Why are my fig trees dying??

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Figsation

Registered:1372391943
Posts: 63

Posted 1431277070	Reply with quote #1

Hi, I live in coastal Southern California. I planted about 50 fig trees about 15 years ago. Unfortunately, for some unexplained reason many of my fig trees have been slowly dying from the top down. Spring comes and they just don't put out very much leaves. The tops of branches die off. Over a year or two most of the branch dies almost down to the stump. With no leaves the trunk and branches that are still alive get sun burned. This accelerates the decline. This is all very strange because for the first 10 years or so, I didn't see very much of this problem. The trees just took care of themselves. Even when I didn't water them enough they seemed to do fine. But now something is wrong. I have lost at least 15 trees and the majority of my trees look sick. I fear that by next year, the majority of my orchard will be effectively dead. I have tried reviving some of these trees with hand watering, fertilizer, etc. But they don't push out more leaves. They just keep going down hill. The trees seem to show no interest in putting out enough leaves. They show no vigor. Does anyone have any ideas what the possible causes of this could be? Attached Images sick_fig_tree.JPG (167.35 KB, 159 views) __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

pino

Registered:1383190021
Posts: 2,118

Posted 1431277813	Reply with quote #2

There are so many factors to consider. You need to enlist some local expert help to see if they can find the problem. Are there fig farmers or Univ. extension programs nearby that can come and investigate? In the meanwhile see if you can take some suckers with roots or cuttings and get some new trees going for possible re-plant. __________________ Pino, zone 6, Niagara, JCJ Acres Wish; Peace on earth and more figs Italian 258, Galicia Negra, Luv, trade suggestions welcome.

Speedmaster

Registered:1404377112
Posts: 385

Posted 1431277889	Reply with quote #3

See if you have RKN. __________________ Weather: Winter: 10C+ Summer: 42C+ Growing: Syrian Unk., Atreano, Egyptian Unk., Lebanese Unk., Col de dame Gris, Beall, Negronne, Ronde de bordeaux, Brogiotto Bianco Wish List: Panache.

Figsation

Registered:1372391943
Posts: 63

Posted 1431278296 · Edited	Reply with quote #4

Pino, there are no experts in my city. I am the only person here that has a collection like this. I am the "expert" for this area. Speedmaster, Could RKN kill mature trees? How do I find out if I have an RKN problem? I have a clay like soil. I read that RKN favors sandy soil. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

dkirtexas

Registered:1341345900
Posts: 1,334

Posted 1431278960	Reply with quote #5

With the drought situation out there you might be getting saltwater intrusion into your local aquifer. It doesn't take much for the aquifer to drop below sea level in drought scenarios. Are you watering with municipal or well water? If it is a shallow well it could be intrusion. Good luck. __________________ Thx, glad to be here Danny K "EL CAZADOR DE HIGO" Waskom Tx Zone 7B/8 Wish list: anything anyone wants me to have. LSU RED. Any LSU fig.

Speedmaster

Registered:1404377112
Posts: 385

Posted 1431279544	Reply with quote #6

See if the surface roots have knots. It can stress a tree and in drought can affect water intake. __________________ Weather: Winter: 10C+ Summer: 42C+ Growing: Syrian Unk., Atreano, Egyptian Unk., Lebanese Unk., Col de dame Gris, Beall, Negronne, Ronde de bordeaux, Brogiotto Bianco Wish List: Panache.

Figsation

Registered:1372391943
Posts: 63

Posted 1431280046	Reply with quote #7

dkitexas, I get most of my water from rain fall over the winter. The rest of the year, I use city water with drip irrigation. The city water is very hard and has high TDS, but I don't think the water is killing the trees, because the other tropical trees in my orchard are just fine. Although, my apple trees are also not pushing out leaves as much as they should. Other stone fruits are doing OK. Strangely the fig trees are the ones being targeted, even though they were the most forgiving in the past. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

james

Registered:1189185103
Posts: 1,653

Posted 1431281537	Reply with quote #8

I would definitely look at the roots for the problem. Unless there is another stressor, RKN generally will not take down a mature fig tree... especially in a single year. Unless you spread dirt/much recently, I wouldn't expect it to spread so uniformly or quickly. To check for RKN, dig up the roots a foot or two from the trunk and check for galls on the roots. I've seen many members from California complain of underground rodents gnawing on tree roots. Perhaps a local agricultural extension could provide other possibilities. __________________ In containers - Littleton, CO (zone 5b) In ground - N.E of Austin, TX (zone 8b) 2016 Wish List: Dārk Pōrtuguese, Grānthāms Royāl, Lātarolla, Negrettā, Nōire de Bārbentāne, Rockāway Green, Viōlet Sepōr, Viōlette Dāuphine. Iranian figs are always welcome.

