one gallon zip lock bags filled with coir hydrated with vitamino is awsome.

Richard,
What is Vitamino?

it is a mixture of micro / macro and amino acids grate stuff. Get you a bottle from ebay. I mix it stronger then the directions tell you to. 3 teaspoons to 1/2 gallon instead of 1 gallon. I use this mix to hydrate the coco coir that i got from ebay cocogro. Works grate

Richard,

Do you mind posting a picture of the back label?  I've been trying to find out what is in the bottle, but it seems to be a secret on the internet... trying to ready about Vitamino the internet reminds me of trying to read about Superthrive.  All I find is a bunch of anecdotal stories.

Thanks

Here it is. Its says on front amino acids but i dont see it on front. Either way it gives explosive root development in the bag of coir closed shut in the total dark kept warm

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Thanks, Richard. Will give this a try.

Only Nitrogen listed in the back, nothing else!It also says the vitamin B1 is not a plant food material.

Richard, are you sure your results are not just placebo effect?? :-)

Thanks Richard.  It appears to be similar to Superthrive (B vitamins and amino acids) with a little bit nitrogen.  

could be mat !!!! I also started telling my cuttings how special they are !!! They have good attitudes. Lol

What if you get a little fig before there are leaves? One of my cuttings showed a little green bump and I thought it was sprouting. Today I checked it with a magnifying glass, and it's a little fig emerging, but there are no signs of any sprout bumps anywhere. No roots are showing through the cup. Is the cutting living or dying? I have had both little figs and sprouts on some of my other cuttings. I broke off the figs so more energy would go to the sprouts. But this little twig has no other place to put its energy. Should I leave it on and hope a sprout develops from the node, then remove the fig? Thanks in advance. 

Like this!!! Lol. I ate mine
i was told to take them off by most people but one oerson said it could cause cutting to bleed out. I will go check my cutting in pic above i took them off 3 days ago and put back in coir. I will get back with you. Richie from louisiana zone 8

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I cut them in half (or a bit more) with a sharp knife or razor.  The cutting will start to abort the fruit allowing a scab to form before it falls off.

James good thinking ahead

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