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Why Self Irrigating Containers?

Frank what an amazing job! Thanks for sharing,I will start preparing for next season pronto! I was going through your postings earlier but you just put it all together ! Thanks again!

Ok, question. 

Where I live in Colorado is a high planes desert. We have more than 300 days a year of sunshine, very little rain and almost no humidity.  I have a Hardy Chicago and Sweet George that live in 15 gallon green nursery pots. My peak summer temperatures range from high 80's to low 100's, humidity rarely exceeds 10%, the high altitude and clean air make the sun here very intense. My trees are in full sun from dawn to dusk, no shade other that the occasional cloud passing by. Last factor is wind, there is almost always at least a breeze to light wind, then intermittent high winds like everyone has. 

So.... it's hot, dry, windy and the sun is intense. 

Why do I only need to water these figs once every two, sometimes three weeks. I only water if I see a slight wilt in the leaves and that is the time frame. 

Also, no mulch in the pots, the soil is a from a local sand and gravel company, they call it premium compost mix.   The soil is two years old, I have never fertilized either tree, never used lime. The soil here is naturally alkaline. 

The trees both nearly trippeled their size this past season even after being destroyed and broken twice by quarter size hail. 

Thoughts? 

Scott either You re very lucky or someone secretly waters your figs when you're not watching lol!
How is the dew point at night? Maybe they get just enough moisture through their leaves at night? Just a thought being in such high elevation and all! Great mystery though,for potted trees!

Wow, I wouldn't change a thing.  I don't have an answer for you, but your results are impressive.  For you to only water your trees that little, I can only attribute that to the potting mix and altitude.  Quite amazing.

Chris and Frank,

We usually only see dew in spring and fall, it very rare in the summer. Definitely no one watering them. It has amazed me for the last two years hearing how much everyone waters while I don't.  And I guess the thing that has surprised me most is that a good deal of those people are in humid areas with rain. 

No idea if the generic soil or altitude are doing anything, maybe these varieties like it hot and dry. 

Maybe one day we figure it out.   I think this coming season I will do an experiment with some of the unkown Carini cutting I got from you Frank.   One potted up normal and one in my gutter garden.   Compare the differences in growth, health, vigor and production verus flavor the following year assuming they fruit then. I think I will also put two in ground, one with minimal water and the other on irrigation. Provide them with heavy winter protection to ensure their survival then compare all the methods. 

Will be interesting to see

Quote:
Originally Posted by COGardener
I think this coming season I will do an experiment with some of the unkown Carini cutting I got from you Frank.   One potted up normal and one in my gutter garden.   Compare the differences in growth, health, vigor and production verus flavor the following year assuming they fruit then. I think I will also put two in ground, one with minimal water and the other on irrigation. Provide them with heavy winter protection to ensure their survival then compare all the methods. 

Will be interesting to see


That would be great.  I'm looking forward to it!

I concur, I'm looking forward to it as well.  

Is it spring yet?

Hi COgardener,
Definitively something local and specific to your weather.

Here, I have figtrees in 80 liters trashcans buried in the ground with bottom removed - so they should be able to wick moisture from the dirt under - at least I had high expectations for that.
In Summer, we usually hit 40°C/100°F in the day and 24°C/75°F in the night for ten days in a row.
At that rate, the figtrees that are full sun loose half of their leaves if not watered during two weeks - That's my typical summer holidays duration.
That happened to me the last 2 years - so I'm sure of that.
In those pots, the dirt is a mix of local clay and dark potting soil from nurseries - so those should hold moisture for some time.
This year I had less problems but still got one tree totally stunted by the lack of water.

My season is sort of short - so I water and fertilize to speed up the figtrees .
If you have good results without watering, then you should do a test with one pot watered, and you should see the difference especially in fruit production.

Guys, I can only give you information of my results.  If I may, let me add a bit more information.  When you have an idea about switching to self-watering pots please consider this:

1.  The final size of that tree's container
2.  The thickness of that container
3.  The movement of that container with a tree inside
4.  Drainage/overflow.

Here is why!

Coop and Pete hit the nail on the head with their comments so please consider them.  Some of us don't have the luxury to drive and visit Bill.  I've email and talked to Bill on the phone several time with questions.  He's been a wealth of knowledge to me!  Here is what I've learned growing figs over year in SWPs.  

 Consider or think about your goal switching to this method!  

My goal was to reduce touching the roots of my trees over time.  My second goal was making sure my trees got enough water just to stay moist, not wet!  My third goal was to find a large enough pot THAT WOULD LAST AT LEAST 15+ years.  Why consider a pot’s age?  Because if you take those cheap 6 or 7 dollar colorful plastic tubs from Lowes or HD with the rope for handles, they will only last you 2 years or less!  When you add 3 or 5 gallons of water in one of those tubs, plus dirt, plus the tree and plus the weather, the pot will complete fall apart in no time.  I used those container 7yrs ago.  Every one cracked and just fell apart in less than 24 mos!  You waste time and money once again playing around with those pots.  So, don’t go the cheap route.  Trust me.

