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Yellowing leaves on RdB

I'm sure others in eastern U.S. can relate to my issue.  My Ronde de Bordeaux looked great all season until about a week ago.  Since then I have noticed that a few of the leaves have started to yellow.  After they become fully yellow they fall off.  Also in some cases the tiny leaves (still green) at the growth tips have fallen off.  So far the figs haven't fallen off but I wouldn't be surprised if that occurred soon.  I am using a 5-1-1 mix with some garden lime included - it drains very well.  To that I added slow release fertilizer and an occasional watering with dilute Foliage Pro which is supposed to have micronutrients. 

Yes, the weather sux - we've gotten rain at least every other day for the past couple weeks the forecast looks like rain for the next 9 days!  Is this a normal response to wet, humid weather?  My Hardy Chicago is growing under the same conditions and so far looks fine - maybe it is more resistant to the weather conditions. Unfortunately, I don't have a way to protect this plant from the rain and still allow it to get decent sun.  My plan was to put in the ground next spring but now I am thinking about transplanting it this weekend.

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Steve...same problem here in central N.J(zone 6b)....not all varieties, but certain ones are starting to do the same thing...had trouble with a Col de Dame Noir earlier in the season bottom two leaves yellowed and eventually fell off, but has since recovered(I put it in the shade for about 2 weeks)...but now I see others following suit...way too much rain...even with good drainage, pots are saturated...hoping for the best...good luck with yours.

As posted in another thread never had good results with the 5.1.1 mix .

With all the rain this season (almost 30 total inches) plants are doing fine with exception some in homemade mix of humus/compost/peat/perlite the leaves are dropping some but still green and do pickup when weather subside for a few days.
Just my observations in our yard as there are so many variables across the lands that it should not be judged as the standard.

We need to make a sticky regarding nutrient deficiency or symptoms of yellow, curled, black n brown, spotted, etc leaves.  Something like this for example. We can just modify it to show under watering and over watering, root bound, etc

As a note what i have observed over the years fig plants starved of water start to yellow on upper part of plant, fig plants that start to get feet that stay wet start towards lower part and work its way up.
Don't ask how i observed this. lol

This might sound crazy but what's the surface and bottom root temperature?  The tree is getting overheated.  Low humidity, excessive water and high heat (and very hot water) can cause that.  I got 2 trees going through that now.  Those yellow leaves is not a bad thing.  It's just a cry for help.  New leaves will appear in a few days.  I would shade (meaning complete cool shade) the tree and give it some liquid root horemone and see what happens in a week.  I use Fertilome Root Stimulator.  It comes in a white bottle; 4 tablespoons per 1 gallon of water.  Good luck!

Thanks for all your comments.  The good thing from what I'm hearing is that this is reversible.  Dennis I think you are on to something with the heat - it could be a combination of water stress and heat stress.  This tree is close to the south face of a brick wall on the house which is going to radiate heat.  This is good for winter protection but not so good for fig varieties that are sensitive to a lot of heat/sun.  It is also in a black container which will absorb heat.  The Hardy Chicago is in a beige container. As many have observed, my VdB didn't like this warm, very sunny location very much (had droopy leaves in the afternoon) so I moved it to a different spot a few days ago.  Martin, it does seem that the lower leaves are tending to turn yellow faster than the upper leaves.  Anyway, I think I will move the RdB to a cooler spot, put a row cover skirt around the black container and see what happens. 

Eventually, I want to plant a couple trees in the ground in this location on the south side of my house against this brick wall.  This raises a larger question (maybe a topic for another thread) of what types of varieties besides VdB don't do so well in a strong sun/heat environment all day.  I will avoid planting these varieties in that location.  It would be a good location for heat-loving/long season varieties that take a lot heat/sun to ripen figs.  Hmm, I wonder if Figo Preto could survive the winters there?

Steve,
I'm sorry I can't relate, but I can empathize : )

I can't relate because my potted figs and in ground plants are one month ahead of where they were last year, due to the warmer than normal daytime temperatures and all the rain (we are forecasted for 2 inches over the next 24 hours).