figpig_66

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Posts: 2,678

Posted 1431281657	Reply with quote #9

I just read about RKN. EASY FIX THEY SAID WAS SUGAR WATER. CANT HURT TO GIVE IT A TRY ON ONE OF THEM TO SEE IF IT HELPS IF YOU FIND SIGNS OF RKN __________________ RICHIE BONI HICKORY LOUISIANA ZONE 8B WARM HUMID WINRERS ARE VERY MILD LOW 20'S BUT WARMS RIGHT UP DURING THE DAY. SUMMER IS EXTREMELY HOT & HUMID 100 degrees 100% humidity fig tree grow like crazy but some split from rain & humidity Wish list. Col de dame blanc Col de rimada Lsu numbered figs

padsfan

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Posts: 205

Posted 1431283132	Reply with quote #10

Gophers? __________________ "Padres Fan" San Diego, California USA Sunset Zone 24- coastal So. Cal

Figsation

Registered:1372391943
Posts: 63

Posted 1431284528	Reply with quote #11

I will do a better job of checking for RKN. I have not yet seen evidence of it when I was digging out dead trees. But I will take another look by digging more around trees that are more recently sick. At first I thought it might me gophers. I have lost several of my small trees to gophers since the drought started. It seems that the Gophers don't have enough to eat because the weeds in the field are dying off in early spring. This only leaves my fig trees as a source of food. However, I see no direct evidence of gophers around some of the large trees that are sick. I wouldn't think that the gophers would make the large trees sick in one season. It takes more than one year to completely die. It effectively takes about 2-3 years before the tree is so sick that it looks like it has little chance of coming back. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

pino

Registered:1383190021
Posts: 2,118

Posted 1431299435	Reply with quote #12

Figsation, It looks like you have your work cut out to finding the source of your tree problems. I would still contact extension programs in similar climate/terrain area. The staff love solving problems and helping farmers. I am in Canada in tender fruit country (peaches, cherries ..) so have little in common with S.Cal. take my comments with a grain of salt; given that the fig trees are 15 years old and allowing for some tree decline since Fig trees optimum production is in the 10 year range is there a possibility of herbicide accumulation damage? In my area farmers are finding that some tree decline is attributed to the long term spraying of weed killers (glysophate, gramoxone) that hit the trunk and are taken in by the tree and over time kill the tree. __________________ Pino, zone 6, Niagara, JCJ Acres Wish; Peace on earth and more figs Italian 258, Galicia Negra, Luv, trade suggestions welcome.

Figsation

Registered:1372391943
Posts: 63

Posted 1431309606 · Edited	Reply with quote #13

Pino, I have never used herbicides or pesticides on my property. I have only put wood chips around the trees the last few years and some organic fertilizer every few years. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

Norhayati

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Posts: 341

Posted 1431321246	Reply with quote #14

Could it be termites? Two of my mulberry trees died due to termites early this year. Since they are from the same family, perhaps you should check out fot termites. __________________ Norhayati Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Wish list: Black Madeira

baust55

Registered:1240892043
Posts: 497

Posted 1431370685	Reply with quote #15

long ago i had a different property . my fruit trees were damaged buy over spray that drifted over from a farmers field .I talked to him and asked if he could spray in the future when the wind was blowing away from my orchard .. no problem after that. __________________ AUSTIN Read more mad non- scientist stuff ....check out my post on KITTY LITTER ! http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/kitty-litter-really-kitty-litter-7398708?pid=1287129765#post1287129765 "I grow fruit of the wine!" Zone 5 Fig trees I have : Hardy Chicago , Weeping Black , Ginoso , Excel , VEBT , and Genovese Nero . My Wish list: Panache, Florea,Desert King , RdB, Marseilles black vs, Vdb , Abruzzi, JH Adriatic , Nero 600 , MvsB, Malta Black,

