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knutinh

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Posts: 22
Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Hello everyone. First post here.

I just got my first fig (Brown Turkey). Living in Norway, I have cold wet winters (typical minimum -20C) and cool wet summers compared to many of you I guess.
Jan mean temp: -4.3 C
July mean temp: 16.4 C
Year average: 5.7 C
Growth season: 188 days (daily avg >5C)
Summer : 133 days (daily avg >10C)

As a bonus, we have a rich supply of Iberian slugs (they eat anything).

But it would be nice to have some fresh figs just for the sport. So is it brown turkey (what garden centers sells here), Brunswick, Bornholm (precose de dalmatie?) or hardy chicago or afghanistan or ice crystal or ciccio nero or fico bianco?

For grapes, we seem to have had some success looking to north america and russia for hardy plants (rather than sunny south europe). So what part of the world should I look to for comparable climate? The northeast of US/Canada?

I have talked with US ediblelandscaping.com and Canadian http://www3.sympatico.ca I have also looked at German http://www.palmapalmetto.com Anyone with experience with any of these? Importing is going to be expensive, some paper work and time consuming (2017 season) so I am hoping to avoid poor choices.

Regards
Knut
ricky

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Dear Friend,

Your area is as cold as New York, you need cold hardy fig tree.

Your area is cool climate as Pacific north west at where I live, Summer is not very hot,   - Many Fig trees do need hot climate to sweeten/ripen figs, or you might waste your time without sweet figs.

Your area is weak sun as well, I means solar energy to ripen figs, only May/Jun/ July/ Aug, very short season.

Your area is quite wet in Summer, 14+ rainy day in a month  - Fig trees do not like wet weather, Some varieties figs do not like rain and rotten.

You may check with people in your area to find out what is best varieties of fig trees for your area.
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knutinh

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
>>you need cold hardy fig tree.
Agreed.

I'll add that the sun rise over the horizon 18 hours in june/july, 6 hours in late december. We have 763mm of precipitation, distributed among 166 rainy days (dryer winters than summers, september is wettest). The official statistics period is for 1961-1990. If one looks at 1991-present, temperatures seems to have risen by 1-2 degrees C. Global warming or statistical quirk, I guess.

The figs on offer here tends to be Brown Turkey. But then, our garden centers tends to sell whatever their Dutch suppliers have at hand, rather than what is suited for our climate (I see that a lot with Apricot and Grapes). To a lesser degree, I see Bornholm (AKA Precoce de Dalmatie? AKA Bornholm Diamond?) and Ficus Afghanistanica, Ficus 'Ice Crystal'. But talk about 'Hardy Chicago' makes it sound like a perfect hardy, good-tasting fig. Mysteriously, it seems to not be available here in Europe. Is it more of an "inland climate" fig? (surviving dry, cold winters, needing really hot/long summers)?

Locally, there are not that many fig-growers to consult that I know of. I don't know if that is because it is really hard, or because we simple do not have traditions for doing so (no large mediterranean groups of immigrants here). I know that some have been able to fruit Brown Turkey. I have read this article about growing figs in Sweden. It seems very relevant:
http://www.fruitiers-rares.info/articles57a62/article59-Fig-growing-in-Sweden-Ficus-carica.html

(In general) to combat the climate challenges over here, what would you recommend? I assume that putting lots of drainage around its feet (rather relying on active watering) in order to allow it to dry somewhat up periodically and during winter is a good thing. But does it dislike wet foliage? (should I plant it close to a wall such that it will not be hit by direct rain, should I encase it in white fiber cloth, or is a green house the only way?). Is it feasible to survive winter outside (first winter? second?) using winter fleece, covering the ground with mulch/isolation mats? Or should I keep it in a pot, move it (I have a cold garage, a 15 degree C cellar and an isolated cold-bench outside).