 Consider how you will repot and move your tree!

A fig tree grows excellent in SWP for 3 to 4 years.  Now, when the time comes, you have to repot the tree.  Plan ahead.   In other words, don’t build a large boat in your garage and start thinking about how to get it out after you finish it!  You have to consider how you plan on moving the tree before you repot it.  Bill created an excellent tool for moving his trees around.  I like his dolly!  I have all the tools to make his tree lift but I’m not sure it will work with my 27g containers.  I may end up buying a huge plant dolly for time sake.

 Consider container life!

I use 4 types of pots; Bill’s pots, half 55g plastic barrels, Big Lots fluted pots (I got them years ago when they were cheap, today they’re 14 bucks a pop), and Walmart SWP.  The Walmart pots are great but they are not that deep and are very thin.   But it does a good job until the tree is fully grown.  And mosquitos like to lay their eggs in them due to the bottom hole opening.  So, if you have a lot of trees like me, you could have a mosquito problem unless you use dunks and I do.  The 55g food grade barrels last longer than 20 years and they are larger than Bill’s pots.

 

Consider container size!

When I say size, I’m talking depth and circumference.  Why?  B/c you have to consider room in the bottom of a container for the water reservoir which is about 3 to 4 inches.  My trees have to have at least 16 inches of depth or more.  Those plastic whiskey barrel looking pots at Lowes look great.  But in my honest opinion, they are not deep enough.  My Big Lot pots work fine but the bottom is not sealed.  Since I already have them, I found a way to seal them and my trees grow well in them.  You should see my LSU Black in one of these pots!  The base of the tree is huge!

I tried using thick plastic to cover up the top of my trees like Bill does.  I stopped doing that.  Why?  In my opinion, it’s just too much maintenance.   Today, I just lay a thick weed guard and burlap on top and add mini pine bark nuggets.  It works well of me and it look better.  When it rains, I don’t water them.  I let mother nature do her thing!  If the tree gets too much water, it will come out of  overflow spout.  And make sure you pot your tree 3 inches above the rim of the pot!  Otherwise you will wish you did months later when the tree completely settles.

Hope my tips help someone and save you time and money!

Priceless information, Dennis.  Thanks so much for elaborating.

Thank-you Dennis...good stuff, and timely for my situation. I'm making sips at the moment, but I'll have to plan on bigger later as I've already gathered my containers. My trees are young (and small), so maybe I can successfully use what I have for now and replace with bigger pots a few at a time each season. Maybe I can keep from breaking the bank that way too, dang containers are pricey. 

Regards,
bill

Dennis,

That does answer a lot of questions, thank you.  I'm already amending some of my plans.

Question, Do you have any large figs that are not in SIP's?  I was thinking about using the half 55 gallon drums as regular pots with drainage holes cut in the bottom.

Thank you

Scott

Scott, yes I do but they are going to be transferred to SIPs over the next 2 years.  I'm only one person and I'm doing all the work myself.  I tried getting my son to help but he does more damage than assisting.  Some have to be repotted this Spring and as soon as I finish with 50, I will be prepping 50 more.  Those in SIP leaf out faster and are healthier.

Interesting.  Ok.

I'm going to start the above mentioned experiment come this spring, run it for two or three years and then see what the figs like and what works best for me.

Before I go searching, is there a thread that details the construction of the half food grade 55 gallon drum SIP?

Thank you

Craig's List is your best place to start.  I get mine for 10 bucks a pop.  You can't beat 5 dollars for a 27g container!  Just follow Bill's method or Pete's method using 4" drainage hose.  Both work very well.  Just make sure to add a drainage hole.  I just small gauge PVC with a elbow using a 3/4" grooved gromment.  Use dish soap to get the pvc on there.  You gotta have strong hands to do this.

I already have a couple drums to get started with.  And your right, I see them on Craig's list all the time for an average of $10.00 ea.  And yes, for 27 gallon pot that is a scream'n deal at $5.00 each.

Thank you for the advice Dennis.

Scott

Dennis ,thank You soooo much for investing all this valuable time to educate us all! I was hoping someone was going to comment on the laundry basket !! Lol awesome advice and info ,already started looking for the appropriate pots! Thanks again for saving us time ,money and headaches with Your experience!

So, if the bottom of the inside bucket has several holes drilled in it to become an 'air platform', is there an amount of distance needed between the platform and the drain hole, or does it matter if the drain hole is drilled just below the platform, providing almost no air space? I watched several youtube videos on making 5gal. bucket sips, but no one seemed to address it while drilling their holes.

Regards and thanks,
bill

I would give at least 1/2" of air space in between soil and water.

I don't iunderstand what happens when your tree "settles" after months if you forget about the 3 Inch above the rim...could one explain.

And second thing...Does anyone has some golden rule for the
RATIO waterreservoir-height TO soil-height?      