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,719

Posted 1431370910 · Edited	Reply with quote #16

Where did the wood chip come from? Maybe they are somehow toxic or harboring some sort of borer? Sorry to hear this, I can't imagine losing a number of established trees. __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

Figsation

Registered:1372391943
Posts: 63

Posted 1431376879	Reply with quote #17

The woodchips came from tree trimming from tree companies. Some of it from my property. I have specified that the trimmings should have nothing that was treated with pesticides or chemicals. I will say again the strange thing here is that the fig trees are the sickest trees on my property. Other trees like Mangos, Longans, stone fruits etc. that have been treated the same way are doing OK. The sick fig trees are in some cases planted right next to them. It's so strange to me that the figs are showing the most problems. I have always found my figs to be the most care free trees. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

ohjustaguy

Registered:1294505489
Posts: 324

Posted 1431378980	Reply with quote #18

Quote: Originally Posted by Norhayati Could it be termites? Two of my mulberry trees died due to termites early this year. Since they are from the same family, perhaps you should check out fot termites. My understanding is termites only feed on dead wood, so they would have been the symptom in your cause, but not the cause. (Unless there are different types of termites in tropics that consume live wood) __________________ San Jose 9b http://www.kevinsedibleyard.com/

nkesh099

Registered:1267670012
Posts: 863

Posted 1431379059	Reply with quote #19

Could you post few photos of trees? Possobly some close up photos of main trunks.

Figsation

Registered:1372391943
Posts: 63

Posted 1431398425	Reply with quote #20

Here are some higher resolution photos of various trees. All of these trees were OK 2-3 years ago. The decline this year is alarming. It seems to be accelerating. Some of the branches on the trees near tops are completely dead. The small tree is interesting. It was completely fine 2 years ago. I noticed that it didn't leaf out as well last year. Now it can hardly complete pushing out the leaves and its not pushing out enough leaves. This is happening even though all of the branches are alive. At this rate if it follows the pattern, it will be effectively dead next year. Attached Images tree_1_trunk.JPG (216.24 KB, 63 views) tree_1_trunk.JPG (216.24 KB, 57 views) tree_2.JPG (139.23 KB, 62 views) tree_2_trunk.JPG (156.00 KB, 97 views) tree_3.JPG (138.88 KB, 53 views) tree_3_trunk.JPG (150.60 KB, 46 views) small_tree.JPG (156.71 KB, 50 views) __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

Figsation

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Posts: 63

Posted 1431398797	Reply with quote #21

I doubled up the trunk picture on tree one. Here is the missing picture. Attached Images tree_1.JPG (138.09 KB, 41 views) __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

Gardencrochet

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Posts: 205

Posted 1431399649 · Edited	Reply with quote #22

Hello Figsation, When you get a chance Google up - Decline or Dieback of Trees - Known as Twig Die Back. Based on your own observation you can probably identify which might be the issue in your particular case. Hope this helps! __________________ https://www.facebook.com/gardencrochet

Figsation

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Posts: 63

Posted 1431399769	Reply with quote #23

Another fig tree. How could these trees go so bad in 2-3 years. Last year this tree just looked a little sick. Attached Images IMG_1304_(1).JPG (595.09 KB, 29 views) __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

Cajun

Registered:1329745637
Posts: 204

Posted 1431399897	Reply with quote #24

I know this doesn't help one bit, but I have noticed that there is a fig across the street from where I work with the exact symptoms shown in your pictures...I hope this mystery disease doesn't start spreading around here. Sorry about your delima, I hope you can get things figured out.... __________________ Cal - Brusly, LA Zone 9a