I do know that for grapes, it is recommended to chose a south-facing slope, to avoid planting at the bottom of the slope, to use black glassfibre cover of the soil (avoid weeds, get more heating from the sun, let through water/nutrients), plant against a brick wall/fence (preferred) or a white wooden house wall/fence. Many recommend putting large-ish rocks around the plants feet for heat retention. For many fruit bushes/trees, some kind of espalier/fan-training is recommended in order to maximize sunlight and avoiding damp foliage/branches.

I also have the option of planting at the cabin. There it is even more "coastal" (milder winters, more even summers, full sun, windy). Would have to combat grazing sheep, though :-)
Jan mean temp: -2.0 C 
July mean temp: 16.5 C 
Year average: 6.9 C 
Growth season: 180-200 days (daily avg >5C) 
Summer : 133 days (daily avg >10C)

regards
Knut
kkk2210

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
You need a heated greenhouse mate and you are sorted . 
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Maris

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 

Or try with unheated hoop house. One of the best varietis for you could be Michurinska-10. Very early and very productive fig tree. Will produce a main crop, should be ripen in hoop house. In my location gave my some figs last year. I planted it near west side wall. I am from Poland. My climate is so wird. On begining of april we had +27C and 2 weeks letter we had a little snow fall and light spring frost, but thanks wall my michurinska is ok, but I think that you should start growing your figs in hoop house and in pot to can easly move out, if temp inside hoop hosue will be too high.

Bornholm diamond could be ok, in hoop house you can protect your fig tree from spring frost.

Here in Poland we speak about summer when daily avg is >15C

Regards from Poland ;)
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Lanckorona, Poland

Elevation 455 m (1493 ft) (49° 49')

USDA 6

Wish list: My area in USDA ZONE 9 :D

My varieties: Panache, Peretta, Napolitana, Michurinska-10 and probably Brown Turkey.
knutinh

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Thank you. Would that be Florea (Michurinska-10)?
http://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-home/16881-early-ripening-fig-varieties
http://drbelljuiceplus.com/2015/02/04/three-cold-tolerant-fig-varieties-to-grow-in-the-northeast/

What about 'LSU O'Rourke', 'Nordland Bergfeige', 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maris

Here in Poland we speak about summer when daily avg is >15C

Regards from Poland ;)


Thanks for rubbing it in :-)

mnd.nob.png 
We have had some days in may that are extraordinary, though. 24C at this time of year is pure luxury (I guess that Poland has been the same lately?)

cheers
-k
Maris

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 

I don't know, the second site is telling that " Florea figs are known for being large and juicy" my figs (michurinska-10, florea?) were juicy, but small, not large.
I've never heard bout this figs ('LSU O'Rourke', 'Nordland Bergfeige') so I cannot help

Most Poland had temp above avg, only my south side part unfortunately had temps under avg. :(

 

 

[bbbbbbbbbb] 

 

But you can check in my other's posts, that figs fruit survived :)
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Lanckorona, Poland

Elevation 455 m (1493 ft) (49° 49')

USDA 6

Wish list: My area in USDA ZONE 9 :D

My varieties: Panache, Peretta, Napolitana, Michurinska-10 and probably Brown Turkey.
knutinh

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Posts: 22
Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Report from a Danish nursery (in Danish) that sourced 30 different species of Figs possibly suited for the Danish climate from nurseries, associations and private collectors over a 10 year period (2005-2015). They looked for figs that would fruit without the fig wasp, being winter hardy and setting fruit up north.

About 50% of the plants were indistinguishable from Brown Turkey, and they continued trials on the 14 unique ones. They seem to claim that the "Danish" fig (Bornholm) is the same as Brown Turkey, this comes as a surprise to me. They did trials in a 200m^2 plastic tunnel and in the open. 

