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BronxFigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Please drop the abbreviations when referring to the name of a variety.  Experienced growers may know what "BT"..'MVSB"...or, 'BM" stands for, but new members, and other casual readers who are not too familiar with all the varieties might have a hard time deciphering the "code".

This forum will be read for years to come, and, varieties will come and go in popularity.  Imagine a new fig grower Google-searching for "BM".  What will show up on the screen?


Just something to consider.

Frank
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Figo

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Thanks, Frank. it's nice to have a senior member speaking up on thisp.  As a newcomer, I have struggled a bit with the abbreviations but dared not speak up for fear of being chastised. I know what is BT and BM now, not sure about MVSB yet.
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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Thx
Danny K
Marshall Tx
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Thx, glad to be here

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
The meanings of MVSB are.

M=Marseilles
the VS= the members (of this forum)name and VS is his initials
and the B=black.

Get ya one...It is a can do fig.
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BronxFigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
I know what you are going through.  You are right, and not alone.

Those veteran members that are familiar with reading, and posting on both fig forums, know the "code", and it's very easy, for ease of posting, and because of prior knowledge, to use these short-hand abbreviations to refer to varieties of figs.  On a number of occasions, I have even resorted to this shorthand, but I try to avoid its overuse.  Mea culpa.  I can only assure that this is really very innocent, and unintentional.  But even with that being said, it doesn't help the newer members.

An even more disturbing trend has emerged over the last few days.  I have read on more than a few threads, written by newer members, that they fear being criticized; chastised; afraid to offer opinions; know their place... i.e. (to keep quiet)...etc.  This is not good.  New members always bring freshness to stale, dusty subjects, and what's old to us, is brand new to many.

Please keep all this in mind.  Encourage, and clarify postings, names, suggestions for help.

***************************************************************************************************************
***************************************************************************************************************


FOR NEWER MEMBERS....

These forums are for YOU.  PLEASE, ask all your questions, and invite suggestions and comments.  These forums are the place to learn cutting-edge information about growing fig trees.  No textbooks will substitute for direct experience, and the books just repeat incorrect information.

Stay with the forums,  The learning curve is thankfully short, and most times, you will taste your efforts within a year or two.  Growing fig trees will be a very rewarding experience, and once you learn the basics, you'll never look back in regret.  Be sure of this...you might have some failures.  We all do...but turn those failures into triumphs.  ANYONE can grow a fig tree.  We were all new growers at one time.



Frank

*********************************************************************************

EDIT:


Bobby...

BT= Brown Turkey
BM= Black Madeira...Black Mission...Black Marseilles...see, that's why abbreviations are confusing.
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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Just like any other time a name is abbreviated it should only reference the full name of the subject. For example...
Quote:
I have a Takoma Violet... Further down...
TV is a Mt. Etna fig...

What is screwy is when people get lazy and never use the complete name first. I try and use my best judgment when using abbreviations, if the reader cannot figure it out from the context of the thread then I make sure to type out the extra letters.
BM stands for Black Mission as well, but only sometimes.
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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Frank, I use to feel that way until I got 2 or 3 of the same fig from different sources.  Today, I like having the abbreviations attached.  It helps identify that particular fig.  For instance, you can buy a Black Mission from Lowes or Home Depot.  But if you get a Black Mission from a forum member with the "NL" suffix then you know what to expect.  What you get from Lowes or HD might end up being Celeste or Brown Turkey.  It's kind like getting a rabbit from butcher.  If one foot is not skinned, then you know that meat is truly rabbit.  Where as if all the feet are cut off then it could be a squirrel. 

I got 2 Marseilles Blacks in my orchard. One is a VS and the other is suppose called Marseilles Black.  Turns out one is just a plain of Brown Turkey and not Marseilles Black VS.  So, I see your point and it does take some explaining but really required.
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
My vdb and rdb have fruit but cddg dropped. Gc didn't produce neither did lsug cddn looking good Dk has main crop growing lsusb is pretty good mvsb first to ripen bm loaded same with fp. Vl looks sad bmnl is misplaced same with enbt. Mbt bc is going strong. Bi is starting to Get ripe. Sc bc is a beast same with kb-g. Mf gm kind of slowed down. 
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Figluvah

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
HAHA

Dan your a bigger agitator than I am.....By FAR
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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Love it Celt!
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
It's always nice when people first 'spell it out', but that's just not always going to happen. When I first got here, I didn't know what any of the abbreviations stood for. If I wanted to know, I'd ask. Still will. People have always been very nice about explaining.