tyro

Registered:1305930864
Posts: 230

Posted 1431400049	Reply with quote #25

Wow,really sad to see this.Is it possible you are irrigating too close to the tree? The reason I ask is because when I put my figs in I also installed landscape fabric under 6-8 inches of mulch.18 months later I found that all the biology was taking place above the fabric and I removed the fabric.No fun.At that time I found my feeder roots 12 feet from the tree.If you've had these in and have relied upon rain with supplemental water the last 2 years have been brutal.Maybe the feeder roots are out at 20-30 ft? __________________ Paul.Simi Valley,Ca.Zone 9a/Sunset 18

nkesh099

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Posts: 863

Posted 1431400638 · Edited	Reply with quote #26

Trees have been mulched too deeply around the trunk. Remove the mulch and inspect the trunk at the ground level. If you can see any griddling, possibly voles or gophers. Also, There is some bark chewing in one the photos. Something is doing the dirty work under the mulch!

figherder

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Posts: 237

Posted 1431400814	Reply with quote #27

How much water are you actualy giving them? What kind of fertilization are you doing? I know you have a serious drought there and this decline seems to have coincided with the drought. Those are beautiful trees and I imagine they require a lot of water. Even my 2 smiths in 3 gal containers use almost a gallon a day. Is that black stuff I see on the ground in the photos the drip irrigation? I'm sure you know that the root system is as large as the canopy. If the roots are only getting watered close to the trunk as it looks like then the rest of the roots get nothing. Effectively this is like root pruning. If root pruning you need to also remove canopy to keep it in balance. If this is the case with the dip irrigation then either increase the irrigation or prune the canopy back. I'm not an expert by any means but overall the trunks look pretty healthy. This would lead me to either a watering issue or a root issue. The drought could also cause some changes in soil PH.. If the PH is way out of whack the roots wont absorb nutrients properly. __________________ Jeff in zone 5b Wish list St rita,Vista,Sal's G,De la Reina, preto, Sport and pops purple red from Bellaclare, Planera Malta Black, Navid Unk Dark Greek,

figherder

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Posts: 237

Posted 1431401156	Reply with quote #28

Sorry for all the questions but are there lots of dead branches there too? If so I would prune all of them off. Maybe try this on one tree and see what happens. Prune back all dead branches. Water the heck out of it one day. The next day add some fertilizer higher on the nitrogen side. If possible add it to the water on the 2nd day and once again water the heck out of it. The reason for adding the nutes on the 2nd day is because if the roots are dry the fertilizer could burn the roots and cause even more damage. If what I am seeing is dead limbs then that may have already happened. For now I wopuld forget fruit production and concentrate on saving the trees and getting some leaves to grow. __________________ Jeff in zone 5b Wish list St rita,Vista,Sal's G,De la Reina, preto, Sport and pops purple red from Bellaclare, Planera Malta Black, Navid Unk Dark Greek,

Figsation

Registered:1372391943
Posts: 63

Posted 1431401872	Reply with quote #29

Cajun, that's interesting that you see another tree with this happening in socal. Tyro, that is really an interesting observation. The trees look as if they have no water. When I first put the trees in years ago, I put only two drippers per tree. 2-3 years ago I re did the drip system and increased the drippers to four and used a ring around each tree. I moved the drippers out to about 2/3 of the tree canopy. Before in many cases they were right next to the trunk. As you are aware for the last few years we have had drought. There is something about the quality of rain water vs city water. The normal rains in the past saturated the ground deeply and provided the entire ground with deep rain water. Maybe this helped to carry the trees through the spring and summer. My neighbor is having some trouble with his avocado trees even though he waters aggressively. However, There are a few things that lead me to believe that this is not just about water. I have always supplemented with with a hose every now and then. I never felt the drip was not enough. Sometimes, I even attached a rainbird. We all know how trees respond that are drought stressed when you put some water on them. They improve and come to life. I have never seen a substantial response to applying more water. Furthermore, the small trees that are sick like in the picture, have been watered by hand from the trunk all the way past the canopy. They don't have an extensive root system and they haven't responded to more water. Bear in mind that I also have other tropical trees that are doing just fine and they are getting the same amount of water. I have seen wild fig trees with no water that look a lot better than mine! It is possible though that the lack of good rain water lowered the resistance of the trees to stress and disease. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

tyro

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Posts: 230

Posted 1431402339 · Edited	Reply with quote #30

Take a look at picture #4 of post 21.See the massive roots.Is that your drip 18-24 inches off the trunk? Edit.See you've posted while I was typing.The only thing I could suggest is that you flood a couple of tree's and see if it makes a difference.Flood them outside of the canopy. __________________ Paul.Simi Valley,Ca.Zone 9a/Sunset 18