Conclusion:
Nearly only Brown Turkey (and its clones) gives good results in the open. Petrovaca, Hardy Chicago and White Marseilles should be tried in sheltered spots where they mature nicely and at about the same time as Brown Turkey. In a greenhouse, you have more possibilities, even for main-crop oriented ones.

http://www.westergaards.dk/node/182

From their site:
'Brown Turkey' is the most used fig in cool climates. It is a part of the complex called "Bornholm figs". 95% of the free-range figs fruiting in Denmark is thought to be Brown Turkey.

http://www.westergaards.dk/figen/brown%20tyrkey

'Précoce de Dalmatie' is very similar to Brown Turkey, and is also a part of the "Bornholm fig" complex. Good for free range.

http://www.westergaards.dk/figen/precose%20de%20dalmatie
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Hello Knut

Welcome to the forum.
I do have a lot of appreciation of what you fellows do to ripen figs in your latitudes and climates
You must love figs very much!
IMO, a well designed GH seems to be part of the answer to the problem

Not yet seen but Iceland ( a very special case given its geothermal potential) could well grow figs.
They seem to be growing good bananas already !!

Good luck
Francisco
Portugal
knutinh

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lampo
Hello Knut

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks.
Quote:

I do have a lot of appreciation of what you fellows do to ripen figs in your latitudes and climates
You must love figs very much!

Or some sort of masochism :-)

Truth be told, I have never tasted "fresh" fig. I am told that the difference between fresh fig and "picked unripe, then transported across the world" is somewhat like fresh vs unfresh Strawberry or Tomato. That makes me curious.

We do have specialties of our own, though. The feeling of finding ripe "mountain gold" (cloudberry) is really special. And in that case, our climate actually works for us, not against us.
[6b701856ecc56322d0d577a5fb23a5ee-1] 

Quote:

IMO, a well designed GH seems to be part of the answer to the problem

I am hoping to find some hardy figs that will survive in a pot freeland if I protect it in winter. Eventually, I might add GH types to mix with my tomatoes and cucumbers.

-k
Paul

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Posts: 61
Posted Reply with quote  #11 
In my Eye the best Fig for cold Klimate are the Variety from Afghanistan.
Ficus Carica Kultur Fig from Afghanistan.

Afghanischer Kulturfeigensaemlingklein.jpg 

Very good also the Wild Fig from North Afghanistan - Tadschikisch wild Fig.

AghanistanGigantklein.jpg 

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MichaelL

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Posts: 3
Posted Reply with quote  #12 
You may consider the danish fig variety: Roesnaes
It has been newly released for sale.
It belongs to the Brown Turkey complex like Bornholm, but should be more cold hardy,
and has been tested for the last 30 years at the peninsula Roesnaes (Zone 7).
The Roesnaes fig was collected in the mountains of former Yugoslavia probably about
fifty years ago.
I cannot speak of own experience. I only have a small plant in a pot.
It looks very good with many brebas.

http://www.lundhede.com/ficus-carica-roesnaes-salgshoejde-30-50-cm-figen-gc/ 

Michael
Padborg, Denmark
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Knut,

You right on your comparisons on taste/flavors of most of the current commercial varieties cultivated along the Med  and trucked all the way up to northern countries.. There is nothing like a ripe fresh fig  or breba, picked from the tree and immediately  eaten.

Unfortunately our figs are not much cold hardy..

That is a very nice  berry you show on your picture.. It has airs of being a delicious fruit
PM sent

Francisco
Portugal
Tadsamson

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Posts: 26
Posted Reply with quote  #14 
I've been growing figs in Eastern Canada for a few years now. You will probably have better luck with Précoce de Dalmatie (Bornholm) or Desert king which gives a huge amount of tasty breba crop.

Just be prepared to protect them during winter... they don't like it too wet.
woodenman

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Posts: 27
Posted Reply with quote  #15 
A bit further south and not nearly as cold in London.

I'm not sure how cold figs can go without needing burying/other protection, but the Canadians/inland US can probably help with that. You will, however, need a fig that can produce a decent breba crop as you're not going to get a main crop without a (probably heated) greenhouse. Relying on breba also means that you need to make sure you don't get dieback of the top of the tree - something that inland south/central US doesn't tend to need to worry about so much. If you've got somewhere you can store them overwinter then you'll probably get best results growing in pots and overwintering in a garage or similar (search for other references to 'fig shuffle' here), though if you're having issues ripening then fan-training may help you somewhat.

