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What is a well rooted cutting waiting for delaying shoots for many weeks and sometimes months ?

So many times a cutting will show shoots even before the root initial appears. But then there are many cases where a healthy cutting, with a number of nodes under the soil surface, will get a bundle of good roots but no shoots for many weeks. 
I have seen examples when shoot appears from under the soil surface after a few weeks but other times nothing happens for many weeks and sometimes months. Sometimes roots brown up and give up I guess and the bark either shrivel or the bark gets mushy and separates from the wood if over-moist soil.

What is botanical explanation as to what goes on under the soil surface in such cases? what causes suchh delays?

I'm far from an expert but, my best guess would be it's mineral deficient/dehydrated and is prioritizing the spread of its root over its leaves as it couldn't support them the other way around. That or there's a magical root gnome that randomly decides your cuttings fate.

I personally think it's the root gnome

Thanks for your input. 
These reluctant cuttings are in a 4'L, 2'W  x 2'H rooting tent at 76~77F and 50~60% RH along with other cuttings that have rooted and shooted, both having come from same sources with similar path and rooting medium (from source to short storage to Sphagnum moss to soil). That is what makes the situation mysterious. 
We often would not question such behaviour if they were being rooted in isolation with no comparison with others subjected to the process under the same conditions.

Ottawan, I generally have good success propagating figs; however, the situation you describe is my biggest problem.  I have four cuttings (two cuttings each of two varieties from Italy) that were started in October that put out roots in about 3 weeks and still have not put out leaves.  Two other cuttings taken at the same time and subjected to the same conditions (but from a 3rd variety) also put out roots first but then later put out leaves and are doing well.  I did use dilute rooting hormone on all 6 of those cuttings (30 second dip of bottom end in 10x dip 'n grow) but I doubt if this is the explanation. It does seem as though there is some relationship to the variety.  More recently when starting my own cuttings I have had really good success with using very short (but relatively thick) cuttings of just 1-2 nodes buried under the surface of potting mix in 18 oz cups and combining this approach with the 3-cup method previously described on this forum.  

I'm with Figglet, definitely a root gnome

  • ricky
  • · Edited

In this post:

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/japanese-fig-growing-techniques-%E3%82%A4-%E3%83%81%E3%82%B8-%E3%82%AF-%E3%81%AE-%E6%A0%BD%E5%9F%B9-7900438?pid=1290673344

and This very simple Japanese grower guide
http://www.ari.pref.niigata.jp/nourinsui/manual/ichijiku/ktichimanu.pdf

It seems that it is something to do with small bud above node area, If it is flat and weak, It will take longer time to develop to shoot.

Sometime, If it has both figlet bud beside leaf bud, it will take longer time to develop leaf shoots.

fig_tree_node_bud1.jpg

Ricky, now that I think about it, the cuttings I have that tend to have this problem were taken from the end of branches and have the terminal bud on them.  I'm actually thinking of cutting that terminal bud off to activate nodes further down.  It's a desperation move but they have been sitting there without leaves for months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rewton
Ricky, now that I think about it, the cuttings I have that tend to have this problem were taken from the end of branches and have the terminal bud on them.  I'm actually thinking of cutting that terminal bud off to activate nodes further down.  It's a desperation move but they have been sitting there without leaves for months.


That is an interesting theory. I have a few that are rooting very slowly too. And they are either really thick cuttings or they are terminal end cuttings.

Please let us know the results of this experiment if you decide to go through with it! I might try it as well.

  I have two types that I had not given up on and removed the pots today. One was fresh cut, small leaf then died, Salem Dark, and the second was dormant older wood, Brooklyn White. They were planted in late October and the cuttings always felt firm in the pot, so I kept up hope. Both containers have significant root growth to the bottom, and no leaves. I have a Carini that did this. It eventually sent up a shoot at the edge of the container. I think the others will come along.

   I think losing @10 F in the basement from winter slowed things a bit. I'll try to get up a couple pics.

                                                Mike

Had a few that rooted like crazy - better than almost any cutting has ever rooted, and they never broke a bud, even in a warm green house, when everything around them was doing fine. Just the vagaries of dealing with living organisms, I assume.