Figsation

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Posts: 63

Posted 1431403044	Reply with quote #31

Figherder, I have not fertilized my fig trees very much. Only once every few years with organic fertilizers. Last year I tried fertilizing a few of the sick trees and didn't see any results. Yes I know my drip system stinks and I don't water the trees broadly enough, but you should see my watering bills! As I said above, I try and use the hose when it gets hot to get and more broad distribution on the basins. I am going to try your watering, pruning and fertilizing program on a few of the smaller trees to see if I get any response. But in the past when I tried these things separately they didn't seem to help. PH is probably not an issue. My PH is fine and the lack of rain would make things more alkaline. Figs should be fine with this. If anything should suffer it would be my tropical and they are fine. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

Figsation

Registered:1372391943
Posts: 63

Posted 1431403264	Reply with quote #32

nkesh099, I don't think I have a bark damage issue from over mulching, but I will take a closer look. alanmercica, I don't see any pink color on the trees. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

Figsation

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Posts: 63

Posted 1431404102	Reply with quote #33

alanmerceca, I don't think it's pink. I think that's just an artifact of the photo. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

Figsation

Registered:1372391943
Posts: 63

Posted 1431404278	Reply with quote #34

tyro, I am going to try a good fertilizing/pruning and deep extensive watering on a few of the trees and see if I get any result, I will take before and after photos. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

Figsation

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Posts: 63

Posted 1431405386	Reply with quote #35

alanmercia, the leaves don't look like steamed spinach. They just look dry and underdeveloped. I have always felt that the trees act as if the roots are damaged and that the trees just can't leaf out because they can't get enough water and nutrition from the roots. This is made much worse because the bark is getting burned from the lack of leaves and as the bark is burned the branches can't transport fluids up under the damaged bark. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

tyro

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Posts: 230

Posted 1431408104	Reply with quote #36

Do a couple with only water,you're on clay and heavily mulched.Do another couple with water and very light fertilizer if you must.The tree's are stressed. Looking forward to your photo's. Cheers, Paul __________________ Paul.Simi Valley,Ca.Zone 9a/Sunset 18

jdsfrance

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Posts: 2,591

Posted 1431426307 · Edited	Reply with quote #37

Hi, Your trees are lacking water for me. Don't fertilize. Just water them. The straw under yours trees shouldn't be dry. IMO, if those trees were watered as required, you should have green grass near the trunks. Even here, I water 10 Liters (2 or 3 gallons ) each tree and my trees are smaller . For your big trees 3 times that would probably do the job and in a hot climate, it would be done twice a day once in the morning and once in the evening ... The wild fig trees might sit on an underground water vein - thus they look better ... Now if you are on water restrictions, you want smaller trees. So I would airlayer some branches and put them in a half shaded position. Do you have pets, cattle ? Try and install the new trees near the barns for humidity and freshness purposes . Near your house could help as well ... Good luck ! __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

Figsation

Registered:1372391943
Posts: 63

Posted 1431440591	Reply with quote #38

jdfrance, That is not straw much around the trees. It is dead weeds that dried up. It is true that things are very dry here and that the trees could use more water. However, as I said previously, I have hand watered some of the trees and not seen any improvement in the health of the trees that got extra water. Also, While this year we didn't get much rain, never the less the soil had some water saturation in it in March and Early April from the winter rain. This is when the trees were supposed to leaf out. But they didn't. There was no leaf drop. The leaves just didn't come out as they should in early spring. Also, I have many tropical trees planted next to the fig trees. These trees use lots of water. In most cases they are fine. In my stone fruits only some of the apple trees look like the fig trees otherwise they look normal. If this was only from a lack of water then my Mango and Longan trees would be dead!! They need lots of water. They are interplanted with the fig trees. They are getting the same amount of water. They are on the same drip system. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