In my garden at the moment I'm growing Brunswick, Desert King, Excel in-ground and VdB and a Syrian unknown in pots. Brunswick does really well trained against a fence as a fan, the Excel produced dry figs last year (no idea why, but it's still young) and the others are too young to know how successful they are, though I got Syria unk from another Londoner so I know it can produce here (and it's kicking out loads of breba this year).

A cheaper method of import if you have some patience is to get your BT from the local stores and then graft on cuttings from other EU members. Assuming you share EU rules regarding plant matter, you should be able to get the materials without customs problems and it'll be a lot cheaper than shipping a tree. Again, there are posts here describing how other people have done this.


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knutinh

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
So do you think that the success of hardy chicago is due to having a main crop on same-year growth (thus giving some fruit despite dying down to the ground in winter)? And that this works if you have a really hot and long summer (inland northern US, but not scandinavia). As HC comes from mt Edna (?) one would think that european nurseries had similar species that never travelled across the pond.

Unfortunately, Norwegian authorities consider cuttings the same way as bare root plants. You need a phyto sanitary certificate when bringing plants across our borders or run the risk of being indicted. I recently visited the Netherlands and Boskoop. Lots of interesting plants, but I had to let the idea of bringing some go. We are not a part of the EU (though we do have to follow most decitions of the EU without having a vote - so much for the sovereignty that was the motivation for us not joining the EU).

I have a BT and an unmarked (Most probably BT) that I bought in local nurseries. I will try the out and get some feel for how hard this is. Any Import will have to be in spring 2017. If I can find generous Norwegians with more diversity and local experience I might be able to beg for cuttings. I also have the option of searching national nurseries for more figs (there might be bornholm/precoce de dalmatie and some afghanistanica plants in nurseries in southwestern nurseries that do not ship...)

http://www.odegard-plantesalg.no/default.aspx?mod=4&m1=15
"Ficus carica Bornholm,fiken
" " afganica
" " Brown Turkey"

If, say, a Hardy Chicago fig fruited in an area with the fig wasp, what would the properties of that seed be? Completely random? Likely but not certainly similar to HC? Would its offspring also need the wasp to fruit?

-k
woodenman

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Yeah, I knew you were EEC and not EU, though I knew that you shared a lot of the rules and thought that this may be one of those occasions.

I wouldn't rely on an HC seed being anything like the parent plant - it's very much a lucky dip and you may even end up with an inedible male plant or a fig that needs the wasp.

I believe that shipping is a problem, but importing plants on foot seems to be OK as long as you're not going to be setting up a commercial plantation with it (at when sourced from the EU). http://www.toll.no/en/goods/plants-and-seeds/regulations-for-fruits-vegetables-plants-flowers-and-seeds/ says you're allowed 5 potted (house) plants. No mention of cuttings, though I guess you could stick them in a pot of compost - probably better to send them an e-mail though, but a cutting should be 'safer' than a whole soil-bound plant.
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knutinh

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodenman
Yeah, I knew you were EEC and not EU, though I knew that you shared a lot of the rules and thought that this may be one of those occasions.

I wouldn't rely on an HC seed being anything like the parent plant - it's very much a lucky dip and you may even end up with an inedible male plant or a fig that needs the wasp.



I see. So how does the fig community get the diversity and genetic improvement that tends to accompany plant cultivation?
Quote:

I believe that shipping is a problem, but importing plants on foot seems to be OK as long as you're not going to be setting up a commercial plantation with it (at when sourced from the EU). http://www.toll.no/en/goods/plants-and-seeds/regulations-for-fruits-vegetables-plants-flowers-and-seeds/ says you're allowed 5 potted (house) plants. No mention of cuttings, though I guess you could stick them in a pot of compost - probably better to send them an e-mail though, but a cutting should be 'safer' than a whole soil-bound plant.