Picture taken early today of fig trees in pots all planted in a modified 5-1-1 mix (+1, fullers earth, Oil Absorbent) in full sun on a 5 foot wide gravel path over grown with Hostas, Peppermint and Vetch.


I've posted on another current Topic about leaf Yellowing. The same answer applies here. Fertilizer, whether water soluble or time released will wash out of the mix if there is a lot of rain. The 5-1-1 is sterile for the most part with few nutrients. If the nutrients are not replaced, the plants will do poorly. The time release products are encapsulated and it takes time for the capsules to break down. So although you may have time release fertilizer in the mix, you may not have any released fertilizer. I use a balanced fertilizer with micronutrient and mycorrhizae (Espoma), In addition to weekly feedings of Miracle Grow.

Pete, I hadn't considered the fertilizer (Osmocote) to be a problem but I guess this gets to the issue of whether it is time release (not sure how that works) or water release.  I had assumed that more water would cause more fertilizer release but maybe you are correct.  This seems to be a case where organic fertilizer would be better.  I'll look into top dressing with some aged compost.

Hmm although read about folks vdb etc drooping and too much heat to root system having ill effects its not the case here as my plants sit in there  pots on landscape rocks and on cement patio in full sun and do fine no yellowing of leaves as that happens here in fall.
Its 89 out here now and sunny .
Some are in the terra cotta color plastic containers and others in black plastic containers.

Also use Miracle grow but sparingly this season 3 times total,  due to so much rain and there growing and doing just fine without it .
Today i was in yard  pinching the ends of branches on some.

Then again i dont use 5.1.1 mix.  ; )

Example on rocks
Ronde in Terra color plastic pot and Noire de Barbentane in Black Plastic.

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I think you're doing something right, Martin.  ;)

VdB.. check the root. if the root ball is too small, and not getting enough whatever from the soil to support the top, or if the roots are full and using all the water it will droop. 

i noticed this during the first yr when i had VdB in the 10 gal. for awhile while it was settling in, it used to droop. then i saw the roots coming out the bottom and it was more stabilized. then when it needed root pruning, the roots were so packed in the container, it was not getting deep watering. it start to droop again. 

to fix the problem i started using drip system. only time i get drooping is when the weather goes above 95 and sun is very intensive. then i have to water 2-3 times a day or put tray under the pot and fill it with water. 

Martin, maybe I need to do an internship in container culture at your house!  This is my first year with the 5-1-1 mix in large containers.  I guess I need to work how to get the fertilizer and nutrients right with the constant rain.

Pete, my VdB has looked a little raggedy all year but it hasn't shown any yellow leaves.  It shows a fair amount of FMV though and has kind of a rusty look to the green areas of the stems.  It looked pretty good last year in a 10 gallon container partially buried.  To get the container out I had to prune the roots off and then it immediately started drooping.  A couple weeks after that I bare-rooted it to get it into 5-1-1 mix and transferred to a 25 gallon container.  I would think that the rootball still has quite a bit of growing room in that container.  Anyway, it continued to look sad and then went into dormancy.  This spring it was the last fig to bud out after the weather warmed up but has put on some growth (and kept several brebas) even with the raggedy appearance.  My original goal was to try out several figs in containers, cull down the number and then put the best ones in the ground.  But I'm starting to feel like choosing some proven winners and put them in the ground now.  My in-ground KB (which came from you) looks great though, true to form, it has not shown any tiny main crop figs yet.

Pete S. - you said you were using 5-1-1 mix (+1, fuller earth).  What is the "fuller earth"?  Also in another thread you said you use Espoma garden tone.  I researched this on the internet a bit and Espoma makes another product (Espoma plant tone) that looks like it could be slightly more appropriate for figs.  Is there a specific reason you chose one over the other?  You said you fertilize every month - at what point during the growing season would you stop fertilizing using your regimen?  There's so many variations on fertilizer regimens that it gets overwhelming.  Thanks!