cis4elk

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Posts: 1,719

Posted 1431453294 · Edited	Reply with quote #39

I agree with your observation that it appears that the water isn't getting from the roots to the leaves. I also noticed what jds mentioned about the minute amount of any green grass under the fig trees. It would seem that there should be at least some green grass under the trees. If you are sure that nothing has been girdling the trees, here is what I would do. 1- Do a white wash on those trunks and surviving scaffold branches! You need to intervene and mediate some loss from the sun. 2- They say fig roots are shallow, and even though figs can grow in desert-like climates, those trees established root systems for that climate. Likely over a VERY long time with many years of slow to little growth at all. Your trees had the good life when they were getting established, now they are getting hit hard and their shallow root system is drying up and dying more and more each year. You need mulch and a lot of it. Go thick and go wide, I'm sure you have done this but look for a tree pruning company to get some chip from, or rent a wood chipper and start clearing some brush. That's a lot of work, but were talking drastic measures here. I'm sure the low quality municipal water is only adding to the problem, allowing salts of all sorts to accumulate in the root zone but there isn't much you can do about that. I can only guess that your other fruit trees have deeper root systems and maybe a higher tolerance to what is accumulating in your soil. 3- Obviously, soak it down, but you need that layer of mulch to slow down and retain some moisture. Both from evaporation and from just running through the parched soil and filtering down to the aquifer. __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

greenfig

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Posts: 3,182

Posted 1431462745	Reply with quote #40

I am 100% with Calvin. Your trees' life was too easy, it is time for a change. They are adapting in their own way since it is hard to support those large canopies without a proper water supply. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

Figsation

Registered:1372391943
Posts: 63

Posted 1431484876	Reply with quote #41

Calvin, Good points. For the last two years my water company has switched from lake water to well water. The well water is very Hard and has higher TDS. While at the same time rain water has been limited, so I have had to use more of the high salt and mineral water. This has probably added to the stress on the trees. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

Figsation

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Posts: 63

Posted 1432427698 · Edited	Reply with quote #42

Update: Thanks to everyone for all of the help here. After considering the info here, talking to some experts and spending more time in the orchard I have the following theory: The trees started to suffer a few years ago as the drought progressed, I changed the drip system and mulched the trees. The reason this may be occurring is because the rains used to soak the ground prior to spring before the trees leafed out. For the last two years rains were not adequate to saturate the ground going into spring. When I changed the drip pattern, the trees were used to getting water in the late spring and summer in a certain spot and so the roots developed that way. A different pattern added to the drought stress. The mulch while a good idea, actually reduced the water the trees were getting because I didn't water with a hose long enough to penetrate the mulch. The drought stress and the lack of leaves caused the bark on the trunks and branches of some of the trees to split . To the extent there is RKN or other pathogens the trees are stressed and can't handle it. So in summary the normal weather pattern covered up my sins in the past, but the drought tipped the trees over the edge and magnified the problems. Edit: The other two factors are that the gophers have been drawn to the fig tree roots because there is less to eat in the fields. I also let the weeds and Bermuda grass grow under the trees which competes for the little water that there is. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

tyro

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Posts: 230

Posted 1432441651	Reply with quote #43

Hi figsation, After you posted about this issue I got curious about what was going on with my figs in as I don't water them directly and this is the first year I haven't had mushrooms all over the mulch.I went out and exposed some root to take a look.My situation is different from yours in as the only water a 3 year old fig gets is pass through from mostly #15 pots (current media is 5.1.1.) which reside in the pathways.The pathways have been heavily mulched for the last 6 years,probably 6 inches of straw and wood chips per year.Here's what I found. It appears these first feeder root's are traveling at about 4",right about where the mulch turns into aggregate with the clay. Sorry for the dup,haven't figured out how to remove it without starting over.Another look from a different area.Smaller feeder root but at same depth.The aggregate runs another inch and a half and I'm back into native clay.It's dry down there. Distance from trunk. Closeup. I haven't measured how much water it takes to get through the mulch but I suspect 2 inches.In as the fungal presence has been depleted I suspect the mycorrihiza presence has been depleted as well. I'll probably go out and apply 3 inches next week. __________________ Paul.Simi Valley,Ca.Zone 9a/Sunset 18