I have just had a similar experience. Five cuttings of varying thickness. All off one stem. All cut from a  local unknown so the. cuttings were very fresh. My 1st attempt I used rooting hormone. In a matter of less than a week it had pushed a bundle of roots out. Put it in Promix HP....nothing. Never a leaf.Thinking it was the rooting hormone I did not use it the 2nd time. But I did score the cutting. Same thing. Large bundle of roots in less than a week. But no leaves ever appeared. The cutting shriveled and the roots eventually died. Third time I did not score and no rooting hormone. Roots appeared quickly. No leaves. No bud swell. 4th 5th. Now I will go in the spring when there is active growth. It may be that particular stem just had some type of defect. 

It is getting frustrating now. The roots started 40 days ago but still no shoot. The roots are healthy and fresh and thriving. Two small buds above the soil are doing nothing! I hope that a bud or two under the soil surface may be dong well and may eventually
make it to the surface. I will be disappointed if it eventually fails. This is the only cutting i have of this variety.

DSCF4817.JPG 

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 DSCF4816.JPG   


Ottawan, this is anecdotal but I have fount recently but exposing the nodes to as much direct sun as possible in front of a south facing window seems to trigger them to put out a shoot.  Of course you need to the temperature to be optimal as well but it seems like the sunlight really helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OttawanZ5
So many times a cutting will show shoots even before the root initial appears. But then there are many cases where a healthy cutting, with a number of nodes under the soil surface, will get a bundle of good roots but no shoots for many weeks. 
I have seen examples when shoot appears from under the soil surface after a few weeks but other times nothing happens for many weeks and sometimes months. Sometimes roots brown up and give up I guess and the bark either shrivel or the bark gets mushy and separates from the wood if over-moist soil.

What is botanical explanation as to what goes on under the soil surface in such cases? what causes suchh delays?


Google blind eyes in fruit trees

KY
I did google 'blind eyes in fruit trees' but could not find anything related to the issue.
Can you elaborate?

http://forums.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/threads/citrus-tbudding.23274/

This thread talks about it.  Fast flush of growth causes it.

Thanks Kayyada.
The cutting was received in trade so hard to say which part of the tree branch it came from.
Now only time will tell if the good roots will eventually brown up and give up or a good shoot will appear eventually. It is all part of the rooting fun in winter.

I've had quite of a few of those myself Akram..  4 this winter. Its quite frustrating to see a cutting with a cup full of roots and no growth when the one right next to in in the same environment does well. Last year I had one that went 4 months before it finally pushed out growth. But usually the cutting eventually fails from my experience. I don't know if this would do anything or not but what if you put that cup in the fridge and force it into dormancy for a couple months?? Maybe that would trigger growth when you took it out?? Just thinking out loud actually lol .

You might could graft something on it! If it died back it would be what the rootstock was...

Hi Ottawan,
Since roots are growing, they are seeking nutrients. So I would give some fertilizer to that cutting.
Once it will have all reserves full, it will send a shoot ... or die . But at least, you've done your max.
I had one send shoots from under the dirt last year. As of today, that pot has 3 root-shoots, one big, one medium and one that I just spotted yesterday.
So for me, that cutting is trying to find a nutrient that it is missing. Once it has gathered everything, it will send a bud or a stem.
Last year, I fertilized mine, used patience and it worked . If you let it on its own, it may exhaust its reserves and die from something it is missing.
In such a case, I prefer to possibly kill them with too much (fertilizer) rather than with not enough and having regrets.
Just, my way ...

I am also having this happen with cuttings from December.

Last week put the cutting bin in a sunny window during the day and now am starting to see some buds breaking out. 
It could just be the timing.  But I feel the Sun light does help by give penetrating heat and fuller light spectrum hitting the exposed cutting.

jdsfrance
Thanks. That is what I have been thinking i.e. to fertilize but was hesitant for fear of drowning it in moisture for a longer period than it would have been if it had some leaves to transpire. But with another opinion, your's, I did it. I fertilized it with a liquid 'plant starter fertilize 10-52-10' because that was the only kind available inside; other kinds are under 2.5 ft of snow outside in a storage. 
 To drain some of the moisture from rooting medium as a precaution,, I placed tissue paper wicks in the bottom holes to draw out the excess moisture at the bottom.
Now it is more fun for figs to watch.

i would reepot ,that will help the roots stay alive longer, also fertilize and expose to sun

So I have several rooted cuttings seemingly stuck in limbo too. What fertilizer (numbers, brand) do you recommend?

Jodi, I am not expert but since it is related to greening and leafing so my guess (only) would be some kind of high nitrogen fertilize. Bur it is only a guess and wait until someone who knows says something.

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