The link below says that you are allowed to bring when travelling:
5 potted house plants
25 cut flowers
50 packs of seeds
3kg of flower buds/onions
10kg of vegetables fruits and berries

Other than that, the rule is that plant material must be accompanied by phyto sanitary certificate. Cuttings are explicitly mentioned as part of that requirement.

http://www.mattilsynet.no/planter_og_dyrking/import_av_planter_mm/Privat_import_av_planter_og_fro/regler_for_innforsel_av_planter_og_fro_mm_for_reisende_og_i_flyttelass.12600

I have two locally bought figs now ($40 a piece). One marked as ficus brown turkey, the other not marked. The first is just a long stick with some foliage, the other has dense foliage and two fruits on it. They seem to be happy behind an ad hoc transparent plastic shelter in the spring heat that we are having right now (18C in daytime, 8C at night).
woodenman

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
I think most varieties have been found in the wild and propogated rather than specifically bred, the exceptions being the UCLA varieties bred in the States and there's a European breeder around Switzerland somewhere whose name escapes me at the moment.

A link that I'd remembered that you may find useful - http://www.planetfig.com/articles/fareng2584.html

He's based in Sweden rather than Norway, but he does talk about varieties that he's tried. Not been updated since 2013 but the e-mail may still work?
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knutinh

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Posts: 22
Posted Reply with quote  #20 
image (2).jpeg 
So I ended up buying two figs, one at each of the major garden centers at $50 each.

The left one was just a stick in a pot. It fell over one weekend while I was away, so leafs had some damage, but it is coming around nicely. It is marked as "Ficus carica - Brown Turkey" and the stickers says that it needs pollinating (!), warns about needing H-3 (Oslo climate) and evenly moist soil.

The right one seems to be one year older and has two large-ish green fruit on it. Just labelled as "Ficus Carica", but I am guessing that it is a Brown Turkey as well.

Both have been repotted with mixed peat/clay/compost/leca-balls soil in (somewhat) insulated aerofoam pots with drainage holes, gravel at the bottom and get a south-southeast location up against the wall (some shelter for the rain) on a concrete slab that keeps solar heat well during the afternoon.

I am getting 'Precoce de Dalmatie', 'Petrovaca' and 'White Marseille' bare-root imported from Denmark in the spring of 2017. Guess I'll get to learn this summer (and not least winter).

Early summer has been just about as good as it will ever be over here. Temperature touching (ever so shortly) 30 degrees Celsius in early June and drought is pretty much unheard of. This means the luxury of fighting spider mites instead of slugs, but I am sure that will soon change :-)

@woodenman: yes, I have read that piece with some interest. His experience seems highly relevant to my quest. So doing in-ground figs here without special care seems to be hard. I am not sure yet if moving potted plants or sheltering in-ground plants will be my thing eventually, I will focus on getting the two potted plants that I have survive this winter.

-k
Timo

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Posts: 117
Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Your fig trees look nice in these black pots with white pebbles! I have a Brown Turkey too (English Brown Turkey). Only the brebas ripen in my climate. In your climate it will most likely be the same. This means that you will have to protect the young figlets from frost during winter. The easiest way would be to take them inside. Brown Turkeys are not that cold hardy as the nurseries say. We had a mild winter with temperatures only as low as -5°C, but my inground English Brown Turkey suffered some dieback. I will still have a nice crop of brebas though. 

Those cloudberries look delicious. I grow them also in my garden. Last year I had quite a lot of berries, but this year only one. Last week it was almost ripe and I was looking forward to taste it, but a bird picked it before I had the chance to eat it. I guess I'll have to wait one more year to taste these delicious berries again.
xenil

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Posts: 91
Posted Reply with quote  #22 
I think the most challenging thing in your climate is to choose the right variety to grow, as far as I know your summers are short and a bit wet, and not as warm like our in Hungary. You wont have problem with overwintering the trees, because there are many easy ways, you will have the problem with the fruit ripenning. In my opinion with a good choose you can grow figs even in Oslo. 
I think the earliest figs can able to ripen figs even in Norway, these are the Saint Anthony, Florea (Michurinska 10), Malta Black, Hardy Chicago, MvsB, Gino's Black. These figs can ripen figs after 70 days from fruit forming, so possibly are the earliests. I know these are hard to find varieties but if you are interested in cuttings just contact me, and we will se if i have cuttings in this winter...
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Kristian