Figsation

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Posts: 63

Posted 1432481872	Reply with quote #44

Tyro, That is very interesting. It seems to confirm what I am experiencing. I wonder if there are more feeder roots below the 4 inches and how deep they go. If you would have done this experiment at this time of year and before the drought started, I suspect that the soil would have been moist. I was not as scientific as you, but now I am using a probe to determine water depth. Bear in mind that I used to use drip for a few hours each week and use a hose for about 5 min per tree about once per month. The water from the drip was just going deep and not spreading across the surface. I now see that the water from the hose wasn't even enough to penetrate the mulch. I also did not apply the water far enough out from the tree trunk. Using my probe I can tell how deep the water goes. My soil is bone dry under the mulch. It is taking a good 6-8 hours of watering with a sprinkler just to get water saturation down to 6-12 inches in my soil!!! When it rained enough, it covered my sins and mistakes, but now the soil has no reserve water. What I would really like to know from you and the experts here is how deep do the primary feeder fig tree roots go. How deeply do I have to saturate the soil to cover these roots? Tyro, how tall is that 3 year old tree that has feeder roots 10 ft from the trunk? Knowing what I know now I would never use drip irrigation to water fig trees in a drought. It just doesn't cover the surface roots properly. I would use sprinklers and water a long time. I couldn't figure out why some of my other trees that are tropical are doing OK but the figs are not doing OK. The answer might be that the fig trees have shallow and more broad surface roots. The other fruit trees can still get the deep water from the drip in their tap root and deeper roots. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

tyro

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Posts: 230

Posted 1432491258	Reply with quote #45

Hi, <how deep do the primary feeder fig tree roots go?> From just under the soil to 24" deep.Most of the deeper roots are anchors. <How deeply do I have to saturate the soil to cover these roots?> I suppose that depends on your water deficit.In my particular case I'd like to see moisture 4 inches below where the aggregate starts, so that would be 8 inches from the surface.In all likelihood the footprint that my pots occupy soil moisture is probably at 24 inches. <how tall is that 3 year old tree that has feeder roots 10 ft from the trunk?> Actually it's now in fifth leaf,but the roots were already out there at 3rd leaf. Everything is heavily pruned here,BYOC style so nothing gets over 8 foot. <Knowing what I know now I would never use drip irrigation to water fig trees in a drought.> I use soaker hose around my more traditionally spaced plantings.For the next couple of days I'll allow them to slow drip this BYOC style area.Last billing cycle before the water police show up,I'd like to start with a soil moisture surplus. Cheer's __________________ Paul.Simi Valley,Ca.Zone 9a/Sunset 18

Figsation

Registered:1372391943
Posts: 63

Posted 1432494248	Reply with quote #46

Tyro, Thanks for the great info. That looks like a nice healthy collection of trees that you have there. I like it. <I use soaker hose around my more traditionally spaced plantings.For the next couple of days I'll allow them to slow drip this BYOC style area> Brilliant! I have been using sprinklers. Soaker hose would save water and work even better. I am going to give that a try and make a coil around the tree. __________________ Figsation Coastal California Zone 10a

AltadenaMara

Registered:1422990132
Posts: 375

Posted 1432564734 · Edited	Reply with quote #47

Please contact an ag agent who can put you in touch with someone from one of the local colleges who will come out and do testing on the roots and take soil samples. We can speculate all we want on line, but you need someone to come there personally and get dirty. We are very fortunate in SoCal to have ag colleges that love to come out and fix problems like you're having. I was having a similar problem with rose bush/tree die back and death here in Altadena. It would hit and kill some bushes/trees, leave others right next to them alone and thriving. I got help- I forget the chain of referrals I went through. A nice prof from Cal Poly Pomona came out, (he said he commuted from Pasadena), took root and soil samples, and told me I had oak root rot on part of my property from past oak trees and a present oak tree. It's something you can live with, but also something you have to deal with. Best of luck with it. It's bewildering and depressing to see you favorite trees decline and die like that, in spite of and even because of your best efforts to save them. __________________ Mara Southern California Zone 1990= 9b 2012= 10a 2020=?

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