Recently someone mentioned REI (not the current thread) and I asked what that stood for. Turns out REI is the name, lol.
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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Thanks Dan- I just had an MF. LOL
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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
All my figs are BS
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Posted Reply with quote  #14 

LMAO, good one BS!
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Dennis
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BronxFigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
A few forum members correctly identified the problems which can be eliminated if the poster spells out the name, and then abbreviates further along in the message.  Then there will be no confusion.  There is no reason for anyone to have to guess the name of a fig.  If you are growing a "Brown Turkey" from Edible Landscaping, just say so and then, write "BT"-EL.  Then everyone is on the same page, especially, the NEWER MEMBERS. 


celt:  : ))))  Thank-you for the clarifications.

Thanks for the comments.

Frank
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satellitehead

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 

Frank, are you talking about abbreviating the name of the fig (i.e. BT = Brown Turkey), or are you talking about the abbreviations AFTER the name of the fig (like Marseilles Black VS)?

A lot of us will try to spell out the name at least once at the start of a post, then start abbreviating it from there on out.  Some of us type so much that it is totally impractical to sit here and type out the full name time and time again.  I totally get what you're asking and why you're asking it, but ... you're asking folks to put in a lot of extra work, in some cases.
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
SOOOO! that's what EL stands for?
Edible landscapes?
duh! I should have known!
I agree Frank, it can be very frustrating to try to figure out what the abrevs mean. so what does VS mean?
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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
VS is the abbreviation of a person's name who may not want the entire world to know who he is.

Any time you see an abbreviation at the end of a name, it's usually indicating the source of the plant or plant material. 
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Dan, Yes, "EL" stands for Edible Landscape.

Marseilles VS is my fault. I got this from Herman, when it was kind of an unknown because it was mis-labeled when Herman bought it. He felt that it was a Marseilles Black. I didn't want to confuse it with other Marseilles variants I had, so I called it Marseilles VS to distinguish it. I think most everyone selling/trading this variety has adopted this nomenclature, so that it is clear what you are getting when you order a Marseilles VS.

Similarly I have several Celestes, JN, GM, IS, 2BJS, PN, PM, AAA01, and so on. Each came from a different source, and they all vary in fruiting, etc. I could have called them #1, #2, #3, etc.  but the initials are more definitive descriptors that tell me their origin. Some of my sources do not wish to be identified (that is their choice and their right), and it is not important (in most cases) to know this information, only which ones (GM, JN, etc) are the best performing. If you ordered Celeste #1 of Celeste JN, the important thing is to be able to distinguish them  by a unique "part number".

BM could be Black Mission, of Black Madeira, Big Momma's, etc. If the first reference is spelled out, it can be abbreviated thereafter, and everyone will know what it refers to.

BT should be easily discernible if you have read more that a couple threads. ;-))
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Gina

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
BT should be easily discernible if you have read more that a couple threads. ;-))


Uh huh. ;) 

Bacillus thuringiensis (or Bt) is a Gram-positive, soil-dwelling bacterium, commonly used as a biological pesticide; alternatively, the Cry toxin may be extracted and used as a pesticide. B. thuringiensis also occurs naturally in the gut of caterpillars of various types of moths and butterflies, as well as on the dark surfaces of plants.[1]
.........................................

Bottom line - if you want to know what something means, ask. No one will bite your head off. :)
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satellitehead

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
I dunno, Gina, I haven't had any brains in a while, I can feel the cravings coming on.... ;)
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
LOL. 

Looking for those soft, juicy, dark red centers again, eh? ;)
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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
I'm in trouble, my forum name is BLB uh oh
Nichole

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
I have asked what abbreviations stood for and did not get any snarky answers. I find everyone to be quite helpful and kind to my novice questions.

If the full name of the fig gets used at least once, I can generally figure it out when abbreviations are then used. And if the full name is used at least once it will come up in a search when someone plugs in a name of a fig they are wanting more info on. I've been using the search option a lot.
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satellitehead

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
And I, for one, love you for that, Nichole!
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Jason
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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
I know some of you guys were serious about this.  I hope I didn't upset anyone with my comment.  I was just having a little fun.  

