Just curious.

A new member, 'kngskid' posted a thread about persimmons that I was highly interested in recently.  New member.  Never seen this member before.  Magically, thread is deleted from the annuls of internet history.

What gives?

Where'd it go?

Member 'kngskid' shows having four posts, but when searching for all posts from this person, they don't exist.

Is there some reason this member decided to delete this thread?  Looks like something 'aeilee' would've done, to be frank.

I would love to somehow have this post resurrected with the information within.  I'd also love to know why it was removed by the original poster (kngskid - because Jon doesn't delete threads).

Yes, I, too, was very interested in the persimmon info. Fortunately I got a lead on what sounds like a great variety (Saijo) before the thread vanished.

Maybe Jon should block the delete option and just leave the edit part.

Persimmon is my favorite fruit I am growing, yes I love it above figs. I have about 12 cultivar, but not all producing as of yet. Kngskid was asking about TANENASHI as I recall and I was going to respond, but did not, as I actually don’t grow that cultivar by choice. I have tasted it and always thought it was pasty and dry and while it has good production and even when pollinated produces seedless fruit as I understand there are others I prefer. It is one of the first cultivars to be grown extensively on the east coast, but I there are better cultivars in fruit to my taste.  I do grow Saijo, and while a smaller fruit as far as the astringent cultivars it always seems to get high praise and I agree.

Not a bad suggestion, Rafed--although I have to say I've seen a few threads vanish that won't be missed, at least by me. However, it's unfortunate when a useful thread gets deleted.

The Persimmon cultivars I am trying are listed below.  all are Asian Kaki with the exception of Early Golden which is a American. and Nikita's gift which is a hybrid of Asian X American. Of my own trees I have only tasted Fuyu, Saijo, and Tamopan. This is 3rd year planted for a couple of my trees, and 2nd year for most. I have tasted a few others.

The 2 most general categories of persimmon would be astringent and non-astringent. You can get into Pollination factors on astringency but I won't detail that here. Astringent's need to soften prior to eating, Non-astringent can be eaten hard or soft, and normally are best just as they start to soften. 

 The astringent ones you would most likely encounter in your stores would be Hachiya, or Tanenashi. Hachiya is very nice and grown commercially in California, but reportedly bears poorly in the southeast, and I have not planted it for that reason. Tanenashi was one of the earliest planted cultivars on the east coast and bears heavy and reliably, but most consider the fruit inferior and the ones I have tasted were comparatively dry and pasty. But I have never tasted one fresh ripened from the tree, so possibly it would be like comparing a tree ripened fig to store produce one.
 
  Non-astringent you will find will most likely will be labeled Fuyu. Fig's are not the only fruit with naming confusion. Fuyu has at times been used generically for any non-astringent. Much of what is grown in California as Fuyu is actually Jiro, as well as some Matsumoto Wase Fuyu I have been told. I have Fuyu that have fruited from 2 different sources and they are different, but I have not had that many fruit to compare them side by side yet. I think most taste pretty similar and the degree of ripeness and when are they are picked is probably a bigger factor. You can eat a non-astringent any time after it colors ups, but I find them  bland early compared to just before they soften.

Of Astringents I always hear positives on Saijo and Giombo.

Of Non-astringents I think all the Fuyu and Jiro and it's sports are pretty similar tasting, at least to my palate, which may not be that discerning. I know that Izu took 1st place at one taste testing that was done at the same time as a Pomegranate testing, but as Izu is one of earliest ripening NONs maybe the timing of the event factored in.

There are PVNA cultivars that are astringent when hard when not pollinated, but when seeded are supposed to be very rich tasting. I have tried a couple fruit, but have been trying to keep my fruit seedless, so those currently are not my focus. A couple of them would be Nishimura wase and Chocolate. I think more that one cultivar is sold as Chocolate as well. The flesh of PVNA around the seeds turns brownish as well related to the astringency leaving when seeded.

What I have to this point:

In Ground:
Eureka
Fuyu
Great Wall
Matsumoto Wase Fuyu
Saijo
Tamopan
Izu

I looked up the Giombo and it sounds like a good possibility too--it may come down to what I can find. Do you do your own grafting? How about air-layering--do you know whether that can work on a persimmon? (I tried it on my Hachiya, but it didn't work--although I may have given up too soon.)

