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What do you think about "open source seeds"?

Tami,
Remember that ducks will eat the slugs.

Michael,
We had slugs in Washington but I haven't seen one in the 7 years we've been in Texas.

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Originally Posted by Ampersand
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Originally Posted by Hortstu
The current purpose of GMOs is to sell more round up and other herbicides and pesticides.


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No, it's not. When grown as recommended by agricultural authorities round-up resistant and BT corn was supposed to massively reduce the need for chemical pesticide and herbicide inputs, NOT increase yields directly. This means proper crop rotation between plant families and planting portions of fields with non-GM varieties of the same plant (ie: half BT Corn and half regular corn).


Oops. sorry I wasn't going by the information put out by their propaganda wing.  I was referring what was actually going on in the industry and herbicide sales have gone up exponentially since the release of the first GMO crops.

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Contrary to often-repeated claims that today’s genetically-engineered crops have, and are reducing pesticide use, the spread of glyphosate-resistant weeds in herbicide-resistant weed management systems has brought about substantial increases in the number and volume of herbicides applied. If new genetically engineered forms of corn and soybeans tolerant of 2,4-D are approved, the volume of 2,4-D sprayed could drive herbicide usage upward by another approximate 50%. The magnitude of increases in herbicide use on herbicide-resistant hectares has dwarfed the reduction in insecticide use on Bt crops over the past 16 years, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. http://www.enveurope.com/content/24/1/24


You're relying on the govt... the biotech's public relations group.  The same people that have appointed massive numbers of biotech people to high level positions in which they're going to have a serious conflict of interest!
http://http://rense.com/general33/fd.htm

I'd list them all here but that would make this post way to long, and it probably already is but most importantly Former Monsanto Vice President Michael R. Taylor is the current Deputy Commissioner for Foods at the United States FDA.

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Farmers ignored these recommendations and planted massive monocultures of same strain of the same crop year after year (there was too much profit to change it up), with the same weed and pest management programs. That led to accelerated adaptation/evolution of pests and weeds to resist the toxins.


Farmers continued to plant the same way they always planted monoculture and no one convinced them to do otherwise, and if it was so important then it shouldn't have been a "recommendation" it should have been a requirement.

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This NOW means there needs to be heavier use of herbicides and pesticides in all systems, not just GM fields.


That's not entirely true.  There's much more organic produce being grown today than before GMOs were released.

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While I believe more research needs to be done into the potential health risks of GM crops, I refuse to completely close that toolbox.


I never suggested we "close the toolbox."  Nor did I notice anyone else suggest that.  I don't want to outlaw research, I want more done!  I don't want to stop progress, I want to know what I'm feeding my kid!  The current biotech companies have made their motives clear by taking farms from small farmers by lawsuiting them to death and then making them available to the larger farmers that grow their crops.   

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In properly managed systems GM plants should have been  productive with much fewer inputs.


However that hasn't been the case in the real world.

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However, the quest for profits on the part of industrial scale farmers


Yes blame the farmers.  Who is making the bulk of the profit off of GMOs?  Which farmers are committing suicide by the thousands by drinking round up in the fields because they're losing their farms to even bigger farmers?  Conventional or GMO farmers?

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essentially doomed what should have been a useful part of a multi-leveled approach (no-till, cover cropping, crop rotation, using targeted pesticides instead of broad spectrum, etc) to increasing crop yields and decreasing inputs.


Large scale farmers rarely used sustainable practices before they grew GMOs inspite of the fact that it would have been better for everyone if they did it then!  Why would they start making the process more expensive and labor intensive just because they got a seed that promised them more money with less work?

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I'm not attacking you personally, I've just read a great deal of misinformed opinions from many people and it upsets me that conclusions are drawn without understanding the facts and reasons for GM plants being introduced.


...and I'm not attacking you personally.  I'm just pointing out that the propaganda doesn't always match the reality, and if you're saying I don't understand the facts then I would consider that an insult.

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I have education in agriculture and and degree in horticulture, so I try to inform other people of what the story behind GM plants is.


I  have a minor in agroecology and a major in horticulture from one of the first land grant universities.  I actually did some work towards my graduate degree but realized too late the direction of the industry and where the money was coming from and how it impacted the work and views of the majority of my professors.  The others were very careful not to upset the apple cart by saying anything anti GMO...
but I don't like to throw this information around to make myself sound credible.  I just use facts for that.