Gina your recommendation of spelling out the name first then abbreviate is proper English 101.  At least that's how I was taught.  But in this new information age texting and abbreviating will one day be quite common.  cheers,
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Dennis
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Gina

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Gina your recommendation of spelling out the name first then abbreviate is proper English 101. At least that's how I was taught. But in this new information age texting and abbreviating will one day be quite common. cheers,


I agree with this, but it was someone else (Brent) who first expressed that. I'd be happy to take the credit however. ;)
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Gr8Figs

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
While we're in the gripe mode,how about requiring members to have their zone and location listed in their posts.
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Posted Reply with quote  #29 

it's a cultural thing. i know we should be politically correct and cater to everyone who comes here.. but sooner or later they will pick up. learning how things work makes them feel like they belong. if they don't want to put in the effort.. oh well. i'm sure by reading the content, everyone, everyone who's been here for awhile and keep up, can tell if we are talking about Black Madeira or Black Mission.

i'm tired of being politically corret.. urgh.. yes, i call myself american, not korean american.. all the other korean americans can go take a dive.
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***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Traditionally in literature or writing of any kind the practice is to write out the name once and use abbreviations after that. Perhaps we could all adopt that practice.
Or vgrd and frthb, then ytrfd, until mnyt and we'll all knjyt.
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Nichole

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgginva

Or vgrd and frthb, then ytrfd, until mnyt and we'll all knjyt.


hah!
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BronxFigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
Take a look at postings # 2...#3... and #4.  Look carefully at their forum names, when they joined the forum, and the content of their postings.  Now, scroll down all 32 of the postings and read the comments.  Do you see their names again? Have they re-posted on this thread?  Have any ideas why they haven't joined in this discussion?

They have been mocked, and made to look ridiculous.  This is not some exclusive clique.

Frank
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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Frank, I sure hope that no one felt mocked or ridiculed. Sometimes the old timers like to have a little lighthearted fun at the expense of one another. All are welcome here and my wish is for all to feel at home. So new comers join in and feel welcome. Ask and you shall receive, an answer to a question that is, no matter how simplistic. And know that if someone pokes a little fun at you it's because we like you.
"gene"
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BLB

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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
I've been in groups with cliques and know how that operates. No one here, at least in this thread is being cliqueish in my opinion, just having a little fun. Of course it is courteous and right to identitfy a variety by it's full name and then abreviate. Some don't do it simply because life is busy these days and short cuts are taken at most opportunities. There is no conspiracy to eliminate or belittle new members. That would be counter productive to the purpose of this forum. And those members you cited above certainly aren't being mocked in any way that I can see. As a rule, everyone here is pretty nice to everyone else and when someone asks for clarification they usually get it. I try to answer questions of newbies as often as I can and so do many others. The issue of abreviations isn't really a critical issue in my mind as in most cases the clarification is within the thread somewhere. Frank, relax. 
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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
Yeah, it's not just this forum.  Every forum I've ever been in uses abbreviations.  I was lost in the wine making forum for a long time due to the use of shortcuts.  Took me a long time to find out how to make Al's gritty mix on the garden forum for containers, because i just didn't understand all the abbreviations!  Once you hang around for a while, you get it!  Just takes time.

I find google and other web search engines to be my best friend often!

My newest interest is learning to grow mushrooms.  Mainly because we have no forests here to forge into, but wow!  Talk about abbreviations..and not just that.  Words!  Whole Words I never heard of! 

I don't think anyone loses interest in a subject because of abbreviations.  Most newbies don't post much because they just began and some don't even have a fig to post a question about.  Eventually after they hang around they start posting!

It just takes time.........  :-)
Suzi
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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
Personally I will continue to do what I've been doing and not change anything.

I will not appease to everyones needs. I have never ( at least I don't remember ) mocked or ridiculed anyone that came here and asked a question.
If anything, for the most part I/we bend over backwards to help anyone and everyone, old and new.

I don't know where Frank is coming from with this.
landscapewitch

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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
Suzi,
Just for fun and not related there are mushrooms in the desert!
And, on the subject, I'm new but the abbreviations are just part of the learning curve and that's fine. Also, as Jon reiterated, many of the people indicated by the initials wish to retain their privacy.
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Alexis
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rafed

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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
I just want to know what kind of mushrooms Suzi is trying to grow,Hmmm?
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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
Rafed, the hallucinogenic kind... :-))  You know, one makes you tall, and one makes you small..........  Actually, the eating kind, sauteed and served with steak!

And Alexis, what kind and where? 
Suzi
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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
I think this is where you will be starting right Suzi? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stropharia_rugosoannulata. Notice this is one fungi that can attack nematodes in the garden as well.
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Posted Reply with quote  #41 
Wow Brent!

I love the simple name... wine cap!  Seems like we could all grow that one.  It's on my wish list!

Suzi
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Posted Reply with quote  #42 
I can see where Frank is coming from as far as the abbreviations but like suzi said, you stick around long enough and you'll pick up on them and what people are saying. This forum has been nothing but a true wealth of information about fig trees to me that I really could never have found on my own. Maybe someone could could make a "master list" of abbreviations and post it?
Thanks for all the help!
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Posted Reply with quote  #43 
Suzi,
These! I saw them growing in eastern New Mexico. Wouldn't eat 'em myself...it is a Podaxis I think
And Saudi and the area are famous for truffles.