Location:Hungary,zone 6B 

Currently growing: Freckled Beauty, Saint Anthony, Saint Maritn, Martinete (Pérola), Armenian, White Marseilles, Ronde De Bordeaux, Hardy Chicago, Marseilles Vs Black, Gino's Black, Natailna, Sal's El, Laradek Ebt, Green Michurinska, Michurinska 10 , Vagabond, Negretta, Negronne, Orsara, Dalmatie, Laradek Ebt, Adriatic Jh, Improved Celeste, Kútfeji Black, Black Plate, Deszki mézédes
Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
I will add Improved Celeste ORN ,to xenil,above list.
knutinh

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Focusing on fruiting quality and quantity. Is it the lack of heat, the rain or lack of sunshine that is the dominant factor?

I have potted my plants up against the south-southeast wall of my house where there is some shelter from the rain and on a massive concrete slab that retains heat in the evening. The idea is that black pots will give some extra heat to the soil, while the white pebble will reflect some sunlight back to the plant. Going further would be a greenhouse (or greenhouse-like) solution, but due to space constraints I would rather not.

Sunshine I cannot practically improve.
knutinh

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
One of my figs is turning purple on the underside (from green). How far away from maturing might that be?

I also have the leaves shaded by other leaves turn uellow and can be plucked off. Is that usual?

K

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doricdragons

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
I am following this thread with interest as I am in the North East of Scotland and have very similar problems to you Knutinh. I have got my first figs this year, they are in an unheated polytunnel, so they will need lots of fleece during winter still.
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NE Scotland

Young plants: Nero del Portogallo, Babits, Della Signora, Ice (Crystal?), Brown Italian, Sultane, Fingered Giant, Flat (Pogacsa) In propagation: Brown Turkey, Sphikas Unk., Ladywood Unk.

Wanted:  Gentile, Goutte d'Or, White Marseille, Longue d'Aout, Bourjasotte Gris , Blanche d'argenteuil, Ronde de Bordeaux, anything else suitable for short season area.
knutinh

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Posts: 22
Posted Reply with quote  #27 
My first ripe fig. A bit of a cheat because it was allready unripe on the tree when I bought it early this summer.

Tasted a lot better than any store bought fig I have tasted.

Lots of small figlets now forming on the branches. Guess they will not mature this season.

I will try keeping the plants alive in pots this winter, will try in ground next year if everything works out.

Have been feeding them highly diluted tomato fertilizer along with a good watering about once a week. Seems to fit our temps and moisture quite well.

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knutinh

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
So my unknown (presumed Brown Turkey) has ripened 2 nice fruit earlier this summer.

Now, I have 6 fruits on the bush, 2 of which are darkening on one side (see picture). 
IMG_0592.jpg 
Leaves have been yellowing and dropping at a modest pace. No fruit dropping.

We have been fortunate with a mild autumn so far:
weather2.png 
but not any more it seems:
weather.png
Is there any hope? Should I remove any figs? I presume that winter survival is improved by having a gradual autumn / winter adapatation.

regards
k
doricdragons

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Your weather seems very much the same as ours a lot of the time. I have got my plants in the polytunnel but it is only a couple of degrees warmer than outside, so they are wrapped up in fleece at night. I am waiting until the leaves fall off, then I will remove any figs larger than a pea.
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NE Scotland

Young plants: Nero del Portogallo, Babits, Della Signora, Ice (Crystal?), Brown Italian, Sultane, Fingered Giant, Flat (Pogacsa) In propagation: Brown Turkey, Sphikas Unk., Ladywood Unk.

Wanted:  Gentile, Goutte d'Or, White Marseille, Longue d'Aout, Bourjasotte Gris , Blanche d'argenteuil, Ronde de Bordeaux, anything else suitable for short season area.
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