The story you're telling is nothing more than that, a fairy tale that's become a nightmare.

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Originally Posted by bullet08
tell me why you hate GMO so much? and i'll tell you why i don't mind it so much.. wait. i already listed number of reasons. one of the top reason is uncontrollable population explosion. more yield, better nutrients and all other things are possible.


...and I pointed out that no GMOs are currently increasing yields or increasing nutrition.  I'm not against GMOs.  I'm against sneaking them into the food supply, I'm against the way they're currently being used,  I'm against the lack of research on their safety, I'm against the revolving door between the biotech companies and our government.http://redgreenandblue.org/2012/02/02/monsanto-employees-in-the-halls-of-government-part-2/

I'm against releasing things into the environment that we will never be able to remove before we're sure they're safe

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you yourself have indicated that golden rice as one, there are others.. vitamin enriched corn is another. the possibility of using GMO to feed the population that's going hungry is limitless. 


It's been in production for 20 years but isn't being pushed to be grown anywhere commercially.  It still hasn't been approved to be grown anywhere.  In fact GE salmon is closer to getting approved than golden rice.  Then the fact remains that this GE crop will be contaminating heirloom and other varieties with its genetics.  There is no closing pandoras box.

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there. by the way, your argument that GMO is plain bad doesn't work. we started this 1000s of yrs ago when human first started breeding crops and animals. we have just figured out what else we can do with it if we can manipulate the gene. 


I never said it was plain bad.  Don't try to compare conventional breeding, the same thing that happens in nature, with GE which only happens in a lab and introduces genes from different species, that have no way of getting together in nature.

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so my bottom line? GMO can feed people who are going hungry. what's your point? 


My point is that GM isn't being used to feed hungry people it's being used to feed greedy wallets.  Currently the problem with feeding hungry people isn't the crops available to us it is the lack of infrastructure in the developing world.  When a company comes along that does research to show that their products are safe long term, that they're actually trying to help people with their products instead of just their wallets, and using that money to influence governments, and they're ok with labeling their products so that those that don't want them don't have to consume them I won't have a problem with that company.

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Originally Posted by alanmercieca
GMO it's self is a very good thing if it's not abused, what's bad is that better methods need to be invented to do GMO, ones that everyone can agree is safe. Oh an preferably methods that are much cheaper, cheap enough for the average person to afford it.


Again I never said the technology was bad, just that it hasn't been proven safe in any long term research.  I said that the current use of the technology isn't being used for the benefit of the end consumer but for corporate profits and government lobbying.

The techniques being used to introduce foreign genes into a new organism aren't what isn't safe.  What is questionable is the safety of the organisms being produced.  CHanging the way the genes are introduced won't change the impact the organism has on the consumer or the environment.

Hortsu, well said.  Will you be marching against monsanto May 24?

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Originally Posted by ejp3
Hortsu, well said.  Will you be marching against monsanto May 24?


Ed,
I don't believe that organized protests accomplish much more than getting us on watch lists in these days of "designated free speech zones."  That being said I still go to a few now and then and I expect to be at the March against Monsanto.  My wife's 7.5 months pregnant so everything for the next few months is tentative.  If I do go will I see you at the NYC protest?

For those that don't know here's some highlights to Michael Taylor's resume.

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Michael R Taylor:
  • Taylor started off as a partner at the law firm that represented Monsanto on GBH issues (artificial growth hormones that make cows give more milk).
  • Then, as the FDA’s deputy commissioner for policy, he wrote the FDA’s rBGH labelling guidelines – the ones that insisted there was no difference between rGBH and regular milk.
  • He also deleted references to problems with GMO foods, over the objection of staff scientists.
  • Then he spent a few years working directly for Monsanto.
  • And now? Barak Obama brought him back to the FDA to oversee Monsanto again, as his food safety issues czar!


source:http://redgreenandblue.org/2012/02/02/monsanto-employees-in-the-halls-of-government-part-2/

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Originally Posted by ejp3
Hortsu, well said.  Will you be marching against monsanto May 24?


Ed,
Just wanted you add that in my opinion depriving these corporations of our dollars, while difficult, is the most effective form of protest.

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