Steve


Steve,
My original mix was posted on another topic and it did use Plant-tone, but I purchase both, usually which ever is the freshest (furthest expiration date). Yes it has an expiration date, it has live dormant cultures. The current mix is with Garden-tone. The NPK numbers (plant-tone @ 5-3-3 and Garden-tone @ 3-4-4) are really not that relevant to me, because I am supplementing with dilute Miracle Grow (@ 1/3 full strength, which is a 3-1-2 ratio). At a full strength application of MG the tips of young leaves sometimes experience "fertilizer burn". The Espoma contributes micro-nutrients and mycorrhizae to the mix, in addition to other insoluble nutrients. The Dolemite Limestone adds Calcium and Magnesium, which are introduced over time as it breaks down (with the other insoluble nutrients) with all the microbial action in the soil from the fungal and bacterial cultures (mycorrhizae). Note that the ProMix BX and other expensive pre-mixed potting mixes have these same ingredients (Limestone and mycorrhizae).

Quote:
5 - parts Pine Bark Mulch
1 - part Peat Moss
1 - part Perlite
Plus - 1 cup Dolemite Limestone and 1 cup Espoma Plant-Tone per 5 gallon. Also Dolemite limestone is added to the top @ 1/2 cup per month

I have since modified that to a 5-1-1-1 mix. The added ingredient is 1 part Oil Absorbent (Fullers Earth) from Tractor Supply, similar to Oil Dry. The new mix drains better, is more aerated, hold more moisture but its also heavier.

It is only slightly heavier than the 5-1-1 mix. Also I settled on the Fullers earth because it doesn't break down as easily as others that I've tried. 

Fertilizing Schedule for Rooted Cuttings:
Weekly feedings of Miracle Grow General purpose @ 1/2 teaspoon / Gallon of water for cups and increasing to 1 tsp / Gallon for 1 gallon containers.
Monthly Feedings of Espoma-Tone @ 1 -2 tablespoons per 1 gallon container.


Fertilizing Schedule for 1-2 year old fig trees:
Weekly feedings of Miracle Grow General purpose @ 1 tablespoon / Gallon of water.
Monthly Feedings of Espoma-Tone @ 1/2 cup and 1/2 cup Dolemite Limestone per 5 gallon container.
Miracle Grow is stopped at the end of July to allow for "hardening off".

Fertilizing Schedule for 3 years and older:
Should be 1/2 or less than the requirements of younger plants, due to the already established scaffold branches.
I will be looking for 2-3 feet of growth at the fruiting branches yearly. I have not reached this stage as yet.

BTW Jarrett's diagram in post #4 is very informative. Its a simple tool for quick diagnosis.

Here's a picture I posted earlier of VDB in the 5-1-1-1 mix, and of the entire plant below.
[image]

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Just to throw my hat in, I love using a half cup of alfalfa pellets spread on top of a container. It provides several months of fertilizer and will form a mat that reduces weeds. The down side is that roots tend to grow up into the top of the container more, similar to using compost as a top dressing.

I had the same problem with mixes that had a high percentage of pine bark, especially last season where there was also lot's of rain. I used a little blue fertilizer to get them going again, the ones still in the PB mix are not having such a hard time this year, probably because the pine bark has broken down a bit. I like spraying with seaweed extract a couple times a month, and use liquid organics like Earth Juice, Buddha Grow, Bio-Grow about once a week. I tossed about a tablespoon of Fertrell 8-1-4 on them yesterday, because of all the rain i have not been able to give them the liquid.

Pete- I noticed an interesting thing about Promix this spring: The fungi is in a live form instead of spores. I saw "mold" growing in my newly potted cuttings and thought, there is no way that is mycorrhizal fungi, they need plant roots to germinate spores! Well, little did I know that the fungi can also be added live with root pieces that have been colonized. The process is very interesting to me and I wanted to try and "trap" some of these fungi in the process described here, but alas, I was too busy, maybe there is still time this year though.

p.s. I did not use alfalfa last year, so can't really say if it will be strong enough to work with fresh 5-1-1 mix. This year I am using 2-2-1-1, PB-compost-promix-NAPA#8822

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