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnificco
I don't iunderstand what happens when your tree "settles" after months if you forget about the 3 Inch above the rim...could one explain.


This only applies if you have a covered pot.  The cover will allow rainwater to run off the plastic when a mound is created, rather than pool right back into the pot.

A little off topic, but attached are some links to forum discussion with some basic SIP construction and designs. The first group of links are to the Original Commercially available SIPs for gardening... The EarthBox. They have an extensive website with lots of info including the potting mixes that have been approved/tested in their SIPs. Their linked instruction PDF and videos explain the step by step setup procedures. The 5 gallon buckets and the 18 gallon totes were originally called EB Clones before the company initiated law suits...

The Commercial SIP that started it all...
http://earthbox.com/
http://earthbox.com/videos
http://earthbox.com/earthbox-pdf/EB-WEB-INSTRUCTIONS_NEW-2.pdf
http://earthbox.com/approved-for-earthbox

My personal 30 gallon barrels SIP build...
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1281136821&postcount=25

Links to SIP Discussions with additional Forum links...
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/55-gallon-drum-sip-containers-5732589
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/selfwatering-containers-are-giving-me-outstanding-results-sip-swc-7034186
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1280888714&postcount=7
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1280740601&postcount=8


5 gallon 2 bucket SIPs with figs...

How often do you have to add water to the reservoir? For example in Dennis or Pete's 25-30 gallon 1/2 barrel pot, with a tree that is 4 yrs or more old. Just wondering if a person would be able to leave town for a week and come back to happy trees.  And if the water in the reservoir gets real low(lets say down to 10% of original volume), does the plant stress from high TDS? I know they aren't supposed to leach nutrients to the reservoir, but I have a hard time believing it doesn't occur; especially if you are down to an inch of water or less.

Scott, I water my trees once a day in the heat of it here. Actually I water them at night after things cool down, with my headlamp on. Do you get your mix from Santa Fe Sand and Gravel?  I wonder if the higher amount of fine particle creates a perched water table that works to your advantage in our climate. Seeing we don't get much for regular rain, the perched water acts as a reservoir for a day maybe two at the most before the tree draws enough water from the soil to dry it out between waterings. The roots don't stay saturated long enough to rot. States with regular rainfall, the roots never get a chance to dry out.  I could be wrong, it's just a thought.

Mike, that is very clever information for extending reservoir size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnificco
And second thing...Does anyone has some golden rule for the 
RATIO waterreservoir-height TO soil-height?


I've thought about similar questions.  But I don't think that's the ratio that you should look for a rule of thumb about.  

If you're concerned about how high (or deep) you can make the soil and still have sufficient wicking capability, then I think it's more important to pay attention to things like the wicking capacity of the wicking chamber (or other wicking technique), and compare that to the soil volume.  The waterreservoir-height is not the critical factor here.  If you use a wicking chamber (versus some other kind of wick), then you could pose this as a more meaningful question by considering a horizontal plane (a "slice" parallel to the ground), and think about the ratio of (percent of surface area in wicking chambers) to (soil height).  Or maybe some similar ratio such as <diameter of the wicking chambers> to <soil depth>.  Maybe that sounds complicated, but the point is just that as you increase soil depth, then you need to also increase diameter of the wicking chambers (or the area devoted to wicking chambers within a "slice").  For a soil depth of about 14 - 16 inches, I used 4" diameter wicking chambers that collectively cover about 20-25% of the area of the "slice" surface.  It seemed to work pretty well.  This is not any rule that I read... just what I guesstimated, and it seemed to work out quite well.

But the depth of the reservoir (what you called waterreservoir-height)... I think that's not so critical for this question of successful wicking.  It is still an important consideration, as that is one of the primary variables that will determine how often you need to add water to the reservoir.  A deeper reservoir needs refilling less frequently than a shallow one.  I started with 3.5 inch depth in the ones I described above, but others that I made later I used 6 inch depth, specifically to increase the length of time before refilling would be required.  But although that depth is important because it affects the time between refills, it doesn't have very much effect on effectiveness of the wicking... cross-sectional percentage matters more for that.  Both the 3.5 inch depth and the 6 inch depth were very similarly effective in wicking.

To see that the ratio of reservoir_depth to soil_depth isn't the right ratio to look for a rule of thumb, just consider two otherwise identical SIPs (same soil depth and same reservoir depth), one with a tiny wicking chamber representing just 1% of the cross-sectional area, and another with a nice large wicking chamber representing 25% of the cross-sectional area.  Which one would be more effective at wicking?

To summarize:  Rather than the ratio you asked about, I think instead you should think about percentage of cross-sectional area devoted to wicking.  The greater the soil depth, the higher percentage of cross-sectional area is needed for the wicking chamber(s).

OK, I hope these thoughts help.  I've got no rule of thumb for this, just applied some common sense, guesstimated, and checked the result.  Maybe I overdid it on the wicking capacity, but better too much capacity than too little.

Mike

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