Interesting thread...don't DELETE this one!  I grew up with a persimmon tree on the family farm.  It was huge when we moved in, and eventually died due to a lightning strike.   I have no idea as to the cultivar, I just remember eating them when they were soft and that they had seeds.  The skins went from yellow to pumpkin orange, the flesh was deep pumpkin colored and the best tasting thing ever.  As kids, we literally would scamper up the tree and sit on the limbs (there were 6-8 of us always together), grabbing the fruit and climbing higher and higher as we wanted more.  

I'm interested in trying to graft scion wood from a named variety onto seedling rootstock. Can anyone tell me the best seeds for this purpose? Should they be from Diospyros virginiana, or does it even matter?

Sara,

I am pretty sure that would been a native Diospyros Virginiana, probably not a named cultivar. Most of the native trees have pleasant fruit after softening and the astringency is gone. If you ever tried a firm one you would remember it.

Ken,

 I graft some of my own. Last year I ordered seedling Diospyros Virginiana from the state forestry service inexpensive seedling programs to try and graft some scion I was obtaining but the rootstock was really too small and I should have let it size up, I got several to take with the whip graft on some of the smaller scion, but most scion was too large for the rootstock. I tried chip budding those later in the summer with little success. My main failure was the small rootstocks where not established enough and I was grafting on to bare root stock. The limited grafting I did prior was bark graft on to established tree and had very high success.

 You can graft to either Diospyros Virginiana, Diospyros Kaki, or Diospyros lotus. Some cultivars have reported incompatibility with Virginia. I know on the east coast most use Virginia. It is the most cold hardy, is more tap rooted, which has good and bad points, and is probably the most adaptable to soil conditions. I am not saying it best I know west coast places use both Kaki and Lotus, but I have only had Virginia to work with. If any of your Kaki have seeds use them, but I doubt with the 2 cultivar you have they are seeded. I don't believe either of them have male flowers. I don't have any seeds right now, but I can be on the lookout for some. they are not uncommon trees here. You just have to beat the deer, coons, possums, and development to them. I already PMed with you about the scion.

I have never tried airlayering or heard of it being tried on persimmon.  Rooting the cuttings I have read is possible, but not easy.   I am pretty novice myself with them.  There is a lot of good info on the GardenWeb Fruits&Orchards  forum, but they seem to have issues with their archives it seems many times I look for a past informative thread it seems gone.

Thanks Phil--ordering seedlings sounds like a good idea. I've been looking through some GardenWeb threads, but it's tough going--I guess I haven't figured out how things are organized yet, so finding useful info is kind of hit-or-miss. One guy said he planned to experiment with air layering Persimmons, but it was an old post with no follow-up.

The nursery my wife works for grafts thousands of fuyu and they have tried airlayering and have talked to others who have tried it with no success.

But they do graft very easy if done at the proper time

Thanks Jim--sounds like I ought to focus on grafting!

Thanks for the info.  I think persimmon will go on my "need to research and plant list".

SORRY satellitehead, I deleted the thread when someone suggested that I go post my question on Garden Web in the Fruit and Orchard Forum where people who grow persimmons hang out, which I did a few months ago but didn't get many responses.  I realized this was a fig forum when I posted the question but I wanted to hear from someone that had knowledge about Tanenashi because I just couldn't find much on my own and I saw that Dan listed Tanenashi as one that he was growing (posted 2010).  Thank you all that responded in place of Dan.  Apparently Tanenashi makes for a beautiful tree but not many people could say they enjoyed eating the fruit and I don't have room for just beautiful so I changed my order from Tanenashi to Fuyu.  Sorry for the confusion.  Have a great weekend!   

Passed quite a few american persimmons with ripening fruit yesterday on a short trip out of town.  No frost yet.  My wife likes them, but I have not acquired a taste for them yet.  Now the japanese type really intrigue me.  I pass an occasional tree here and there that appears to ripen.  I just love to see the trees with ripening fruit.  I think they are beautiful.  However, the only ones I've tasted are store bought and they have also not inspired me.  I need to taste a non astringent AND ripe one sometime.  I've had persimmon pudding which I really liked

Thanks, figs or not, I enjoyed the post and definitely missed it!  I was hoping someone woulda copied it before it got dumped.