Attached Images
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Alexis
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Posted Reply with quote  #44 
I've always just asked if I don't understand something and after awhile, things start to make sense and if they don't, I ask again.

No one, well one person, has been ugly to me and have gladly answered my questions.  I appreciate that very much.

I'm used to people giving me smart-aleck answers, anyway.  I enjoy the messing around here.

noss
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Posted Reply with quote  #45 
As a newcomer, I have hesitated to wade into a discussion like this.  I am too conscious of my position.

However, something needs to be clarified. It is not about 'if you don't know, just ask and someone will answer'.  I'm sure that works but think about this. If eventually everyone only types 'BT' and not 'Brown Turkey', someday someone comes in here and wants find out more about Brown Turkey, he types Brown Turkey in the search function and it turns up zero match. He has missed all the Brown Turkey information because they are all written as BT.  Then even if he later knows Bown Turkey is written BT here and he types BT into the search box, guess what? BT is unsearchable.  Even VdB is unsearchable.

It is therefore not about newcomers not asking and also not about if people hang around long enough they will know what the short forms mean but rather, in the long term, these shortforms can potentially undermine the purpose of this forum, which is to provide searchable fig info for everyone interested in figs.

I can understand the defensive reactions from people used to these abbreviations.  We, and I say we because I am like that too, don't particularly like to be told to change or to do what we don't like to do.  We are like that, especially when we think there is really no big issue.

Someone has provided a hybrid solution, ie, exercise a bit of discipline, begin your message spelling out the name in full first and after that, it can all be in abbreviations.  Shouldn't be too difficult I would think but this small effort should go a long way.

Just my humble 2 cents. Peace.
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rafed

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Posted Reply with quote  #46 
I have helped anyone and everyone in every way, shape or form.
I have given out plants and cuttings and not ask for a dime, If anything, I have told the person or persons to dondate the cost of shipping to a charity of their choice. A couple dollars won't make or break me.

I have tried to be good member yet I've had my moments here as well. I have had newcomers and old just PM or email me out of the blue and responded to their needs or questions with respect!!! I have welcomed newcomers with open arms ( provided they INTRODUCED THEIR SELF ).

I have been here for three years and yet I don't consider myself as being a senior member. Nor do I consider myself superior. I am privileged to be here, just plain and simple.

In my earlier response I made clear of myself and my intentions. I will stand my grounds and I will stand tall.

I will not appease to everyones needs.

Newcomers, it is customary to introduce yourself hang around here and post some threads and try to get get liked before you make such a BOLD comment.

This is just my 2 cents!!
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Posted Reply with quote  #47 
Nice points Figo.....

" Newcomers, it is customary to introduce yourself hang around here and post some threads and try to get get liked before you make such a BOLD comment. "

Wot? What is the post minimum for being able to speak your mind?
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rafed

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Posted Reply with quote  #48 
There is no post minimum!!
I too am speaking my mind!! Who are they to come and try and change what's being running smoothly up until now?

And Yes, it is customary to introduce yourself first!!!
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Posted Reply with quote  #49 
The point being... There have been too many people who come on and post a few times and ask for cuttings, make comments or talk without knowing any better.

I would say 70% of the members are lurkers and come out of the woodwork when they see something they like. Usually see a fig they like and say ' ooh put me on the list!'

The people who experiment, track their findings and publish what they record are the ones who help members the most in understanding figs.

If there was list of most helpful, understanding and thoughtful people here, Rafed would be near the top. So if this is bothering him this much, I would take heed.

Contributions are worth more than money here. As I have stated before, figs are a hobby and for some they are supplemental income.  This is a friendly forum and people will help out.  But people have to relax and take deep breaths.

Last time I checked we are talking about FIGS, not DEFCON 1!
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Dominick
Zone 6a-MA
springlakenj

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Posts: 281
Posted Reply with quote  #50 
Frank- nice thread!
I for one, will do my best to use the name first, then initials in a post. The search function can be challenging for us novices (I just learned how to post pics yesterday thanks to a member's thread) when you are not sure of the words to use in your search. It makes sense to me.
I already have my town, state and zone in my signature, which I personally think is very helpful.
Dominick, I agree, everyone needs to take a breath and not take things so personally, the saltiest veteran, the shiniest rookie and everyone in between.
We all have opinions and I am thankful there is such an excellent resource- this forum and such expert helpful people.
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John G. Spring Lake Hts, NJ Zone 7A

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